EOS R official video specs discussion

[JurijTurnsek]

Does anyone really believe the rumored $1900 price? Why would they not price it the same as 5D MKIV?

[Snowbro]

19 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Does anyone really believe the rumored $1900 price? Why would they not price it the same as 5D MKIV?

Because its an old camera in a new body and they are banking on people buying new RF mount lenses lol. Then they will release a flagship mirrorless that will cost over $4k in the next 6 months. 

[liork]

CR1 is pure hot air

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Shield3 said:

I wish I could buy the camera today that Canon is going to release...in 2030.

2030?

Someone is feeling optimistic. That is only twelve years away!

[ND64]

2 hours ago, Jn- said:

Latest CR1 rumour has ... “10-bit 4K HDMI clean output support BT.2020 color matrix, not the old BT.709.”  + LOG internal or external.

 

 

Don't know about HDMI out but if there was LOG we would see it in Picture Styles. Maybe they will charge $100 for that. 

[salim]

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It could be said that mirrorless cameras don't actually cannibalize pro video camera sales. Sony don't seem to think so. Neither do Panasonic. Canon clearly has a different opinion. But if you look at their Cinema EOS cameras at the moment, they're not even that hot either. I think Canon is behaving tired, almost. Depressed, even. They need new top-management. The current bunch are just too elderly and too risk averse to truly allow creative freedom across each product line.

You could imagine they would cut into the sales of B-cams for sure. But for pro shooters, you're probably correct. Pros will buy pro tools for the most part. However, probably some portions choose a cheaper camera with the same image quality and spend their savings in lenses, sound and lighting equipment. So for sure, it will have an impact, the question is how much. 
That said, at the same time you can argue a mirrorless might be like a "gateway drug" to the pro system. So a consumer would start with a mirrorless and canon lenses. Builds a business and when he/she needs to upgrade to a more professional setup, they will stay on the same system base because of the investment in their lenses. 

So maybe Z6/Z7 will act as a gateway drug and Nikon might decide on producing a pro video system based on their technology and their new lenses. 

That being said, I can't entirely blame canon and their management team. Everything is still working well and they're making money. Why mess with success. Could they have been far more imaginative. For sure! But everyone is risk averse and no one is going to risk their careers. 

[MdB]

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

Don't know about HDMI out but if there was LOG we would see it in Picture Styles. Maybe they will charge $100 for that. 

Log is not in picture styles on Canon DSLRs. 

10 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Besides the old 1DC.. to be honest no. 

5D IV is a lot like 1DC really, but at a fraction of the original price. But hasn’t gained much ground though, but adds DPAF. 

This camera looks to be closely based on that camera. 

[robotfist]

Ugh. I don’t like the Sony color science AT ALL but I am glad they are ovetaking Canon. I hope in the next few years the suits on Canon’s board get the message when their sales really start going down the tubes compared to their competitors’ numbers. They’ve been able to survive merely on people that are locked into their ecosystem. But that will get you only so far. These specs suck. There is no way to sugarcoat them. They suck, suck, suck. Intentionally crippling products may turn a profit in the present, but it will bite you in the ass in the long run. Steve Jobs himself famously said, “If you don’t cannibalize yourself, your competitors will do it for you.” Canon needs a big punch in the face. I’ve been holding onto their ecosystem like a desperate crack addict that’s run out of crack for years now and has resorted to turpentine and mouthwash to get my fix. This year I’m done with Canon’s turpentine products. They have until the end of 2018 and then I start offloading my EF lenses and bodies. I’m done with Canon’s subpar BS and piss poor video specs. Fuck ‘em. 

[Django]

It's funny how polarizing opinions are on this camera depending on if you're on the stills or video side.

I'm seeing a lot of GAME OVER NIKON/SONY comments on photog sites.

Indeed the lens line-up, -6EV & 5.6K AF points has got Canon photo fanboys wetting their pants, understandably so tbh.

The casual video amateur also thinks 4K, DPAF & Flip-screen means an automatic win.

Like most of you I'm pretty underwhelmed by the video specs (or lack thereof) but will reserve final judgement for official full release info.

I'm really rooting for Canon to get it right even though i know I'm probably going to be disapointed.

Again the lens line-up, DPAF & Canon skintones are super strong selling points imo.

If there isn't a 4k crop & they include C-Log 10-bit out via HDMI that could make it a go for me.

 

[Shirozina]

When the GH5 and GH5s  and the BMPCC 4k can do 10 bit internal why is 10bit out through HDMI something to get exited about?

I'm sure Canon ( like Sony did with the A7 line) will announce a more Video-centric model of the R in the future just as they will a more stills orientated one with >50mp  as for many stills shooters 30mp is Meh!

 

[Django]

Because GH5/GH5S/BMP4K are dealing with a small M43 sensor. It's much easier to manage heat dissipation & processing speed than on FF.

The fact remains Nikon's Z6/7 10-bit via HDMI are the first & only FF compact cameras currently allowing you that.

Also 30MP isn't meh, it's a really good balance in between file size, resolution & ISO performance. 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Django said:

It's funny how polarizing opinions are on this camera depending on if you're on the stills or video side.

I'm seeing a lot of GAME OVER NIKON/SONY comments on photog sites.

Indeed the lens line-up, -6EV & 5.6K AF points has got Canon photo fanboys wetting their pants, understandably so tbh.

The casual video amateur also thinks 4K, DPAF & Flip-screen means an automatic win.

Like most of you I'm pretty underwhelmed by the video specs (or lack thereof) but will reserve final judgement for official full release info.

I'm really rooting for Canon to get it right even though i know I'm probably going to be disapointed.

Again the lens line-up, DPAF & Canon skintones are super strong selling points imo.

If there isn't a 4k crop & they include C-Log 10-bit out via HDMI that could make it a go for me.

 

Well, I personally don’t understand all of the hate? This is Canon’s first truly photo/video mirrorless hybrid and if the $1900 price is correct, this camera will sturdily sit in the enthusiast arena.

So for somebody like me, an amateur video hobbyist, this camera could be perfect. Sure I hope the 4K isn’t cropped, but even with a S35mm crop, it doesn’t kill it for me, I’ll shoot 1080p the majority of the time anyway.

And the more I think about it, there will probably be a crop and they will reference it in their brochure as Cinematic Super 35mm 4K and even more that I think about it, the more I’m okay with it... it opens up a lot of lens choices.

But as you said, I am not in that low level professional market that needs a $1900 camera for my job.

So I can forgive 4K crop even though I don’t love it, but price, rolling shutter and the long shot IBIS will make me purchase or pass. 

[ajay]

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well, I personally don’t understand all of the hate?

It's not necessarily hate on my part, but more of great disappointment and frustration. Being a wildlife shooter, I have a LOT of money tied up in Canon glass and I am frustrated by the lack of aggressiveness on the part of Canon to come up with a decent camera for stills/video. (I still don't understand why they never offered C-Log for the 1DX Mark II.) In the mean time, Sony is having their lunch. There is nothing preventing Canon from building a top-notch stills/video camera but they won't do it as to not cannibalize their cinema cameras.

Steve Jobs stated that Apple should never concern themselves with cannibalizing their product lineup because if they didn't do it themselves someone else would do it for them. Canon should take a page out of the Steve Jobs playbook but they won't. And this is what is so frustrating.

[Django]

Yeah it's easy to understand the frustration.. as from the looks of it I fear there will be no IBIS, no Log, no 10-bit..etc

and then we got the elephant in the room: 4K crop.

1.74x is not Super35 and if Andrew is right and it's 1.9x well that's just micro 4/3 territory and who buys FF camera/lenses for that kind of crop? Not me.

The 2012 1DC only had a 1.3x 4K crop. It would just be plain wrong to have to deal with +1.74x crop six years later. I'd rather just cop a 1DC.

Sony set the bar high with A73 at $2K and now Nikon just upped to the ante with 10-bit out & 8K Timelapse.

Canon shooters are expecting better video specs at end 2018. We'll get a clearer picture on Wednesday i guess.

 

[mercer]

7 minutes ago, ajay said:

It's not necessarily hate on my part, but more of great disappointment and frustration. Being a wildlife shooter, I have a LOT of money tied up in Canon glass and I am frustrated by the lack of aggressiveness on the part of Canon to come up with a decent camera for stills/video. (I still don't understand why they never offered C-Log for the 1DX Mark II.) In the mean time, Sony is having their lunch. There is nothing preventing Canon from building a top-notch stills/video camera but they won't do it as to not cannibalize their cinema cameras.

Steve Jobs stated that Apple should never concern themselves with cannibalizing their product lineup because if they didn't do it themselves someone else would do it for them. Canon should take a page out of the Steve Jobs playbook but they won't. And this is what is so frustrating.

Yes, but people around here act like Canon is the only company that protects their higher line of cameras. Panasonic protects their GH line. Nikon protects their D series.

Only Sony goes balls to the wall but one could easily argue that Sony cameras are an exhibition of their sensor tech, so it would make sense for Sony to that.

But...

Sony still uses that 8bit 100mbps 4K codec they’ve been using for 4 years now... where’s the outrage? Sony menus are still a mess... where’s the outrage? Sony cameras still have the potential to overheat... where’s the outrage? Sony lenses are still horribly overpriced... where’s the outrage?

Even though Sony’s AF in the a7iii is really good, it’s still at least a generation behind Canon’s last year models. With this release, Canon’s DPAF could be 2 generations ahead of their competitors in AF. And when they release QPAF, I don’t know if any other manufacturer will catch up. 

If the EOS-R gets Canon Log (which I think it will) Canon will be the only manufacturer to have a Log Profile actually designed for 8bit video.

I’m actually brand agnostic, so I am not bashing Sony or Panasonic here. I will probably buy a Panasonic by Christmas and I have had numerous Sony cameras over the years. The Nikon D5500 is one of my favorite cameras I’ve ever owned. But I’ve decided to invest in EF glass, so I will be sticking with Canon for the foreseeable future. And honestly I may never buy an EOS-R camera because I am tired of using adapters... especially big, clunky mirrorless ones.

[webrunner5]

Glenn you call these Big and Clunky?? Really?

 

[mercer]

17 minutes ago, Django said:

Yeah it's easy to understand the frustration.. as from the looks of it I fear there will be no IBIS, no Log, no 10-bit..etc

and then we got the elephant in the room: 4K crop.

1.74x is not Super35 and if Andrew is right and it's 1.9x well that's just micro 4/3 territory and who buys FF camera/lenses for that kind of crop? Not me.

The 2012 1DC only had a 1.3x 4K crop. It would just be plain wrong to have to deal with +1.74x crop six years later. I'd rather just cop a 1DC.

Sony set the bar high with A73 at $2K and now Nikon just upped to the ante with 10-bit out & 8K Timelapse.

Canon shooters are expecting better video specs at end 2018. We'll get a clearer picture on Wednesday i guess.

 

Well, even the 5D4 crop is exaggerated and it is, by a lot of reports, actually a 1.64 crop which is essentially S35mm.

But to be honest, I am one of the weirdos that wouldn’t mind even a 1.9x crop because it is closer to M4/3... with the flange distance of the EOS-R matching M4/3, it will open up a lot of old C-Mount opportunities once the Chinese adapters start making their way to market.

Dont get me wrong, I’d rather have no crop in 4K, but it is what it is. Once I’ve decided to invest in Canon glass, I’ve decided to invest in Canon cameras and Canon color as well. 

But if it doesn’t have enough of what I want, I’ll wait... a new camera will be released in no time. Or if I end up getting some paid work, I’ll pick up a C100... which I may do anyway. Either way, there isn’t a lack of viable cameras on the market.

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Glenn you call these Big and Clunky?? Really?

 

Don, since the lion’s share of my lenses are vintage manual primes, fifty or so of those lying around do become unwieldy. But no, they aren’t bad, especially since I doubt I could afford the EOS-R and an RF lens right now, so the EF-RF ND adapter would basically live on the camera.

[mercer]

And to add, a crop isn’t as big of a deal with mirrorless because there are a lot more fast, wide angle options with mirrorless cameras.

So for me, price, Canon Log, DPAF and IBIS will be the deciding factors as I’m not getting rid of my 5D3 anytime soon.

[neon]

5 hours ago, Django said:

It's funny how polarizing opinions are on this camera depending on if you're on the stills or video side.

I'm seeing a lot of GAME OVER NIKON/SONY comments on photog sites.

 

ORLY? I'm seeing a lot of: OMG 1 SD card no! OMG no IBIS!. OMG no EF compatibility w/o adapters! Say nothing of the poor EF-M people who are wondering how, if ever, they will mount full frame mirrorless R glass and what's going to happen to their EF-M lens investment should canon slap a cropped sensor on the R mount. The AF system looked good until you read it is only -6ev using a f/1.2 lens, and the fps looked good until you read it is w/o AF that it achieves that paper number. Servo mode release priority drops to 5fps and focus priority to 3fps. It has an optical low pass filter to soften things up too. Was the 5Dmk4 sensor a game over for Nikon/Sony in quality? DR? anything? I don't think so. 

[Tiago Rosa-Rosso]

I think the most interesting thing about this first ff mirrorless from Canon is that lens 28-70mm 2.0. I love that old Tokina 28 - 70mm 2.6  with almost zero focus breathing. If this new canon lens accomplishes the same zero breathing and is optically at the standard of Canon L lenses I will probably buy an Eos R just because of that lens.