Fuji X-T3 and X-T4 discussion

[thephoenix]

1 hour ago, Attila Bakos said:

A slight downside: it seems that the fix they implemented for the bad interpretation for Fujifilm files in v16 (bad YCbCr->RGB conversion) only works in Davinci YRGB and not in RCM.

pffffff they'll never sort it out ?

so disappointing

[Attila Bakos]

1 minute ago, thephoenix said:

pffffff they'll never sort it out ?

so disappointing

Yeah but this is just a beta, and they are getting there. If I have time I'll post a ticket.

[BrunoCH]

Just a little test.

The same file; F-log. The same basic treatment : Delog + Auto WB.

Resolve RCM vs Resolve LUT vs FCPX LUT

 

jpg RCM : input color F-log + OFX tone mapping simple + curve to match LUT waveform.

jpg LUT : LUT Fuji WDR 709

jpg RCM WB :  same thing + auto WB with picker on the white wall.

jpg LUT WB : same thing + auto WB with picker on the same wall.

jpg LUT FCPX : LUT Fuji WDR 709

jpg LUT FCPX WB : same thing + auto WB with picker on the same white wall.

 

What do you think?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dwqr-sQ49vYlUVckkwZdQbpxizCSXk3R/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qJfwDUP64cxELYPyz44FoXW10GXsiM0y?usp=sharing

 

 

[thephoenix]

i prefer the 1st one

[Attila Bakos]

I'm not sure about this yet, but RCM seems to have some kind of color toning. When I try Davinci YRGB + WDR LUT I get colors pretty close to what I get with my F-Log ACES profile. They both convert gamma and colorspace only, there is no special color treatment. But when I check the same clips in RCM they seem to be overall warmer, the greens are more yellowish, the blues are more cyanish, like a filmic LUT already applied In some situations it will be more pleasant to the eye but I wonder why it's happening. Part of this must be caused by the bad interpretation of the files, especially the yellowish greens, but this alone can't be the cause of such a big difference. Will continue testing.

[Attila Bakos]

I tried to match the gamma & overall saturation here to see the color differences. Everything is done in the latest beta of Resolve.

1. WDR LUT
2. My ACES F-Log IDT
3. RCM
4. RCM with fixed YCbCr->RGB conversion.

WDR and ACES are pretty similar, the WDR has more saturated reds.
RCM is different in many patches, however if the input file is interpreted correctly it looks pretty close to the other two.
So in terms of color the differences are minor, once RCM is fixed. I believe the most difference will be caused by WB adjustments.

[androidlad]

On 8/29/2019 at 5:18 PM, androidlad said:

As you may be aware, Fujifilm has registered three new cameras:

FF190001

FF190002 – X-Pro3

FF190003

One of them is a 44 x 33 large format video centric camera with 4K x 3K RGB output.

 

Expect a relevant announcement at IBC later this month.

Readout speed is believed to be ultra fast at < 12ms.

[thephoenix]

i am totaly lost now on settings to use with hlg in rcm

how do you do ?

i am using rec 2100 hlg as input

rec 709 gamma 2.4 for timeline and output

 

[BrunoCH]

@thephoenix

Yes the first one is nice. That’s Fuji LUT WDR + Auto WB in FCPX.

For HLG, I can’t help you. I don’t use it. Perhaps it’s time to go back to F-log

 

@Attila Bakos 

I like your contributions. They’re very instructive. But honestly, I don’t see any difference between your pictures ( or not significant). 

 

My thoughts are if I need to work quickly, I can use Fuji LUT in Fcpx because it’s my NLE. It’s possible to make a very nice color grade. But if I have time, I prefer to use the Resolve RCM. Skin tone, blue sky, green vegetation, and others colors are like I want. And very easy to work with.

[EphraimP]

Hi all,

I found this thread a few weeks back and have been lurking on the forum ever since. It's been very helpful for getting more familiar with the X-T3, which I've been shooting on all summer. I'm slowly building out a mini-cine rig for it. I know some folks aren't fans of rigging small mirrorless cameras like this, but I've found it to be useful. Looking forward to swapping the Anker battery for a V-mount and adding a monitor or Ninja V.

 

[Attila Bakos]

8 hours ago, BrunoCH said:

@Attila Bakos 

I like your contributions. They’re very instructive. But honestly, I don’t see any difference between your pictures ( or not significant).

That's kinda the point here, that once the interpretation issue is fixed in RCM there will be almost no difference. Right now RCM is different from the others but yeah, you have to open the files in separate tabs and click back and forth to see the difference. A real world scenario might be more telling.

[thephoenix]

1 minute ago, Attila Bakos said:

That's kinda the point here, that once the interpretation issue is fixed in RCM there will be almost no difference. Right now RCM is different from the others but yeah, you have to open the files in separate tabs and click back and forth to see the difference. A real world scenario might be more telling.

what are your rcm settings as input ?

i am wondering if i do it right.

my workflow is that i shoot h265 internally then transcode to dnxhr using shutter encoder.

importing transcoded files in resolve. so wonder if it still as to be interpreted as a fuji file ? doing this for both flog and hlg.

same with ninja v usng dnxhr.

 

[Attila Bakos]

1 minute ago, thephoenix said:

what are your rcm settings as input ?

i am wondering if i do it right.

my workflow is that i shoot h265 internally then transcode to dnxhr using shutter encoder.

importing transcoded files in resolve. so wonder if it still as to be interpreted as a fuji file ? doing this for both flog and hlg.

same with ninja v usng dnxhr.

 

I did my tests using Fujifilm F-Log as input color space, then Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 as timeline & output color space. I don't use HLG but for that I'd use Rec.2100 HLG as input, in fact that's automatically chosen by RCM if you import a Fuji HLG file. (in Resolve 16.1 beta 2)

About interpretation of F-Log files (didn't test HLG yet):
If you use the Ninja V then you're fine.
If you use internal footage then you're fine in Davinci YRGB and ACES, but not (yet) in RCM.
If you transcode the footage by doing a matrix conversion from BT.601 to BT.709 then you're fine.
If you transcode the footage without a matrix conversion and you preserve the original matrix coefficients flag, then you're fine in Davinci YRGB and ACES, but not (yet) in RCM.
If you transcode the footage without a matrix conversion and you omit (or simply rewrite) the matrix coefficients flag, then the footage will be interpreted incorrectly everywhere.

It all comes down to how shutter encoder works. I can only help with FFMPEG.

[thephoenix]

1 minute ago, Attila Bakos said:

I did my tests using Fujifilm F-Log as input color space, then Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 as timeline & output color space. I don't use HLG but for that I'd use Rec.2100 HLG as input, in fact that's automatically chosen by RCM if you import a Fuji HLG file. (in Resolve 16.1 beta 2)

About interpretation of F-Log files (didn't test HLG yet):
If you use the Ninja V then you're fine.
If you use internal footage then you're fine in Davinci YRGB and ACES, but not (yet) in RCM.
If you transcode the footage by doing a matrix conversion from BT.601 to BT.709 then you're fine.
If you transcode the footage without a matrix conversion and you preserve the original matrix coefficients flag, then you're fine in Davinci YRGB and ACES, but not (yet) in RCM.
If you transcode the footage without a matrix conversion and you omit (or simply rewrite) the matrix coefficients flag, then the footage will be interpreted incorrectly everywhere.

It all comes down to how shutter encoder works. I can only help with FFMPEG.

shutter encoder is just a gui that works with ffmpeg. i have to see if it does change the matrix but i know i can change colorspace to rec 709

must be my eyes because i don't see fujifilm flog as input in resolve rcm ?

i think i will install 16b2 i am in final 16 at the moment

[Attila Bakos]

4 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

shutter encoder is just a gui that works with ffmpeg. i have to see if it does change the matrix but i know i can change colorspace to rec 709

must be my eyes because i don't see fujifilm flog as input in resolve rcm ?

i think i will install 16b2 i am in final 16 at the moment

Yeah 16 doesn't have it, 16.1 b2 (the latest beta) added it.

[heart0less]

1 hour ago, thephoenix said:

my workflow is that i shoot h265 internally then transcode to dnxhr using shutter encoder.

Why do you transcode it? 

Can't you generate Optimized Media inside Resolve? I think it's much easier this way. 

[thephoenix]

Just now, heart0less said:

Why do you transcode it? 

Can't you generate Optimized Media inside Resolve? I think it's much easier this way. 

i am not sure the free resolve does it. i think you need the paid version to handle h265.

last time i checked it didn't but it was few monthes ago

 

[thephoenix]

2 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

Yeah 16 doesn't have it, 16.1 b2 (the latest beta) added it.

got it thanks

now i gotta redo all i've done in the past 3 days on my last film ?

btw, do you need any conversion lut to rec709 when selecting flog as input ?

[androidlad]

New firmware announcement around IBC as well ?

[Dustin Jenkins]

Androidlad, you're just killing it with the stealth Fuji updates! Any clue if Fuji will ever get rid of a time limit restriction on recording? Seems they said the GFX-100 would have no restriction but I've heard it's a 60 min limit instead of a 30 min limit.