Administrators Andrew Reid Posted September 5, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted September 5, 2018 Why does it say card recording not supported then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Mason Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: It will probably have great AF in video mode to boot. And much more affordable fast primes. Is that 100% confirmation of no Canon LOG internally? Why? Canon Log is available internally as 8bit 420 in all resolutions and frame rate. Externally it's also available in 8bit 422 and 10bit 422 with the additional option of BT.2020 colour space. Just now, Andrew Reid said: Why does it say card recording not supported then? 10bit Canon Log option is only available externally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 DPAF and EF compatibility, that's really what the first camera is all about. Not surprising since its Canon. But really underwhelming. Still like the Nikon Zed's a lot more, they'll be better cameras for video and stills. Pass. Chris jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Shield3 said: Wrong it's simple physics. Go find a dark room on a sunny day. Punch a small hole in the wall, then a large one. Which one illuminates the room more? It's not rocket science. Light intensity is the same but the gathering is *not*. All things being equal with sensors (exact same technology) a FF will gather ~2.2 stops more light than an APS-C one. I don't have cameras that allow me to toggle between FF and APS-C, but the image quality / read noise will be worse and/or the ISO will go up to compensate. Sorry you don't believe this, but it's really not tough. A large mirror will reflect more light than a small one. Think about this for a minute - the EOS R is *only* using the very center of the sensor to gather light. You are confused - it's light intensity at the photosite that's important not ' light gathering'. The same intensity is falling on each photosite. A large hole in the wall vs a small hole is variable aperture so that is the wrong way of looking at it. I can toggle between full frame and APS-C on my A7r2 and the exposure doesn't change. I can zoom to the equivalent crop on each while maintaining the same aperture and the exposure doesn't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: It will probably have great AF in video mode to boot. And much more affordable fast primes. And cine Zooms too! Fuji's own 18-55 and 50-135 T2.9! 11 minutes ago, Shirozina said: You are confused - it's light intensity at the photosite that's important not ' light gathering'. The same intensity is falling on each photosite. A large hole in the wall vs a small hole is variable aperture so that is the wrong way of looking at it. I can toggle between full frame and APS-C on my A7r2 and the exposure doesn't change. I can zoom to the equivalent crop on each while maintaining the same aperture and the exposure doesn't change. I am still utterly amazed that people don't understand this. Take a photo: snip out a "crop" of the pic. Is the exposure the same as with the "full" picture? OF COURSE IT IS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield3 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Shirozina said: You are confused - it's light intensity at the photosite that's important not ' light gathering'. The same intensity is falling on each photosite. A large hole in the wall vs a small hole is variable aperture so that is the wrong way of looking at it. I can toggle between full frame and APS-C on my A7r2 and the exposure doesn't change. I can zoom to the equivalent crop on each while maintaining the same aperture and the exposure doesn't change. Not confused at all. We're talking about total light gathering and equivalent noise and ISO. The A7r2 is a bad example as the S35 mode is cleaner since the "binning" of the FF means at ISO 3200 and above it's loses detail and gets noisy quickly. But you'll notice the A7sII is the opposite - no crop and using the entire sensor for the 4k. The Canon 50 1.2 while shooting 4k video is really a 85 F/2 equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Probably the most restrained I’ve ever seen Chris Nichols, especially after drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield3 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, IronFilm said: And cine Zooms too! Fuji's own 18-55 and 50-135 T2.9! I am still utterly amazed that people don't understand this. Take a photo: snip out a "crop" of the pic. Is the exposure the same as with the "full" picture? OF COURSE IT IS! No one is saying the EXPOSURE is different. The same intensity of light is hitting the sensor. I am saying all things being equal, a larger sensor gathers more total light and has less read noise than a smaller one. Have you forgotten that the micro 4/3rds cameras struggle past ISO 1600? This isn't about crop or camera exposure, but equivalent DOF. You can't multiply the focal length without multiplying the effective aperture. This is why the Nokton F/0.95 25mm is roughly a 50mm F/2 in FF terms. Same rule is reversed when you go the other way. Instead of having the full 24x36 sensor "gather" light for your video, the Canon in this case, it's the (almost) S16 dead center of the sensor "gathering" light. 4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: $3000 for a 28-70mm F2 In 4K with the crop factor it is a $3000 49-122mm F3.5. Not so impressive, huh. Andrew gets it - the 28-70 F2 when shooting UHD on the EOS R is roughly a 48-117mm F3.5. KnightsFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerocool22 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Ok the specs arent up to 2018 standards, but lets wait and see some side by sides. As IQ is where its at, not just random numbers on the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield3 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 37 minutes ago, Shirozina said: You are confused - it's light intensity at the photosite that's important not ' light gathering'. The same intensity is falling on each photosite. A large hole in the wall vs a small hole is variable aperture so that is the wrong way of looking at it. I can toggle between full frame and APS-C on my A7r2 and the exposure doesn't change. I can zoom to the equivalent crop on each while maintaining the same aperture and the exposure doesn't change. If I took a FF Canon 50 1.4 and shot a still on a FF body, then put that lens on the 80d - it now becomes 50/1.4 x 1.6, or 80mm 2.24. This is *exactly* the same thing this EOS-R is doing in UHD mode - but even worse!!! SMH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, IronFilm said: I am still utterly amazed that people don't understand this. Take a photo: snip out a "crop" of the pic. Is the exposure the same as with the "full" picture? OF COURSE IT IS! Yeah, exposure is the same. However, snip out a "crop" of the pic, and then blow that crop up to the size that the original was. Noise will be more apparent on the crop than on the original. If you wanted the noise level to be equal on the crop as the original, you lower the ISO, and open the aperture to compensate. Shield3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliKMIA Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 They screwed up again, it was obvious from the leaked specs and I'm not sure why some people got excited about this camera knowing the horrible track record of Canon. I think, it's time to change the name of this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted September 5, 2018 Super Members Share Posted September 5, 2018 Cropfactor applied to aperture is wrong unless you add a long ass sentence about shutter speed and/or iso, sensor generation etc, etc, etc. It makes zero sense. F2 is f2 is f2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I’m willing to bet the severely cropped 4K will be noisier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 35 minutes ago, Shield3 said: Not confused at all. We're talking about total light gathering and equivalent noise and ISO. The A7r2 is a bad example as the S35 mode is cleaner since the "binning" of the FF means at ISO 3200 and above it's loses detail and gets noisy quickly. But you'll notice the A7sII is the opposite - no crop and using the entire sensor for the 4k. The Canon 50 1.2 while shooting 4k video is really a 85 F/2 equivalent. The 'equivalence' is to do with the FOV and DOF and nothing to do with exposure or 'light gathering' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted September 5, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted September 5, 2018 Equivalent aperture is there to illustrate what the depth of field is going to look like. The low light performance remains as bright as the real aperture. Separate issue: The low light performance will dip if the sensor is doing a 1:1 readout, because the noise is sampled 1:1 and therefore is as large and intrusive as you can get. With oversampling or downscaling the noise is reduced and you can involve further noise reduction processing in the pipeline there, which you can't do with a 1:1 crop. This has been true and plain for all to see as far back as the 1:1 ExTele crop mode on the GH1. It shouldn't really be controversial. The 5D Mark IV was already not so hot at high ISOs either for video or stills, so that is another area of disappointment to chalk up on the board for the EOS R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Exactly - oversampling = less noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield3 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 This takes it a step further though - it's only reading from the center of the sensor. So it's almost like having a micro four thirds when you're shooting UHD...:! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 @Andrew Reid Exactly. And I think most of us count noise level as part of low light performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield3 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 But yes, it's more about DOF and effective focal length than light gathering. I would submit the larger the sensor area, all things being equal, would gather more "total" light, even with the same light intensity. Exposure will not change; F/1.8 is F/1.8. People intertwine "light intensity" and "light gathering" and they're not the same. But again - shoot a 50 2.8 on a full frame and compare that to a 25mm F/1.4 on a micro four thirds. Same DOF / focal length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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