EOS R official video specs discussion

[mercer]

3 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

True, except that other manufacturers are putting better specs in their similar sized cameras. No one is expecting Alexa quality from a consumer mirror less. People aren't annoyed because it doesn't stack up against a cinema camera, people are annoyed because canon lacks features that others in the same class have have for some time now.

The problem is that the biggest critics were never going to buy one anyway. And if you look at the video specs, other than the 4K crop and no IBIS, the camera is pretty damn good and beats a lot of other camera’s offerings. 

[Django]

I knew all hell was gonna break lose today and everybody is entitled their opinions but calling people morons for being interested in purchasing this camera, or calling it a rip-off is just wrong & uncalled for. People have the right to be interested in this camera and nobody is forcing them to buy it. We all have different needs & backgrounds. So let's just all settlle down shall we?

Canon hinted at 2 other bodies coming. My guess is they're IBIS & next-gen sensor tech is still in R&D but they wanted to respond quickly to Nikon and this is what came out of it. This is their first effort, not the end all be all. I was expecting far worst actually, and at a higher price. Not trying to make excuses either, the severe 4k crop blows as is the HFR & lack of IBIS. They did make up for it in other parts (Eye AF, DPAF + Focus guide MF, 10-bit out, Control ring, VariND adapter etc) and the lens line-up is pretty  impressive. 

Nikon have I feel a much better rounded product with no major flaws, but it kinda lacks in flavor / fun-factor, especially the lenses. Feels like a more rugged industrial Sony clone. Can't say i find myself terribly excited about it even though i know it's the superior tool. As always I'll reserve final judgement until I try these out in person but the jury is still out as far as i'm concerned, the lens system being the real tipping point for me.

[Robert Collins]

5 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Guess you never read any Shakespeare.  Some mouth on you Mercer - geesh. 

The frustrating part for me is you know damn well Canon *could have* done better with this one.  No 4k60?  No 1080p120?  The a6000 had the latter, and the 2 year old 1dxII had the former upon release.  I always have considered myself a Canon person at heart - just so pissed they're holding back - they're not listening to customers like Sony and it shows.  Canon needs a shake-up in the upper mgmt/marketing area more than anything else.  Push the damn envelope.  Had this been released in 2014 there would be a lot less complaining.  Not very many Canon non-cinema bodies have an EVF - and it's tough to see the back of the body in good light (and I'm tired of loupes and heavy external EVFs).  Only one we had was the XC10 - I had it for a couple of months and just didn't love the image.  So yeah - a few of us were serious buyers and looking forward to this, and mostly frustrated that Canon thinks they know better than we (the collective consumer).

Actually I dont think we really 'know this.' In fact nearly all the shortfall in performance seems to point to Canon being unable to pull data off the sensor fast enough - heavily cropped 4k, rolling shutter in cropped 4k, no 1080 120p, relatively poor fps in photos, no continuous eye focus etc... And the problem with mirrorless is that it is very sensor dependent. If Canon is behind here and cant catch up, this will be a bigger problem long term than simply starting with an underwhelming entry level camera.

[Sage]

7 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Alexa quality from a consumer mirror less

Emotive Color

[Andrew Reid]

Just now, Sage said:

Emotive Color

Please, no more advertising in unrelated threads.

[forofilms]

Just now, mercer said:

The problem is that the biggest critics were never going to buy one anyway. And if you look at the video specs, other than the 4K crop and no IBIS, the camera is pretty damn good and beats a lot of other camera’s offerings. 

Wrong. I would have bought one if not for the crop. I bet you Andrew would have as well. The crop and lack of 120fps is a joke in 2018. I could even forgive the lack of 4k60p and extra memory slot. But not the crop and 120....

[shorty15]

11 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Hoo boy.  Yeah, it's very inconspicuous to roll up with a fully rigged C200 - no one would ever think you're not shooting video there pal.  It's nice to have a small camera where the situation requires it - gimbal work is much easier among 1000 other reasons.  Poor analogy too by the way - you can easily create stunning shots with a small mirrorless camera - I mean we're talking about max 8.3 megapixel 4x.  I'll bet your c200 is overkill for most of what we want to use video cameras for really.  Paid gigs, sure.  Very limiting though when it comes to being a wallflower - often times people think I'm shooting stills and I'm rolling video.

Tell me why, pray tell *should* it be an afterthought?  Because you think so?  Oh yeah, no everyone has $7k to splash down on a c200....

Well in LA, you still get hassled for trying to shoot with a DSLR if you have no permits. Plus once you rig the camera out with a wireless follow focus, matte box, and all the other accessories needed to do a proper video shoot, the camera hardly looks like a DSLR anymore. I've never seen a DSLR or mirrorless video shoot that was under the radar enough to not draw attention from the authorities. I never said you can't create good shots with a mirrorless camera. I've done it. I'm simply saying that people need to stop throwing a fit whenever a camera that is clearly designed for photography, doesn't have the video specs they are looking for. Its a stills camera with video thrown in. The video mode will always be somewhat bricked. No one complains when video cameras suck at taking stills. Hell most of them can't take stills at all. 

Yes, I'm advocating buying the right tool for the job. Yes, that costs a lot of money sometimes. If you are a serious video shooter, you need to buy a camera with that in mind. If you are a video hobbyist, then a GH5 and an A7SII should be more than sufficient. 

[Sage]

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Please, no more advertising in unrelated threads.

Right. Didn't intend it as advertising, just a joke (completely useless to Canon users), but I get you.

[shorty15]

17 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

True, except that other manufacturers are putting better specs in their similar sized cameras. No one is expecting Alexa quality from a consumer mirror less. People aren't annoyed because it doesn't stack up against a cinema camera, people are annoyed because canon lacks features that others in the same class have have for some time now.

So buy those competing cameras. Canon clearly has no interest in hybrid cameras. They make very good stills cameras and they make very good video cameras. They have decided to create specific products for those mediums and feel that serious video shooters are better served by their Cinema line.  Time to move on. Panasonic and Sony have hybrid shooters covered. 

[KnightsFan]

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

The problem is that the biggest critics were never going to buy one anyway. And if you look at the video specs, other than the 4K crop and no IBIS, the camera is pretty damn good and beats a lot of other camera’s offerings. 

I can't speak to other critics. I was optimistic earlier in this thread, before the specs came out, since I've liked every canon I've shot with.

the 4K crop is a deal breaker. The only reason I'd upgrade from my apsc is to get full frame. I shoot photos an video, sometimes in quick succession. I can't have my current lens behave differently depending on the mode I'm in. I'd rather just stick with apsc. If I didn't shoot any video then it wouldn't matter to me, of course, but most members on eoshd care about video. 120 fps being in 720 is also a downgrade for me, and that's a feature I've used on almost every project in the past year an a half.

so on the other hand I see the Nikon z6, which has much more of what I need, for less money. I'm not mad at canon or anythin stupid like that, but for me it is very clear that the eos r is not worth the money.

1 minute ago, shorty15 said:

So buy those competing cameras. Canon clearly has no interest in hybrid cameras. Time to move on. Panasonic and Sony have you covered. 

yeah, unfortunately they don't. If I see a Sony or Panasonic (or canon) that looks like a worthwhile upgrade, I will! I'm pretty happy with what I've got at the moment, I just like keeping up with the news.

 

[mercer]

23 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Guess you never read any Shakespeare.  Some mouth on you Mercer - geesh. 

The frustrating part for me is you know damn well Canon *could have* done better with this one.  No 4k60?  No 1080p120?  The a6000 had the latter, and the 2 year old 1dxII had the former upon release.  I always have considered myself a Canon person at heart - just so pissed they're holding back - they're not listening to customers like Sony and it shows.  Canon needs a shake-up in the upper mgmt/marketing area more than anything else.  Push the damn envelope.  Had this been released in 2014 there would be a lot less complaining.  Not very many Canon non-cinema bodies have an EVF - and it's tough to see the back of the body in good light (and I'm tired of loupes and heavy external EVFs).  Only one we had was the XC10 - I had it for a couple of months and just didn't love the image.  So yeah - a few of us were serious buyers and looking forward to this, and mostly frustrated that Canon thinks they know better than we (the collective consumer).

Sorry, I’m feeling feisty today.

But yeah I’m not gonna lie and say I love this camera, but I can’t say it doesn’t intrigue me a little and it does have a bunch of pluses.

As far as 4K 60p... well that was never going to happen, so I can hardly consider that a flaw. The a6000 doesn’t have 120p in 1080p but yes I get your point, 120p would have been a good move, although I would rarely use it. 

People keep saying that Canon intentionally cripples their cameras but I’m not so sure it’s intentional. They have delivered DPAF into their cheapest consumer DSLRs. But more importantly, they’re here to make money and I don’t know if I buy the argument that Canon thinks they are hurting their Cinema line by not including features in their consumer line. Why would Canon not want to capitalize off of one of their biggest markets... hobbyist/enthusiasts?

Most likely, they don’t have the processing speed to accommodate no crop in this body without putting a weird 4K time limit of 10 minutes on the recordings. Look at Fuji, even with a minor crop of S35mm, they still have a time limit.

[BTM_Pix]

Verily, if we are to bring forth The Bard into the discussion....

[Dan Sherman]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

Most likely, they don’t have the processing speed to accommodate no crop in this body without putting a weird 4K time limit of 10 minutes on the recordings. Look at Fuji, even with a minor crop of S35mm, they still have a time limit.

Time limits are usually put in place for two reasons. 

• To skirt some retarded EU import tax laws
• Thermal safeguard.

 

[jhnkng]

43 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

Time limits are usually put in place for two reasons. 

• To skirt some retarded EU import tax laws
• Thermal safeguard.

 

For Fuji at least the 10min limit is thermal protection for the battery, hence the extended time with the battery grip (which houses two extra batteries.) Sometimes I wish Fuji would change their batteries, but then I have 10 of them now...

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

 

the 4K crop is a deal breaker. The only reason I'd upgrade from my apsc is to get full frame. I shoot photos an video, sometimes in quick succession. I can't have my current lens behave differently depending on the mode I'm in. I'd rather just stick with apsc. 

 

I just got an X-H1 for this very reason — I have an upcoming job where for every stills shot they needed a motion equivalent, and we’re working in real locations around people working so it was just easier to have a camera that can handle both stills and motion in exactly the same way. I previously did a similar job where I shot with my D800 and C100mk2, and the switching back and forth did my head in. 

[Django]

I guess you were shooting 1080p because XH1 has a 4K crop. In fact it's almost the exact same crop (1.7x). It's less noticeable with native lenses cuz they're made for APS-C but it wouldn't be the ideal candidate for that type of job, again unless you're shooting 1080p in which case the EOS R would also not give you a crop in between stills/video.

 

[OliKMIA]

2 hours ago, shorty15 said:

Why are people so pissed off about this camera? This is a photography camera. Its designed to take stills. Video is and should be an afterthought. Why are people using mirrorless cameras for video work? The form factor sucks.

This place is all about the DSLR/small video camera revolution, carrying a C100 is just not and option for obvious reasons. DSRL video has many advantages:

- Small and lightweight, great for travel and low profile stuff (nature, urban, )
- FF instead of S35 sensor (DOF, better low light performances)
- Can fit on a small gimbal
- Way less expensive than pro camera
- Ability to conveniently switch between video and still mode instead of carrying two cameras

 

1 hour ago, Django said:

I knew all hell was gonna break lose today and everybody is entitled their opinions but calling people morons for being interested in purchasing this camera, or calling it a rip-off is just wrong & uncalled for. People have the right to be interested in this camera and nobody is forcing them to buy it. We all have different needs & backgrounds. So let's just all settlle down shall we?

+1, nothing wrong if people like this camera. Good for them. Everybody has different needs.

[KnightsFan]

14 minutes ago, Django said:

I guess you were shooting 1080p because XH1 has a 4K crop. In fact it's almost the exact same crop (1.7x). It's less noticeable with native lenses cuz they're made for APS-C but it wouldn't be the ideal candidate for that type of job, again unless you're shooting 1080p in which case the EOS R would also not give you a crop in between stills/video.

 

Yeah, the problem I have with the crop is switching back and forth, not that it's there. It's easy enough to take an apsc photo and then take an apsc (or slightly smaller) video. It's a lot harder to take a full frame photo, and then immediately take an apsc video on the same lens at the same event.

Of course, i could take cropped photos so that they match the video but then why get ff at all?

[wolf33d]

@mercer fair enough, there is for sure too much bashing/trolling on the web, for camera and everything else, and some people have the hobby of doing that for doing it. 

I am in the market for a FF mirrorless after I returned the A7III waiting for Nikon, Canon, A7S3 and now Panasonic seing what they have to offer. I am bashing Canon because I am heavily frustrated and disappointed by their way of doing things. I am overly reacting of course who cares it’s a camera... but that’s a forum and I am insulting a brand not someone so that’s fine :).

All those discussions might be seen by canon at some point. It’s like voting for your country you know. As an individual you might think it changes nothing to vote, but if everybody does it then ...

 

[Django]

3 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Yeah, the problem I have with the crop is switching back and forth, not that it's there. It's easy enough to take an apsc photo and then take an apsc (or slightly smaller) video. It's a lot harder to take a full frame photo, and then immediately take an apsc video on the same lens at the same event.

Of course, i could take cropped photos so that they match the video but then why get ff at all?

 

Only workaround is simply to shoot 1080p. FF stills & video. Obviously not the camera for FF 4K. That boat sailed (or should i say sunk) about 20 hours ago!

[froess]

So underwhelming... I was hopeful as all of us were for a good camera from canon. We're still complaining about canon for how long now? When will we learn...