EOS R official video specs discussion

[mkabi]

"nothing to see here... move along...."

There are so many threads for this crappy cam... I can't even remember where I last posted about how disappointed I am in the rumored specs... now that its become reality, I'm not really surprised...

You know what I've learned over the years.... especially about Canon... Do not believe the hype!!!

Its always a let down...

Even the rumored pro-mirrorless thats coming in 6 months...

You know what I think... I think that they don't know how to get rid of the crop...

In fact, I predict that they will release a 50MP Mirrorless in 6 months with a greater crop (what is that? a 2.3 crop?)... Mark my word... may be 1080/120p... BUT... I also bet that they will create a 0.7 focal reducer to counter the crops (their half-assed solution to a dumb problem). I think there was a patent posted on Canonrumors about a focal reducer for mirrorless... need to fish that one out.... bah... someone else can do that...

[MdB]

Just now, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but they seem to just Half-Ass everything as of late and still want top dollar! God there seems to be no end to it. It's not rage as much as serious frustration. God they had a chance to Kill everyone on this, but NO!

Top dollar? You were expecting better than 1DX II performance in a $2.3k camera? It is significantly cheaper than the 1DX (1/3) a grand cheaper than the 5D IV, but eclipses them both in video (1DX does have some advantages). But then look at the C line, the C200 doesn't have 10bit. It has a similar sized sensor area for video (somewhat bigger) but also has Log, DPAF, EVF, ND filters etc. This is not 'that' far off a C200, for $2.3k. Why all the hand wringing? It's not a terrible camera. If you can't do something decent on this I doubt a full frame is going to save you (I don't mean 'you' specifically, I mean it in a general sense). Blackmagic S35 sensors aren't quite S35. Nobody complained when Canon APS-C is 1.6x crop vs 1.5x crop, everybody just thinks it's the same. The minor difference here is just that, minor. 

Let me ask you this: Canon release a brand new 'C50' or maybe 'C100 III'. It has a 1.7x 8MP 'close to' S35 4K sensor. It does 4K 10bit out with C-Log, but still only has 8bit internal. Has ND filters. It has the best EVF and LCD to date on any C-series camera. Has DPAF across the whole frame with touch selection, peaking, DPAF focus aids and more. Fits really well on a Gimbal too. What would you think is a reasonable price for that camera? $50? Total rubbish wouldn't wipe you butt with it? 

[webrunner5]

It is trying to compete with the Sony A7 mk III. Hell that camera IS better for video than a 1DX mk II, and it is a 1/3 the price. Hell this isn't 2010 anymore. It doesn't make a shit what Canon has. They are so far behind it isn't funny. They are living on their Past achievements. Sony is out to kill, and it seems Nikon is also. Canon better wake the hell up, it days have passed..

It is suppose to be a FF camera. Make the God Damn thing FF! How hard is that. Apparently for Canon, it's pretty much Impossible it seems.

[MdB]

3 minutes ago, mkabi said:

You know what I've learned over the years.... especially about Canon... Do not believe the hype!!!

 

3 minutes ago, mkabi said:

I can't even remember where I last posted about how disappointed I am in the rumored specs... now that its become reality, I'm not really surprised...

Seems to me there was no hype. Hype perhaps that it was going to be mega disappointing? 

4 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Its always a let down...

You thought it was crap before and now think it's what? Where is the let down?

4 minutes ago, mkabi said:

You know what I think... I think that they don't know how to get rid of the crop...

At least something we can agree on. Sony do. Samsung did. Nobody else has what it takes at the moment. Canon steadfastly use their own sensors (except in compacts). When they design them for video they make them to the right pixel dimensions. When they make hybrids, there's a crop. 

7 minutes ago, mkabi said:

In fact, I predict that they will release a 50MP Mirrorless in 6 months with a greater crop (what is that? a 2.3 crop?)... Mark my word...

5DSR II sensor. Definitely. Do you think that will be a video-centric model? Do Sony and Nikon do video centric models with massive MP counts? Also it won't be 50MP, more like 60MP. Will be a scaled up version of the M50 sensor. If that uses the same area for the crop, I dunno what that works out to 3x maybe? It's about 1" on the M50. It will be about as good in video as the 5DSR is...

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

Hell that camera IS better for video than a 1DX mk II, and it is a 1/3 the price.

Is it? Well looks like you have a winner. Buy three  

I had the A7 III, couldn't sell it fast enough. At least I made a few bucks on it because of the queue to get one (not scalping either, still well below retail). Sold within 10 minutes. 

I will buy this R. I have zero doubt I prefer it over the A7 III and haven't even used it yet. 

Your experience may be different. 

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Hell this isn't 2010 anymore. It doesn't make a shit what Canon has. They are so far behind it isn't funny. They are living on their Past achievements. Sony is out to kill, and it seems Nikon is also. Canon better wake the hell up, it days have passed..

Sorry does the A7 III have 10bit? 3.6MP EVF? 2.1MP LCD. Usable touch interface? Good colour? All-I internal codec? Dual pixel AF? Fully articulated screen? 

WHY are you living in 2005 SONY?!

Seriously don't get the rage. 

7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

t is suppose to be a FF camera. Make the God Damn thing FF! How hard is that.

It sure is. Apparently it is quite hard. RED crop in different resolutions. So do Arri. But lets all cut ourselves because a $2k Canon (we were never going to buy anyway) does too

[webrunner5]

30 minutes ago, MdB said:

 

Seems to me there was no hype. Hype perhaps that it was going to be mega disappointing? 

You thought it was crap before and now think it's what? Where is the let down?

At least something we can agree on. Sony do. Samsung did. Nobody else has what it takes at the moment. Canon steadfastly use their own sensors (except in compacts). When they design them for video they make them to the right pixel dimensions. When they make hybrids, there's a crop. 

5DSR II sensor. Definitely. Do you think that will be a video-centric model? Do Sony and Nikon do video centric models with massive MP counts? Also it won't be 50MP, more like 60MP. Will be a scaled up version of the M50 sensor. If that uses the same area for the crop, I dunno what that works out to 3x maybe? It's about 1" on the M50. It will be about as good in video as the 5DSR is...

Is it? Well looks like you have a winner. Buy three  

I had the A7 III, couldn't sell it fast enough. At least I made a few bucks on it because of the queue to get one (not scalping either, still well below retail). Sold within 10 minutes. 

I will buy this R. I have zero doubt I prefer it over the A7 III and haven't even used it yet. 

Your experience may be different. 

Sorry does the A7 III have 10bit? 3.6MP EVF? 2.1MP LCD. Usable touch interface? Good colour? All-I internal codec? Dual pixel AF? Fully articulated screen? 

WHY are you living in 2005 SONY?!

Seriously don't get the rage. 

 

WHY are you living in 2005 SONY?!

Well I don't have the money to piss away on over hyped, under delivering toys. Seems to me the EOS R has it in spades. Sort of like legalized rape.

As you can tell, I am Not buying one LoL. ?

 

[MdB]

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I don't have the money to piss away on over hyped, under delivering toys. Seems to me the EOS R has it in spades. Sort of like legalized rape.

So what ever will you use? I think they all seem like over hyped, under delivering toys (except the BMP4K). And of those toys, because that's all any of them are, the Canon suits me best. 

[webrunner5]

19 minutes ago, MdB said:

So what ever will you use? I think they all seem like over hyped, under delivering toys (except the BMP4K). And of those toys, because that's all any of them are, the Canon suits me best. 

You know that is funny you ask. I was just thinking yesterday that I may just get out of the Video thing altogether. Even sell my Sony stuff. Too much hassle, too much cost. I am running out of time at my age. I need to just get on the road and go. And Not be worried about video at all. Take a few photos with my Smartphone and enjoy nature unburdened. Hell you can't get anyone to really watch a video. Passing photos around maybe. So why bother. I remember what it looked like, hardly anyone else will care, not video wise.

And if I would go new. It would be with the BMP4K. It is cheap, and it is pure. Actually it will have the best output of them all if done right by the operator. I don't need a 100 gizmo's on a camera. Hell maybe I don't even Need any camera old or new LoL.

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, jonpais said:

Not necessarily. The Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM has a T stop of 1.5. Likewise the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM.

There are F1.4 lenses with a T stop of T1.5
 

12 hours ago, Snowbro said:

At least they have the shutter come down and lock when you change the lens

True. Might be the only feature from the EOS R I wish others had?
 

12 hours ago, Shield3 said:

On a different note - anyone think the price of the 28-70 F/2 is a tad high?  $3k?  Keep in mind one cannot adapt this to *any* other body.  No Canon EOS Cinema, 5dIV, ID, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, etc.  It's native "R" mount.

Perfect then to keep you locked to EOS R system!

Oh, maybe that Canon's plan....

Anyway that f2 FF zoom is heavy and MASSIVE .

 

[Snowbro]

1 minute ago, IronFilm said:

There are F1.4 lenses with a T stop of T1.5
 

True. Might be the only feature from the EOS R I wish others had?
 

That and the variable ND adapter, but none for using the new mirrorless lenses lol..

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, Nautical said:

Has anyone heard anything about an EF to Z mount adaptor? Even just a dumb mechanical adaptor for the Z6?   

After extensive couples therapy I have decided my differences with Canon are irreconcilable.  Its time for the divorce and splitting up possessions.  I have a lot of Canon lenses (the furniture) and would prefer to not outlay the replacement costs in the short run. Not personally a fan of Sony/Panasonic color (although I respect them for moving the industry and admittedly they are getting much better each iteration on color), but the Z6 body looks very interesting. I am not looking to get married again on lenses until the industry shakes out a little more over the next couple years.   I suspect there will be some degree of carnage in a consolidating industry and I am not sure who will survive or have the best platform.  Anyway, looking to dip my toes in Nikon land without going full bore.

The best thing Nikon could do next is license their new Z mount to a third party to specifically build an EF adapter. 

(as would be weird for Nikon to do that themselves! But would be bold of them to do so.... wouldn't mind them if they did! :-o )

9 hours ago, Drew Allegre said:

But Nikon kind of got off of their asses.  Just go back to 2008 and look at the 5DII vs the D700.  The D700 was a far more advanced stills camera.  5DII used essentially the same AF system as the original 5D and added a 21mp sensor that tended to show pattern noise in the blacks.  The D700 had a whopping 51 AF points, better weather sealing, a great auto ISO implementation (would take Canon years to replicate that), an arguably better performing sensor.  Oh, the 5DII could shoot video...and the rest is history.  But the point is, Canon has been performing like this for at least a decade.  They just happen to make good enough cameras and have an outstanding EF lens ecosystem.

Not just the 5Dmk2
Look at the 5Dmk3 vs the D800 or D750, Canon is waaaaaay behind as a stills camera. 
Or *any* Canon APS-C vs a D5x00/D7x00/D500!

 

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, mercer said:

The problem is that the biggest critics were never going to buy one anyway. And if you look at the video specs, other than the 4K crop and no IBIS, the camera is pretty damn good and beats a lot of other camera’s offerings. 

To summarize. if we ignore:

This big missing spec. 
This other big missing spec. 
This lack lasture spec. 
This omission. 
And a few other odds and ends.

Then.... Canon made a "pretty darn good camera" which beats many others from 2015!

[gelaxstudio]

Today ， every other brand kill canon，even fuji do far better video than some Canon C series  Cameras

Soon panasonic will join the FF war and give us a great FF camera with tones of nice 4K video Features

Just forget Canon , jumpship to other brand that offer what you need，even Canon is dead now，nobody will feel  that is a pity！

Stop wasting  your time ，guys

 

[Shield3]

4 hours ago, MdB said:

Let me ask you this: Canon release a brand new 'C50' or maybe 'C100 III'. It has a 1.7x 8MP 'close to' S35 4K sensor. It does 4K 10bit out with C-Log, but still only has 8bit internal. Has ND filters.

But if you go with native R lenses, you don't have the ND filters.  Like if I kicked in the 3k for the 28-70 F/2 - I'm still either using a matte box with drop in filters or screwing some on the end.  The ND adapter is only for adapting EF lenses.  Or did I miss something?

[JurijTurnsek]

You did not miss anything.

If you were a Sony user, however, you could move up-market and get built in ND filters for you E-mount glass. RF-mount glass is stuck in "positive future predictions for a company famous for crippling products".

[MdB]

16 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

But if you go with native R lenses, you don't have the ND filters.  Like if I kicked in the 3k for the 28-70 F/2 - I'm still either using a matte box with drop in filters or screwing some on the end.  The ND adapter is only for adapting EF lenses.  Or did I miss something?

Sure didn't. That is one thing that is kind of annoying for sure. Only works with adapted lenses. I don't know how that means much in my hypothetical C50 / C100 III? I was just presenting the same camera in a slightly different guise for an alternative context. 

[Robert Collins]

All getting very Heath Robinson.According to Jordan Drake - adapting an APSC 10-18 lens to a new full frame mirrorless camera is going to be a 'thing' for bloggers....

[Oliver Daniel]

10 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The X-T3 is about to drop and looks amazing. 4K 60p 10bit internal Super 35mm. That is a first and I am amazed the company that showed ZERO interest in video until only about 2 years ago has been the one to do it.

The 28-70 F2 in Caleb's picture above, is a valid size comparison to me. He knows he's not comparing like for like, it' just what he had on him and it's a good size comparison because we're familiar with the size of the GH5.

The 28-70 is absolutely enormous and mega heavy. Nearly 2kg like the old BMCC.

Canon can fool their customers but they can't fool physics

I can see it in 4 years time...

Panasonic, Sony and (maybe) Fuji all release full frame 8k cameras with 6k 100fps, great AF, 10 bit 4:2:2, no crop etc (and they cook your dinner and brush your hair). 

Canon FINALLY announce the EOS-R Mk. II with a world first internal full frame RAW!! (but the RAW is 720p only and doesn't work with DPAF. It will only work in higher res if you're filming a cow or a sheep on Sunday afternoons). ???

[mercer]

The fact of the matter is this... 95% of the people who will buy this camera are still shooters. If they shoot any video, it will be 1080p and they’ll use iMovie to edit it.

Half of the remaining 5% will be vloggers and only half of them will shoot in 4K.

The remaining 2.5% are video enthusiasts that shoot family videos or clips documenting their hobby and only half of them will shoot in 4K.

But for a fair guesstimate let’s overestimate and say 5% or less  of the actual customers will shoot in 4K.

I fit square in the middle of video hobbyist/enthusiast and if I ever buy the camera, I would guess I’ll shoot 75% of my stuff in 1080p.

So yes, the 4K Crop sucks, nobody is denying that, but as a company, Canon understands their market and when you honestly look at the market, no wonder Canon is number 1.

[Mattias Burling]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Then.... Canon made a "pretty darn good camera" which beats many others from 2015!

Which cameras from 2015 with equal DPAF are you referring to?

19 minutes ago, mercer said:

The fact of the matter is this... 95% of the people who will buy this camera are still shooters. If they shoot any video, it will be 1080p and they’ll use iMovie to edit it.

Half of the remaining 5% will be vloggers and only half of them will shoot in 4K.

The remaining 2.5% are video enthusiasts that shoot family videos or clips documenting their hobby and only half of them will shoot in 4K.

But for a fair guesstimate let’s overestimate and say 5% or less  of the actual customers will shoot in 4K.

I fit square in the middle of video hobbyist/enthusiast and if I ever buy the camera, I would guess I’ll shoot 75% of my stuff in 1080p.

So yes, the 4K Crop sucks, nobody is denying that, but as a company, Canon understands their market and when you honestly look at the market, no wonder Canon is number 1.

True. People always forget that these are meant for stills. Video is just an add-on. Also its the same old story, only focus on what the camera doesn't have when comparing, and ignoring what it DOES have.

Same thing happened to Nikon a few weeks ago. And for example Leica every single day.

All the newly announced cameras have features that blow all other cameras out of the water. There is no "best" or even"better" camera.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

The fact of the matter is this... 95% of the people who will buy this camera are still shooters. If they shoot any video, it will be 1080p and they’ll use iMovie to edit it.

Half of the remaining 5% will be vloggers and only half of them will shoot in 4K.

The remaining 2.5% are video enthusiasts that shoot family videos or clips documenting their hobby and only half of them will shoot in 4K.

But for a fair guesstimate let’s overestimate and say 5% or less  of the actual customers will shoot in 4K.

I fit square in the middle of video hobbyist/enthusiast and if I ever buy the camera, I would guess I’ll shoot 75% of my stuff in 1080p.

So yes, the 4K Crop sucks, nobody is denying that, but as a company, Canon understands their market and when you honestly look at the market, no wonder Canon is number 1.

Oh well in that case we should ALL run out and buy it then! The masses are always right! Follow the crowd!

I am switching to iMovie immediately and buying Canon stock.

Anything that helps me shoot more cinematic footage, huh?!

2 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Adapting an APSC 10-18 lens to a new full frame mirrorless camera is going to be a 'thing' for bloggers....

The perfect combo for the most stupid era of human history.