First 14bit RAW video frame extracted from 5D Mark IV with Magic Lantern!!

[Bioskop.Inc]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’d be thrilled with 2K Raw up to 60p continuous with DPAF... well worth the upgrade.

If they can get a 2.7K “Alexa” mode, or even 3K with a clean liveview... well that’s just icing on the cake. 

Yeah, if it's good enough for ARRI, then this would really be something for the 5D4.

Also, don't forget all the other goodies ML gives the camera for shooting pics, timelapses etc...

But, then BM just announced their version of RAW, but their cameras don't take dedicated stills - exciting times!

[mercer]

6 minutes ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

Yeah, if it's good enough for ARRI, then this would really be something for the 5D4.

Also, don't forget all the other goodies ML gives the camera for shooting pics, timelapses etc...

But, then BM just announced their version of RAW, but their cameras don't take dedicated stills - exciting times!

Exactly, and BM doesn’t have AF. Plus 1080p Raw on the P4K is a 4x crop. The new BM Raw is interesting but I wonder how much better BM Raw really is compared to ProRes HQ. I haven’t read up on BM Raw or watched the video but it almost sounds like BM’s way to stop licensing ProRes.

But I digress, it will be interesting to see what ML can do with the 5D4, even with the original mjpeg engine. Hopefully they can get the Canon Log version working with Raw in the future as well because the camera isn’t much more with it and it will be nice to have the option. 

To add, BM Raw and the development kit could really help with ML. A conversion to 12:1 BM Raw in the MLV App could save a lot of space in post. 

[zerocool22]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Exactly, and BM doesn’t have AF. Plus 1080p Raw on the P4K is a 4x crop. The new BM Raw is interesting but I wonder how much better BM Raw really is compared to ProRes HQ. I haven’t read up on BM Raw or watched the video but it almost sounds like BM’s way to stop licensing ProRes.

But I digress, it will be interesting to see what ML can do with the 5D4, even with the original mjpeg engine. Hopefully they can get the Canon Log version working with Raw in the future as well because the camera isn’t much more with it and it will be nice to have the option. 

Well when using prores I do miss the RAW sliders in resolve or Premiere. Which are so usefull to do quick adjustments. 

 

Yeah exiting times for sure, I was sure to get the pocket 4K as BCAM to my UMP. (now my ump has gotten a serious awesome update)
But if this thing works I will be getting a 5D IV instead and sell my canon 6D. So I can double up my photography and travel video cam into one. 

[mercer]

1 minute ago, zerocool22 said:

Well when using prores I do miss the RAW sliders in resolve or Premiere. Which are so usefull to do quick adjustments. 

 

Yeah exiting times for sure, I was sure to get the pocket 4K as BCAM to my UMP. (now my ump has gotten a serious awesome update)
But if this thing works I will be getting a 5D IV instead and sell my canon 6D. So I can double up my photography and travel video cam into one. 

I’m trying to find out if BM Raw is available on the original Ursa Mini? The price of that cam is getting silly low on the used market and the sample with the old man does look great. As a whole, I’d still prefer FF 2K Raw from a 5D4 than the P4K though. But I could find some use for a Ursa Mini with BM Raw.

[Danyyyel]

Sincerely is that still relevant. I was just going to say that with the amount of Camera coming with 10 bit etc.... and then I saw the blackmagic raw. Why would someone bother with it. I mean 10 bit log video will be good enough for 95% of shooting, now with  blackmagic Raw which could be implemented in the P4k, the hassle, reliability, large file size etc... makes this just moot for any filmmaker.

[KnightsFan]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

To add, BM Raw and the development kit could really help with ML. A conversion to 12:1 BM Raw in the MLV App could save a lot of space in post. 

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem very feasible based on what Grant Petty said, since BM Raw relies on sensor-specific hardware and measurements to do its partial demosaicing.

[mercer]

32 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

Sincerely is that still relevant. I was just going to say that with the amount of Camera coming with 10 bit etc.... and then I saw the blackmagic raw. Why would someone bother with it. I mean 10 bit log video will be good enough for 95% of shooting, now with  blackmagic Raw which could be implemented in the P4k, the hassle, reliability, large file size etc... makes this just moot for any filmmaker.

How is FF 14 bit Raw even at 1080p irrelevant? When you add Canon’s color science plus DPAF for Raw video... plus a 30mp stills camera. Any 4K 14bit or even 3K with a crop is just gravy.

25 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem very feasible based on what Grant Petty said, since BM Raw relies on sensor-specific hardware and measurements to do its partial demosaicing.

Well a lot of people are convinced the free code can be implemented into cameras? I think it is for post workflows only?

[KnightsFan]

@mercer it may be possible to create files that follow the bm raw specs either in camera on the 5d4 or in post. So I that sense, its possible. But it seems that blackmagic can achieve such high compression ratios (without artifacts) because they specifically designed their hardware encoder to their sensor. Each blackmagic camera that does bm raw will have a unique encoder. Such an encoder doesn't exist for the 5d4 sensor, so presumably, 12:1 compression using bm raw would introduce artifacts. And even if you got it working (with artifacts), it probably wouldn't be in camera unless they can do that encoding in software on the 5d4's processor. Which is doubtful.

[mercer]

@KnightsFan I doubt ML will implement BMRaw in camera but it may be possible for some of the post apps to convert to it. 

But I don’t know about this “encoder” how were they able to implement BMRaw into the Ursa Mini Pro?

[KnightsFan]

@mercer Watch the video, Grant Petty talks about it. The Pro must have had the hardware all along. They've been working on BM Raw for 2.5 years, he said.

Yeah, I know it wouldn't be in camera, just sort of rambling on about stuff haha.

I'm sure there will be ways to convert it in post. After all, apparently you will be able to export videos from Resolve in BM Raw. Of course I'm not sure what the practical implication is, but based on the video, it seems that one of the pillars of design for BM Raw is designing it around the sensor hardware and color science. So maybe ML can make a converter, but will it be any good? I'm sure Blackmagic--a company with actual full time employees--didn't spend 2.5 years just to design some a container format and some .sidecar files. I also doubt they invented vastly improved techniques for video compression. My guess is that a lot of the time was spent tuning algorithms to their hardware and color science, something that the open source community might not have the resources to do.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong about all of this!

[webrunner5]

It is a open Codec. I am sure Canon has engineers to make it work. And BM may help them. They want to sell everyone a copy of Resolve!

[KnightsFan]

@webrunner5 Canon isn't going to help ML in any way, shape, or form.

[webrunner5]

3 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

@webrunner5 Canon isn't going to help ML in any way, shape, or form.

Oh I am sure of that LoL. I was talking about BM helping Canon implement the new BM Raw. It would help Canon and help BM. That Raw is a win for everyone to be honest.

[KnightsFan]

@webrunner5 It would be amazing if that happened. I wonder if Blackmagic has any intention of allowing other camera manufacturers to use BM Raw? Decoding seems open with the SDK and all, but I'm unclear on whether encoding is open and/or free.

[webrunner5]

Well I got the impression from that long video that Grant Petty did that all of it was open?? Even open to other NLE's. So why not help others. I think probably Resolve will be the best editing platform for it. Well at least for the time being.  So why not sell more copies LoL.

[KnightsFan]

@webrunner5 Yeah, the decoding part is all open, so it could easily end up in all different post production applications, but I didn't hear him say anything about it ending up in non-blackmagic cameras. Did I just miss that part? It seems like a fantastic format, I'd love for it to become ubiquitous among cameras.

[webrunner5]

12 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

@webrunner5 Yeah, the decoding part is all open, so it could easily end up in all different post production applications, but I didn't hear him say anything about it ending up in non-blackmagic cameras. Did I just miss that part? It seems like a fantastic format, I'd love for it to become ubiquitous among cameras.

Well you know as much as me, so yeah I am not positive. But I really doubt Grant did this to have it a lock down on Only BM cameras. He seems to want to make it easier for everyone that is not rich to get into video somewhat on the cheap.

I am sure this all won''t happen in a month, but you have to be crazy not to have it in any camera out there, especially since it is free. But all this is Way pass my pay grade knowledge wise. Sounds like a lot of it revolves around  Metadata for each camera model.

[KnightsFan]

13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

But I really doubt Grant did this to have it a lock down on Only BM cameras.

That's probably right and in keeping with his philosophy, but I haven't seen anything about it coming to other cameras yet. Free SDK for decoding is very different from it being open source or freely implemented in any camera. Right now, it seems a lot like Redcode, which also has an SDK.

17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Sounds like a lot of it revolves around  Metadata for each camera model.

Yeah, I agree. I remember Grant talking about how ProRes Raw didn't have enough metadata support back when they announced the Pocket 4K. Now I guess we all know what he was really thinking about!

I also think that the whole camera-specific metadata (and possibly encoding as well?) is what would keep BM Raw from being properly implemented by Magic Lantern for the 5D4, even if they could make some post-transcoder.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but what a nice marriage it would be to have the Magic Lateran help aids along with BM Raw in a Canon that is rock stable dependable. Not that would be some nice stuff for the older consumer cameras. I mean if ML can hack a Canon camera they sure as hell can figure out how to do this BM Raw thingy. Since it is a open Codec what is to stop them.

[KnightsFan]

21 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I wonder if Blackmagic has any intention of allowing other camera manufacturers to use BM Raw? Decoding seems open with the SDK and all, but I'm unclear on whether encoding is open and/or free.

 

20 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I haven't seen anything about it coming to other cameras yet. Free SDK for decoding is very different from it being open source or freely implemented in any camera.

I would like to point out that my fears were unfounded, and Blackmagic is indeed open to other camera manufacturers recording in BM Raw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYswt0WM7gU They talk about it around 5:30.