Fuji X-T3 and X-T4 discussion

[Kisaha]

10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And what percentage of people that buy a X-T3 do you think will even take one video with it? I wold bet less than half do. And half of them won't use 10bit. Everyone on here acts like everyone is like us. They aren't. Most are photo people.

I said "HYBRID enthusiasts". I was referring to people that care both for video and photos, not the general public.

A) phones are good enough for the masses (so why spend more for the Osmo Pocket)

B) Alexa, and similar cameras, have no reason to have excellent performance in high ISO and they aren't meant for prosumer use anyeay

C) Enthusiasts need something more than a phone for their hobby, even if it is only for the statement of it.

[webrunner5]

Hell I am going to buy one. May give my kids one for Christmas. It is the best thing since sex. They won't be able to make enough of them fast enough. Ir will be a run away hit for DJI. You guys on here act like you are 90 years old. Get with it. It is nearly 2019. Other than on here we don't count for crap in the world. Get over it. We are Dinosaurs.

I watch Hundreds of videos on YouTube a week, no movies but Blogs, and other than Audio once and awhile I never say Jesus the video quality sucks. We have progressed so far lately that piss poor video is a thing of the past. And heck half the video on the web is from a GoPro or a Drone with a sensor smaller than a fingernail. And guess what, it looks pretty damn good even with YT compression. Our skills are needed less and less everyday. Younger people might think of a different career path. 10 years from now my 94 year old Mon would be able to take good video.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Hell I am going to buy one. May give my kids one for Christmas. It is the best thing since sex. They won't be able to make enough of them fast enough. Ir will be a run away hit for DJI. You guys on here act like you are 90 years old. Get with it. It is nearly 2019. Other than on here we don't count for crap in the world. Get over it. We are Dinosaurs.

I watch Hundreds of videos on YouTube a week, no movies but Blogs, and other than Audio once and awhile I never say Jesus the video quality sucks. We have progressed so far lately that piss poor video is a thing of the past. And heck half the video on the web is from a GoPro or a Drone with a sensor smaller than a fingernail. And guess what, it looks pretty damn good even with YT compression. Our skills are needed less and less everyday. Younger people might think of a different career path. 10 years from now my 94 year old Mon would be able to take good video.

because we are not 90 years old, we know that most people will always prefer their mobile phones for photos and video than another dedicated device, however small it is. The future for amateurs is better cameras in phones, not another device, we are past that. Professionals now, is another subject, of course your mom would be able to shoot something with a better spec-ed camera, but I do not see, even a 100$ wedding video shot by her, and usually wedding videos cost a lot mre. There will always be some demand for professionals of sight and sound. Tools are not getting better only for amateurs, but for pros too. Obviously media creating will be mandatory for next generations, something to learn on primary schools, but some people will be professionals, some hobbyists, and the vast majority will do something else in their life - almost like today, or 50 years ago, when the need for media creation was miniscule, and the population of earth half of what it is now.

Now, if GoPro's and 1/3456234564" inch drones are good enough for you you must be very lucky, because you sell your C100, and still got cash on your hand after buying a cheap drone and a cheap action cam.

[Snowbro]

Why the hell are we comparing cheap go pro's and crappy pocket dji's, to an apsc 10 bit monster that can do 4k 60 supersampled from 6k? 

[thebrothersthre3]

The issue with all small sensors is they don't do well in low light. Better then they did before, but hell even APSC and M43 fail in low light compared to full frame performance. The sensors are so small the difference is pretty huge. Outside of that though, yeah you definitely have a point. For me low light performance is huge though.

[Snowbro]

I just got one today. People said you can turn down the AF speed & its fine; I turned it down to AF Speed -5 (lowest it goes) and it still snaps lightning fast to stuff or is very jumpy, not a good look for video. Does anyone know what else you can do? I have to use MF + Peaking 100% of the time if you can't slow this down. Image out of it looks good with log

Update: Apparently, it works fine, just not before you hit Record lol

[IronFilm]

15 hours ago, Kisaha said:

B) Alexa, and similar cameras, have no reason to have excellent performance in high ISO and they aren't meant for prosumer use anyeay

Better low light means the DoP can get away with smaller/faster/cheaper lighting packages. 
This is one of the reasons why the Varicam LT is being preferred by some DoPs over an Arri
Am sure the next generation sensor that Arri releases will be better in low light. 

Ah I meant this video, he goes into it about the benefits of the Varicam LT over an Arri Alexa:
 

 

[Snowbro]

Converted the Flog to LogC + Alexa 709, looks good to me. DR is awesome for this little camera; I thought the sharpness would be overly harsh from what I saw on youtube, but it looks awesome at 0 & Flog. This is a screen from my first test (nearly dark, 640 iso almost no noise), didn't grade it, did what is mentioned above, plus a minor tweak on project wide adjustment layer. Screenshot is only from 8-bit h.264 export, shot in 400mbps all-i, NR off. 

When shooting Cinema 4K 17:9, there is a tiny clear sliver on the right side. Anyone know whats going on? I can crop in 1% in premiere to get rid of it.

 

Decided to upload a screen from Premiere and adjust a bit. Notice the beautiful clear strip on the right side lol

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The issue with all small sensors is they don't do well in low light. Better then they did before, but hell even APSC and M43 fail in low light compared to full frame performance. The sensors are so small the difference is pretty huge. Outside of that though, yeah you definitely have a point. For me low light performance is huge though.

The gap is not as big as you think. The Panasonic GH5S / BMPCC4K vs Sony a7 series proves that. In fact arguably MFT has the upper hand over Full Frame stills cameras at this point in time in 2018.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

 

Ah I meant this video, he goes into it about the benefits of the Varicam LT over an Arri Alexa:
 

 

There are productions that do not care about cheap/fast/small lights. Because you can make a film with the A7Sii and an anamorphic adapter, it doesn't mean that high end does not exist, and higher budgeted productions usually use Alexas, vast majority of them, at least in Europe.

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

There are productions that do not care about cheap/fast/small lights.

All productions care. Even the big big budget ones. 
Just as the budgets go up then what they think of as "cheap/fast/small" changes. 
For some people having one lighting truck instead of three is "cheap/fast/small", for others an Arri M18 is a "cheap/fast/small" light. 
Then at the opposite extreme the shoot I worked on today the cameraman didn't even merely use a flecky just as some negative fill. 

 

"Instead of using a 2K I can use a hundred watt light"

Yup, I reckon the Panasonic Varicam is an underappreciated game changer. 

 

 

[thebrothersthre3]

12 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The gap is not as big as you think. The Panasonic GH5S / BMPCC4K vs Sony a7 series proves that. In fact arguably MFT has the upper hand over Full Frame stills cameras at this point in time in 2018.

A new A7SII would still crush a GH5S. The A73 beats the GH5S while having over twice the megapixel count. Medium format will become a thing eventually too.

The GH5S is very capable for most things though IMHO. Its pushing the limits of M43 though, can't lower the MP more then they have. Its also not really a good hybrid camera.

That said 1inch sensors just are severely handicapped, at least for my uses.
 

[Kisaha]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

All productions care. Even the big big budget ones. 
Just as the budgets go up then what they think of as "cheap/fast/small" changes. 
For some people having one lighting truck instead of three is "cheap/fast/small", for others an Arri M18 is a "cheap/fast/small" light. 
Then at the opposite extreme the shoot I worked on today the cameraman didn't even merely use a flecky just as some negative fill. 

 

"Instead of using a 2K I can use a hundred watt light"

Yup, I reckon the Panasonic Varicam is an underappreciated game changer. 

 

 

Yep, a Panasonic advertising video pushes a specific Varicam. No surprises here, but when you compare Alexa vs Varicam in real world productions, the difference is something like 9.9 out of 10 productions use Alexa and 0.1 Panasonic (in the productions between them and not other brands). Sony and Red have a much bigger share in such productions also.

My point was that consumers/prosumers/pros have/need different equipment.

You are trying to mix consumers, prosumers and pros in one camera, while even the Varicams are highly specialized professional cameras than noone will say "what should I buy? A Samsung S9+,  GH5 or a Varicam LT?".

[androidlad]

This guy's videos are a must watch:

 

[Snowbro]

Harsh Key Light Test: Guess which is 1DX ii & which is XT3. Didn't have time to frame perfectly or color match exactly. Filmed XT3 in 4k 17:9 All-I 400mbps. Canon Cinema 4k. Cinestyle - 709 & FLOG - 709, both ISO 800

Canon looked like it had more resolution, could be from sigma lens @ f/2.8 to match fujis f2

[thebrothersthre3]

47 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

Harsh Key Light Test: Guess which is 1DX ii & which is XT3. Didn't have time to frame perfectly or color match exactly. Filmed XT3 in 4k 17:9 All-I 400mbps. Canon Cinema 4k. Cinestyle - 709 & FLOG - 709, both ISO 800

 

 

Canon looked like it had more resolution, could be from sigma lens @ f/2.8 to match fujis f2

Gonna say the bottom is Canon based on your comment about resolution. If you are using the same focal length the fuji would also be more cropped I believe. 

[BrunoCH]

It's written on  owner's manual page 196 :

"HD framing can be customized using FUJIFILM Tether Shooting Plug-in PRO or Hyper-Utility Software HS-V5."

Has anyone tried this? What does this mean exactly? We can customize in the XT3 or only in the app? And what customization? Is it possible to create framing guides for 2.35 or 4/3?

@Snowbro : I would say the bottom photo is XT3.

[androidlad]

5 minutes ago, BrunoCH said:

It's written on  owner's manual page 196 :

"HD framing can be customized using FUJIFILM Tether Shooting Plug-in PRO or Hyper-Utility Software HS-V5."

Has anyone tried this? What does this mean exactly? We can customize in the XT3 or only in the app? And what customization? Is it possible to create framing guides for 2.35 or 4/3?

@Snowbro : I would say the bottom photo is XT3.

I asked Fujifilm about this, the customisation is only for the computer running the tether software, not for the camera display.

[BrunoCH]

3 hours ago, androidlad said:

I asked Fujifilm about this, the customisation is only for the computer running the tether software, not for the camera display.

Thank for this answer. That's what I thought.

[IronFilm]

On 12/8/2018 at 6:33 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

A new A7SII would still crush a GH5S.

1) a7Smk3 is a purely hypothetical camera
2) but would it? Am sure Sony will hold back some things, be it 10bit, waveforms, timecode, or more (and give you things you don't want, like record limits or overheating or who knows what next time around)