Fuji X-T3 and X-T4 discussion

[BrunoCH]

26 minutes ago, androidlad said:

It's not like that.

DR100 film simulations let you use base ISO160, this is the native ISO with a video gamma that limits dynamic range, but ProNeg Std is the flattest of all film simulations.

DR400 film simulations start at ISO640 and behave similarly to F-log, which actually expose at ISO160 and push shadow 2 stops. DR400 film simulations have similar DR with F-log (minor difference in roll-off), especially with highlights/shadow set to -2.

We do not have the same interpretation of fuji parameters. I still need to do some tests. But the parameters DR100, 200, 400 would be three simplified values of the knee correction fonction (you can not choose the knee point and the knee slope) on video camera and only concerns highlights.
Eterna is the flattest simulation film.
640 is the native ISO.
That's just what I believe. Anyway Fuji does not give info.

[webrunner5]

Good definition of Knee, Point, and Slope by Tom Roper.. "Raise your hand above your head. The height of your shoulder above the floor is the Knee Sat Level. The height of your elbow above the floor is the Point. The amount of bend at your elbow is the Slope".

Knee adjustment really only helps much in very bright situations. When I was doing my ENG thing that was one of the few adjustments we were allowed to adjust in the field. And it was only used if you were forced to shoot into the sun, or really bright lights. And even then nothing too drastic on the curve part. You are not going to gain much DR at the top no matter what you do, but it does tend to look ugly blown out, even to an untrained eye more so than say crushed Blacks. Video is more about compromises than anything else. Hardy any perfect scene to shoot unless you are on a Hollywood studio set where they have all of it covered. That to me is why I am not too big of fan of Run n Gun though a lot of the short, or a lot of quick cuts. Unless the story is just so amazing you can't look away, you can't maintain smooth transitions very easy exposure wise. And you can't recover something in Post that was never there.

 

 

 

[BrunoCH]

@webrunner5  thanks for these explanations. 

It seems like
DR400 is a soft knee

DR100 a hard knee
and DR200, between both.

I don’t know if it's true, but  seems like with the quick tests I did. I have to do other tests.

[androidlad]

1 minute ago, BrunoCH said:

@webrunner5  thanks for these explanations. 

It seems like
DR400 is a soft knee

DR100 a hard knee
and DR200, between both.

I don’t know if it's true, but  seems like with the quick tests I did. I have to do other tests.

DR400 is a 2 stop push from ISO160, that's why it starts with ISO640.

DR200 1 stop push from ISO160.

[BrunoCH]

1 hour ago, androidlad said:

DR400 is a 2 stop push from ISO160, that's why it starts with ISO640.

DR200 1 stop push from ISO160.

So it’s just a exposure compensation ?

If it's a knee adjustment, I understand fuji's explanations better. ( and the ! About mottling)

[webrunner5]

34 minutes ago, BrunoCH said:

So it’s just a exposure compensation ?

If it's a knee adjustment, I understand fuji's explanations better. ( and the ! About mottling)

Mottling skin, Yikes!

https://www.crossroadshospice.com/hospice-caregiver-support/end-of-life-signs/mottled-skin-before-death/

[thephoenix]

21 hours ago, BrunoCH said:

So it’s just a exposure compensation ?

If it's a knee adjustment, I understand fuji's explanations better. ( and the ! About mottling)

if it is exposure compensation it would mean that your exposure is not right.

seems that you have higher dr at higher iso if i get it right (like on the bmpc4k)

to me it is always better to have low contrat so you can add some in post

 

[frontfocus]

androidlad already explained it: it's exposed at ISO160 (or higher ISO) for the highlights and shadows and midtones are pushed. And this is reflected with a higher ISO value. It's actually one of the easier, very reproducible dynamic range extension functions. 

[thephoenix]

new fringer adapter coming

https://www.fujirumors.com/fringer-ef-fx-pro-ii-coming-before-may-11/

 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/29/powering-the-fujifilm-x-t3-with-usb-c/

[andrew_dotdot]

15 hours ago, frontfocus said:

androidlad already explained it: it's exposed at ISO160 (or higher ISO) for the highlights and shadows and midtones are pushed. And this is reflected with a higher ISO value. It's actually one of the easier, very reproducible dynamic range extension functions. 

This discussion covers some fuzzy areas, seems like, that aren't well documented. I had my hand in the air and was examining my shoulder and elbow. lol.

In an interview setting like my example, there isn't very much critical dynamic range. That being the case, maybe I could "get away" with using a film simulation, which would let me use a lower ISO value, rather than using a higher-dynamic-range profile, like F-LOG.  @webrunner5 reasons that it may well be OK to have some crushed blacks in some cases, if the highlights are going to be OK. I think this is in that category, especially as B camera.

I do like the Eterna profile -- it serves as my basic go-to starting point. So I could keep shooting in F-LOG and applying Fuji's LUT in Resolve Studio for outdoors and high-contrast frames. But it seems like I could shoot the interviews with the Eterna profile at the ISO floor of 320 as a compromise solution for that application. I can accept that the sit-down segments have less DR, I think, if I'm sure they'll look compatible with the F-LOG+LUT footage when color correcting, due to their common Eterna color DNA.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach? Better than trying the ProNeg Std?

[jpleong]

5 hours ago, andrew_dotdot said:

This discussion covers some fuzzy areas, seems like, that aren't well documented. I had my hand in the air and was examining my shoulder and elbow. lol.

In an interview setting like my example, there isn't very much critical dynamic range. That being the case, maybe I could "get away" with using a film simulation, which would let me use a lower ISO value, rather than using a higher-dynamic-range profile, like F-LOG.  @webrunner5 reasons that it may well be OK to have some crushed blacks in some cases, if the highlights are going to be OK. I think this is in that category, especially as B camera.

I do like the Eterna profile -- it serves as my basic go-to starting point. So I could keep shooting in F-LOG and applying Fuji's LUT in Resolve Studio for outdoors and high-contrast frames. But it seems like I could shoot the interviews with the Eterna profile at the ISO floor of 320 as a compromise solution for that application. I can accept that the sit-down segments have less DR, I think, if I'm sure they'll look compatible with the F-LOG+LUT footage when color correcting, due to their common Eterna color DNA.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach? Better than trying the ProNeg Std?

The reason I recommend ProNeg Std is that it's a little closer starting point to Canon color than Eterna (especially the red/magenta in skin tones) in my (very limited) experience trying to match footage from my 5D4 and 80D to my X-Ts; the caveat being that I use Andrew's EOSHD C-LOG on my Canons.

Try both profiles and try F-LOG+LUTs to see what you like.

Also, to go back to your original question... I didn't realize the screengrab was actually your work. In that specific setting, I would probably have stopped-down more to reveal the background -I can't quite tell what it is and it's (probably?) important to your storytelling. Lighting looks lovely, though!

JP

[jpleong]

And then I saw this thread...

All my previous comments need to have the asterisk that they do not take into account the wrong flag on the file.

[andrew_dotdot]

18 hours ago, jpleong said:

The reason I recommend ProNeg Std is that it's a little closer starting point to Canon color than Eterna (especially the red/magenta in skin tones) in my (very limited) experience trying to match footage from my 5D4 and 80D to my X-Ts; the caveat being that I use Andrew's EOSHD C-LOG on my Canons.

Try both profiles and try F-LOG+LUTs to see what you like.

Also, to go back to your original question... I didn't realize the screengrab was actually your work. In that specific setting, I would probably have stopped-down more to reveal the background -I can't quite tell what it is and it's (probably?) important to your storytelling. Lighting looks lovely, though!

JP

Hmm, OK. ProNeg Std gets the recommendation not just because of the whole DR vs. ISO question, but also for Canonesqueness. That's interesting.

Thanks for the shout on the lighting. You're right - Seeing it now, I could have stopped down a bit more, but I was alone and really pressed for time – just picked out some interesting things and threw lights on them -- a really tacky model boat (that they really hate, but had to admit it looked good in the shoot) and a portrait of her dad, which actually does pop up in the production. ?

[DanielVranic]

So I did go out and buy the Fringer adapters and the 18-35 works perfectly. Just as good as native. Its a noisy lens, but with a Rode VideoMic it is perfect. Cant hear a thing.

BUT. The 50-100 was supposedly optimized for use with the XT3 and the adapter for Smooth Video AF but it is really jerky and quick - not at all like the attached video.

Are there settings I am missing by chance?

 

[jpleong]

2 hours ago, DanielVranic said:

So I did go out and buy the Fringer adapters and the 18-35 works perfectly. Just as good as native. Its a noisy lens, but with a Rode VideoMic it is perfect. Cant hear a thing.

BUT. The 50-100 was supposedly optimized for use with the XT3 and the adapter for Smooth Video AF but it is really jerky and quick - not at all like the attached video.

Are there settings I am missing by chance?

 

Dumb question: did you update to the latest firmware?

[DanielVranic]

3 hours ago, jpleong said:

Dumb question: did you update to the latest firmware?

Yup. Last night I updated the camera, adapter and lenses to all the latest

[BrunoCH]

Discovered this test two weeks ago and it’s definitely very interesting.
It's in Russian; you have to watch with Chrome and autotranslation (good enough for understanding).

https://www.ixbt.com/dv/fujifilm-xt-3-cinema-review.html

[androidlad]

Recent correspondence from Metabones:

Quote

We will develop a new adapter and speed booster for X-mount camera ASAP.

 

[buggz]

16 hours ago, androidlad said:

Recent correspondence from Metabones:

 

I will believe it when we see it.

I used to bug the crap out of them in my X-E1 days, constantly asking...

 

[colepat]

I feel like many of you would have the spec knowledge to answer my question;

Would it be physically possible to fit a drop in ND filter on say a Fringer EF-X adapter? I know the Fringer works well with EF-S lenses and I know they have a longer back end then the regular EF lenses, so I wasn't sure if there would be physically enough space to add that. I love the Kipon drop in filter adapter for Sony, but man it would be so ideal to get the Fringer's electronics with a drop in filter.