Fuji X-T3 and X-T4 discussion

[pressland]

Would anyone recommend this camera over the Pocket 4k for recreating the soft look of film? Most of the  XT-3 footage I have seen looks very slick and modern (not a bad thing), whereas the Pocket 4k samples seem to convey motion and detail in a more subdued way that mimics film. Is there anything different about the Pocket 4k from a technical standpoint?

[austinchimp]

1 hour ago, pressland said:

Would anyone recommend this camera over the Pocket 4k for recreating the soft look of film? Most of the  XT-3 footage I have seen looks very slick and modern (not a bad thing), whereas the Pocket 4k samples seem to convey motion and detail in a more subdued way that mimics film. Is there anything different about the Pocket 4k from a technical standpoint?

I would say that straight out of the camera the Fuji colour looks very nice, but not necessarily like film. You probably wouldn't mistake it for film, that's for sure.

The BMPCC4k, from what I've seen, looks a little more filmic with vintage lenses, but both of these cameras are going to require some work in production and post production if you're trying to lose the video look entirely.

I think there's also a bias in the kind of footage we've seen from both cameras. The Pocket seems to have been bought by more indie filmmaker types, while the Fuji seems to be in the hands of more photographers from what I can tell by going on YT and Vimeo. So I think the Pocket footage is appealing if you match that profile. A lot of the Fuji footage is badly shot, exposed and graded.

The Fujifilm can also shoot stills, so it kind of depends if you need a hybrid or not. It also has good autofocus.

Do a search for H1 footage, and you'll see more Fuji footage with a filmic treatment.

 

 

https://vimeo.com/265565687

[pressland]

49 minutes ago, austinchimp said:

I would say that straight out of the camera the Fuji colour looks very nice, but not necessarily like film. You probably wouldn't mistake it for film, that's for sure.

 

I appreciate you pulling those clips. The X-T3 definitely puts out a more interesting rendition of color, where the Pocket 4k footage always looks like it was filmed as dusk. The XT-3 is clearly a more advanced and well-rounded tool, but there is something that still bumps me about the look of dSLR video when it comes to feature films.

[thephoenix]

grading is really important to have the film look.

globaly to me the main weakness of fuji are the lenses, they are not stabilized, and that is quite a problem for video especialy when you have such a great af system.

fuji need to upgrade their lenses if they want to make it big on the video market

[frontfocus]

6 hours ago, thephoenix said:

globaly to me the main weakness of fuji are the lenses, they are not stabilized

How about a tripod? and a slider? or even a dolly?
What about gimbals, steadycams and other things? 

I have used the OIS lenses from Canon and Fuji, the IBIS from Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and Fuji but neither of those systems is anywhere close to replacing the things mentioned above. 
OIS and IBIS are very nice to have, especially in combination with other forms of stabilization, but I think people are taking it as some kind of excuse.

Where are the stabilized Summilux-C lenses? The stabilized Ultraprimes or the Cookes? Where is the IBIS in the Arri Alexa or the Red camera?

[thephoenix]

i am not comparing i am just saying it lacks stab, that is my opinion

of course you don't need it when using tripod, using slider, hmm it depends on the build quality, dolly same story, there are many that shake the camera

and why comparing with red or expensive products ?

comparing a 1500$ camera with some 15k$ others is a nonsense as the equipment are not the same and the way you work with it and the team around are not the same.

for gimballs many prefer to use them with stabilized lenses or body in order to avoid jittering.

this camera is the kind you want to use handheld sometimes, expecialy with the great af, having a stabilized lense would be such a great thing

[frontfocus]

The X-H2 with IBIS is probably coming sooner than later, looking at their history, that will probably be the camera for videocentric people. No need to optically f*** up the primes and 16-55

[thephoenix]

didn't know stabilized lenses were crap ?

when it's well done they are as good as non stabilized ones and yet you still have the choice to turn it off

[frontfocus]

lol

[Django]

honestly i feel XT3 is the first hybrid camera that really gives Super35 cine cameras a run for their money.. at a fraction of the cost.

Even 120fps & 4K60 looking amazing.. 

 

[thebrothersthre3]

I have heard that Fuji's motion looks more cinematic then the BMP4K. Personally I can never really notice differences in motion cadence. 

The Black Magic rolling shutter is less, closer to a cinema camera. While the XT3's is still very respectable, better then the hybrid competition (other then the GH5). 

I agree with Django, this camera really is a killer. I think the BMP4K is just as much a killer though. RAW, Prores, 4k high speed for $1000, are you kidding me? Its high ISO performance is probably better then a lot of RED cameras or Arri. 

That said the continuous auto focus was what really sold me with the XT3. 10 bit, fuji color, excellent high speed, and amazing continuous auto focus. 

I don't think the XH2 is coming until 2020.

I had sharpness on -4 here so its a good example of how organic or not organic the image is. 

[sandro]

for video from your experiences what is the maximum ISO you would use? 

I remember the xt2 had nice grain up to 12800.

[mercer]

34 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I have heard that Fuji's motion looks more cinematic then the BMP4K. Personally I can never really notice differences in motion cadence. 

The Black Magic rolling shutter is less, closer to a cinema camera. While the XT3's is still very respectable, better then the hybrid competition (other then the GH5). 

I agree with Django, this camera really is a killer. I think the BMP4K is just as much a killer though. RAW, Prores, 4k high speed for $1000, are you kidding me? Its high ISO performance is probably better then a lot of RED cameras or Arri. 

That said the continuous auto focus was what really sold me with the XT3. 10 bit, fuji color, excellent high speed, and amazing continuous auto focus. 

I don't think the XH2 is coming until 2020.

I had sharpness on -4 here so its a good example of how organic or not organic the image is. 

Looks wicked!!! I also agree with Django, this is THE most cinematic image from a hybrid to date. I personally like the image better than the P4K... but I like the P4K. 

Couple questions about your video... I didn’t notice... what lens did you use? Also with F-Log, did you ETTR? From your exposure change in the one shot, I’m gonna guess no?

And finally, that Eterna LUT is amazing, I almost don’t believe you that there wasn’t any grading other than the LUT. Lol. 

Anyway, nice work. I am so tempted to buy one but I am in the middle of a shoot so it would just collect dust until I’m really ready to use it... which could be months away... maybe it will be a little cheaper then. 

21 hours ago, BrunoCH said:

Yep !

https://vimeo.com/299173698

If you want I can send the file on google drive.

Thanks Bruno, you really can push those files around. Thanks for posting. 

What are your thoughts of the 2K vs 4K?

 

[thebrothersthre3]

14 minutes ago, mercer said:

Looks wicked!!! I also agree with Django, this is THE most cinematic image from a hybrid to date. I personally like the image better than the P4K... but I like the P4K. 

Couple questions about your video... I didn’t notice... what lens did you use? Also with F-Log, did you ETTR? From your exposure change in the one shot, I’m gonna guess no?

And finally, that Eterna LUT is amazing, I almost don’t believe you that there wasn’t any grading other than the LUT. Lol. 

Anyway, nice work. I am so tempted to buy one but I am in the middle of a shoot so it would just collect dust until I’m really ready to use it... which could be months away... maybe it will be a little cheaper then. 

Thanks Bruno, you really can push those files around. Thanks for posting. 

What are your thoughts of the 2K vs 4K?

 

Noope no grading or anything. I didn't ETTR, just kind of shot how I thought it would look good. The lens was a 23mm F2 fuji. You might be able to get one cheaper in a couple months. If Sony ever releases their A7000, I am sure the XT3 price will drop a bit. 

[BrunoCH]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

 

Thanks Bruno, you really can push those files around. Thanks for posting. 

What are your thoughts of the 2K vs 4K?

 

The original file is here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WrxAJs0NPvQ9jG5Sh5asBuxzfJjbC0j1/view?usp=sharing

 

- For my work (fiction shorts) I don’t need and I don’t want 4K. It’s too sharp on close-up. You need to use expensive filter like black pro-mist and/or soften in post.

- The 2K 200 Mbps is the best quality codec in the XT-3. (the equivalent in 4k should be 4x200=800Mbps)

- I think sometime, I can shoot 4K for a 2K timeline, when I need to crop or stabilize in post.

- I need to make more test for moiré. Theoretically there should be less moire in 4K. But the only shot I've seen moiré is this one on the green pullover.

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, sandro said:

for video from your experiences what is the maximum ISO you would use? 

I remember the xt2 had nice grain up to 12800.

The XT3 and XT2 ISO performance is basically exactly the same in terms of noise at high ISO. You have the interframe Noise reduction option when recording in 4k under 30p, which may be a nice option the XT2 doesn't have. There is probably less color shift at high isos too, but in terms of noise its the same. 

[Snowbro]

Sam has a few videos with the xt3 on his channel. 

 

[DanielVranic]

17 hours ago, BrunoCH said:

The original file is here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WrxAJs0NPvQ9jG5Sh5asBuxzfJjbC0j1/view?usp=sharing

 

- For my work (fiction shorts) I don’t need and I don’t want 4K. It’s too sharp on close-up. You need to use expensive filter like black pro-mist and/or soften in post.

- The 2K 200 Mbps is the best quality codec in the XT-3. (the equivalent in 4k should be 4x200=800Mbps)

- I think sometime, I can shoot 4K for a 2K timeline, when I need to crop or stabilize in post.

- I need to make more test for moiré. Theoretically there should be less moire in 4K. But the only shot I've seen moiré is this one on the green pullover.

I gotta say, I do have to disagree with this. I started out with this setting and the noise is much larger and harder to get rid of than  in DCI4K. If i need to make the footage softer I will use the midtone detail in Resolve.

However, I do always use a DCI2K timeline in resolve - no need to deliver in 4K for me yet

[mercer]

Sorry if these questions have already been asked but 53 pages are a lot to get through...

I’m curious why there are noise issues with the 2K if there isn’t in 4K?

Is it common practice to ETTR F-Log? Does anyone know where middle grey is at in F-Log?

Is there a Fuji white paper floating around that explains the Log Curve?

[frontfocus]

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/lut/