Fuji X-T3 and X-T4 discussion

[thebrothersthre3]

Used Lut Calc to do a HLG to Arrirec709 LUT. 

Shot in HLG H265 ALL-I 2k at 6400 iso

Lens Turbo focal reducer plus Nikon 50mm f1.8 at f1.8

Dim lighting plus probably a weird color cast from the green wall. 

2K H265 ALL-I works really well in premiere. 

[rawshooter]

10 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Used Lut Calc to do a HLG to Arrirec709 LUT. 

Shot in HLG H265 ALL-I 2k at 6400 iso

Lens Turbo focal reducer plus Nikon 50mm f1.8 at f1.8

Dim lighting plus probably a weird color cast from the green wall. 

2K H265 ALL-I works really well in premiere. 

Can you tell which parameters you used exactly in LUTcalc? 

-F

[thebrothersthre3]

Another shot using the LUT. 

 

19 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

Can you tell which parameters you used exactly in LUTcalc? 

-F

Here is what I did. Used Rec 2100 like Androidlad suggests but I use Amira709 instead of LogC. 

[stefanocps]

On 3/4/2020 at 4:34 PM, Jay60p said:

I consider this Nikkor a specialty lens - specifically for doing smooth cinematic zoom shots, on a tripod.

Since I'm not usually doing this type of shooting I usually use the Fuji 18-55 kit lens or the Fuji 10-24 as

"sets of primes" and don't do zooming during shots. Especially since the kit lens has excellent IOS

for smoothing hand held shots. So for now I am happy to have a smooth zoom in the "normal to telephoto"

range for special setups. It overlaps the coverage of the two Fujinon cinema lenses (18-55 & 50-135).

 

Back to Nikkors: there is a Fotodiox adapter which includes an aperture control ring for using with Nikkor

G type lenses. It is only $2 more. I just got one and I find it will open & close the apertures on the AF Nikkor as well.

But there are no markings, and the full movement from open to closed is only about a centimeter travel.

There are more expensive adapters with more Nikon functions for Fuji here:

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/lens-mount_nikon-g+camera-mount_fujifilm-x

There are DX G lenses which are APS-C with wider zoom possibilities. I am not familiar with these modern nikkors,

but I suspect they will mostly be focus-by-wire. 

Anybody tried these?

 

Hello i am searching this Lens, buy for what i can see It does not seems a parfocal lens.could you clarify this?thank you

[Jay60p]

8 hours ago, stefanocps said:

Hello i am searching this Lens, buy for what i can see It does not seems a parfocal lens.could you clarify this?thank you

To be clear the Nikkor 28-85 we are discussing is here...https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/2885af.htm.

My copy was bought used in a camera shop about 7 months ago for $50 US. It is parfocal in the sense that when focused at 85mm and

after a zoom shot out to 28mm the subject is still in focus. It is not 100% parfocal over the entire range, it drifts slightly at about 45-50mm.

This is only visible when closely examining a 4K image (pixel peeping) shot wide open, and not actually noticeable in any of my zoom shots.

I hate soft focus shots and I avoid shooting wide open with any lens. For $50 this is excellent results. A new auto focus zoom would have

cost 10x-20x as much. A cinema zoom would cost nearly 100x as much.

 

Where did you see it is not parfocal? Under heavy use these older SLR lenses can be worn out to the point that the cams inside are loose.

The worst zoom I ever bought online (and immediately returned) was a Canon FD 28-85 f4 that looked perfect on the outside but rattled

loosely around on the inside when turning the zoom ring, with the image jumping sideways and in and out of focus. Totally worn out.

 

As for the Nikon I can say that (unlike my other Canon FD 35-70) there is no shifting of the image when turning the zoom from one direction to the other,

as well as no looseness in the focus ring that results in image shifting (unlike the 18-55 Canon kit zoom on my T2i). I am extremely happy with this

Nikkor for video.

 

My trouble with Fuji zooms for video on the X cameras is the exposure stepping. I have the 18-55 f2.8-4 kit lens and the 10-24 f4.

I don't do zoom shots with these because the camera steps through a series of exposure adjustments in 1/3rd stop jumps as it

compensates for the lens aperture change from wide to telephoto (kit lens goes from f2.8 to f4). The crazy thing is even the 10-24 zoom

which is supposed to be constant f4 does the same exposure stepping, four times over the zoom range! And this is with ALL camera and

lens settings on manual. If not for this stepping I would have been willing to invest in one of the longer Fuji zooms for video, even if you must

rely on the auto focus to keep it more or less parfocal over a video zoom shot due to the focus-by-wire of the modern lenses.

(But I will say I love that 10-24mm as a set of wide angle primes, the 10mm view is extremely sharp and I love doing walk-thrus

in 4K DCI, it feels like those Kubrick shots in the Overlook Hotel hallways or the interiors in 2001.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stefanocps]

 

Quote

 

i found it in ebay

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Nikon-NIKKOR-28-85mm-f-3-5-4-5-AF-Lens/323781822169?hash=item4b62e686d9:g:MvsAAOxyuPtQ-Fzv

it never  mention to be parfocal, and also in other site i never found this feature specified..so i don t know if it is not the corretc lens i am searching or other

a part of this..how is it solvable the cangh of exposure when zoomin?

 

4 hours ago, Jay60p said:

To be clear the Nikkor 28-85 we are discussing is here...https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/2885af.htm.

My copy was bought used in a camera shop about 7 months ago for $50 US. It is parfocal in the sense that when focused at 85mm and

after a zoom shot out to 28mm the subject is still in focus. It is not 100% parfocal over the entire range, it drifts slightly at about 45-50mm.

This is only visible when closely examining a 4K image (pixel peeping) shot wide open, and not actually noticeable in any of my zoom shots.

I hate soft focus shots and I avoid shooting wide open with any lens. For $50 this is excellent results. A new auto focus zoom would have

cost 10x-20x as much. A cinema zoom would cost nearly 100x as much.

 

Where did you see it is not parfocal? Under heavy use these older SLR lenses can be worn out to the point that the cams inside are loose.

The worst zoom I ever bought online (and immediately returned) was a Canon FD 28-85 f4 that looked perfect on the outside but rattled

loosely around on the inside when turning the zoom ring, with the image jumping sideways and in and out of focus. Totally worn out.

 

As for the Nikon I can say that (unlike my other Canon FD 35-70) there is no shifting of the image when turning the zoom from one direction to the other,

as well as no looseness in the focus ring that results in image shifting (unlike the 18-55 Canon kit zoom on my T2i). I am extremely happy with this

Nikkor for video.

 

My trouble with Fuji zooms for video on the X cameras is the exposure stepping. I have the 18-55 f2.8-4 kit lens and the 10-24 f4.

I don't do zoom shots with these because the camera steps through a series of exposure adjustments in 1/3rd stop jumps as it

compensates for the lens aperture change from wide to telephoto (kit lens goes from f2.8 to f4). The crazy thing is even the 10-24 zoom

which is supposed to be constant f4 does the same exposure stepping, four times over the zoom range! And this is with ALL camera and

lens settings on manual. If not for this stepping I would have been willing to invest in one of the longer Fuji zooms for video, even if you must

rely on the auto focus to keep it more or less parfocal over a video zoom shot due to the focus-by-wire of the modern lenses.

(But I will say I love that 10-24mm as a set of wide angle primes, the 10mm view is extremely sharp and I love doing walk-thrus

in 4K DCI, it feels like those Kubrick shots in the Overlook Hotel hallways or the interiors in 2001.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i found it in ebay

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Nikon-NIKKOR-28-85mm-f-3-5-4-5-AF-Lens/323781822169?hash=item4b62e686d9:g:MvsAAOxyuPtQ-Fzv

it never  mention to be parfocal, and also in other site i never found this feature specified..so i don t know if it is not the corretc lens i am searching or other

a part of this..how is it solvable the cangh of exposure when zoomin?

[Jay60p]

6 hours ago, stefanocps said:

 

i found it in ebay

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Nikon-NIKKOR-28-85mm-f-3-5-4-5-AF-Lens/323781822169?hash=item4b62e686d9:g:MvsAAOxyuPtQ-Fzv

it never  mention to be parfocal, and also in other site i never found this feature specified..so i don t know if it is not the corretc lens i am searching or other

a part of this..how is it solvable the cangh of exposure when zoomin?

 

 

That Ebay link is for a different older Nikkor that is manual focus only, I haven't any experience with that one, let us know how it is if you try it.

Mine is the AF Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5

I also never found any reviews that mention parfocal function for video,

it was designed for 35mm film cameras and is usually reviewed for still photography.

The adapter you use can also affect parfocality, see my post here  -

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/44273-the-mystery-of-the-lost-parfocality/

 

The Change of Exposure solution is easy in post compared to the Fuji zoom exposure stepping which is nearly impossible to correct smoothly.

The Nikkor is f2.8-3.5 which is a 2/3rds stop change, darkening at the telephoto end.

Zoom-In Example: In Final Cut Pro I right-click on a zoom-in shot to open its animation track, and open the color inspector/color board/exposure tab.

Add a keyframe at the beginning of the zoom, go to the end of the zoom and drag the Exposure Highlight control up until the brightness

matches the start of the zoom, this automatically sets the second keyframe.

Result: FCP gradually adjusts the brightness across the zoom and looks like a constant aperture lens shot.

Using the video scopes lets you see what is going on. No doubt the other pro editing programs can do the same.

I prefer brightening over darkening, so I expose for the 28mm wide end of the lens and adjust in post for the darker 85mm end of the shot.

(Add the FCP InertiaCam stabilizer and the speed of your (possibly unsteady hand turned) zoom comes out looking as smooth as a servo controlled

Arri Alexa zoom, I kid you not!)

 

[stefanocps]

6 hours ago, Jay60p said:

That Ebay link is for a different older Nikkor that is manual focus only, I haven't any experience with that one, let us know how it is if you try it.

Mine is the AF Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5

I also never found any reviews that mention parfocal function for video,

it was designed for 35mm film cameras and is usually reviewed for still photography.

The adapter you use can also affect parfocality, see my post here  -

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/44273-the-mystery-of-the-lost-parfocality/

 

The Change of Exposure solution is easy in post compared to the Fuji zoom exposure stepping which is nearly impossible to correct smoothly.

The Nikkor is f2.8-3.5 which is a 2/3rds stop change, darkening at the telephoto end.

Zoom-In Example: In Final Cut Pro I right-click on a zoom-in shot to open its animation track, and open the color inspector/color board/exposure tab.

Add a keyframe at the beginning of the zoom, go to the end of the zoom and drag the Exposure Highlight control up until the brightness

matches the start of the zoom, this automatically sets the second keyframe.

Result: FCP gradually adjusts the brightness across the zoom and looks like a constant aperture lens shot.

Using the video scopes lets you see what is going on. No doubt the other pro editing programs can do the same.

I prefer brightening over darkening, so I expose for the 28mm wide end of the lens and adjust in post for the darker 85mm end of the shot.

(Add the FCP InertiaCam stabilizer and the speed of your (possibly unsteady hand turned) zoom comes out looking as smooth as a servo controlled

Arri Alexa zoom, I kid you not!)

 

So on my search i need to specify af. That is whyni did not find the proper one?

[Jay60p]

yes.

To be even more specific it is the last version of that AF zoom, labeled "AF-n Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5".

That other older lens you found might be just as good, you don't know until it is in your hands.

 

I would wait till it is safe to go shopping in camera stores again. Bring your X-T3 and have adapters for the lens brands

you are interested in. Try out the used vintage zooms with the X-T3 viewfinder in high magnification & focus peaking to see how close

they are to parfocal. See if the zoom ring is smooth and the image does not shift around. See if the focus ring travels far enough for 

precision focusing. Check the glass with a pocket magnifier for mold etc.

Also check what is mounted on the used cameras they are selling, mine was on a 35mm Nikon for sale, but they agreed to sell the

lens separately.  And make sure they take returns for at least a few days.

[stefanocps]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:31 AM, Jay60p said:

yes.

To be even more specific it is the last version of that AF zoom, labeled "AF-n Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5".

That other older lens you found might be just as good, you don't know until it is in your hands.

 

I would wait till it is safe to go shopping in camera stores again. Bring your X-T3 and have adapters for the lens brands

you are interested in. Try out the used vintage zooms with the X-T3 viewfinder in high magnification & focus peaking to see how close

they are to parfocal. See if the zoom ring is smooth and the image does not shift around. See if the focus ring travels far enough for 

precision focusing. Check the glass with a pocket magnifier for mold etc.

Also check what is mounted on the used cameras they are selling, mine was on a 35mm Nikon for sale, but they agreed to sell the

lens separately.  And make sure they take returns for at least a few days.

i have a bunch of vintage lenses, most of them are minolta rokkor, and they are great. What i miss is a parfocal one though and that's why i got interested in this nikon, as is also cheap as you said

[Jay60p]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:22 PM, Jay60p said:

The crazy thing is even the 10-24 zoom which is supposed to be constant f4 does the same exposure stepping, four times over the zoom range! And this is with ALL camera and lens settings on manual.

 

A new post at Fuji Rumors solved the 10-24 stepping mystery for me by reminding me of how my old Canon FD zoom works.
The post mentioned the Fuji 16-55 f2.8 zoom aperture closes down slightly as you go to from telephoto to wide angle.
You get a “constant” aperture by limiting the lens to its telephoto speed. This results in aperture stepping during a zoom.

I remembered my old Canon FD 35-70 f4 does the same thing to hold it's aperture constant.
You can see the aperture close slightly as you turn the zoom ring from telephoto to wide angle.
The difference for video is that the Canon zoom is a gradual aperture change mechanically,
but the Fuji changes are in steps, electronically.

The 18-55 f2.8-4 works differently, apparently with an underlying ISO adjustment that again
I cannot control. (Note that with the 18-55 wide open & in all manual settings, you can actually
do a full range zoom with visible darkening at telephoto and no stepping.)

The question for X-T4 owners: will the new improved smooth ISO changes for auto exposure also
result in smooth zoom shot exposures in the Fuji 18-55?

How about the 18-135 f3.5-5.6 ?

Will all the constant aperture zooms still have the stepping problem?

 

[Jay60p]

New Discovery: How to zoom with Fuji 18-55 and 10-24 without exposure stepping.

With the Fuji 18-55 f2.8-4 zoom:

I was idly playing around with the controls on the X-T3 & kit zoom. I was in video mode, 4k60, shutter at 1/60, iso on manual.  Then I did something I never normally do, I put the lens aperture switch on A. For no particular reason I hit the Exposure Lock (AE-L) button, then I tried zooming. Amazingly there was no exposure stepping. The image darkened at the telephoto end with no compensation from the camera.

Controlling your exposure in this mode is clumsy, so I would only use it for a deliberate zoom shot.
Usually your shutter is fixed for your video frame rate. Your lens needs to be in “A” auto aperture mode. You control the exposure by changing the ISO (either by the top ISO wheel or by the front Command dial). Set the ISO that results in the aperture you want.

You are now set for +/- “zero” exposure in the viewfinder scale. To darken or lighten beyond this you can use the top Exposure Compensation dial.

Hit AE-L and zoom.

You need to use AF-C to keep the shot in focus, and this works best for Slow zooms. In manual focus my 18-55 is not parfocal.

With the Fuji 10-24 f4 zoom:

I can do the same but with one extra requirement. At the 10mm wide angle, I needed to have ISO high enough to result in f5 or above before hitting AE-L button. (At f4.5 I had exposure stepping appear again.)
If you brighten with the exposure compensation dial make sure your aperture does not drop down under f5, then hit AE-L. 

Bizarrely, at the 24mm end I needed to have f9 before hitting AE-L!

The image darkens at the telephoto end and may need an "animation" adjustment in editing-see my previous post above, July 20.

For the first time I can do slow ultra-wide zoom shots with no exposure stepping!
I never noticed this before. Never saw this mentioned online. Maybe the last X-T3 update changed something.

[Dustin]

As a new Fuji xt3 owner, can someone enlighten me on the exposure stepping with the 18-55 2.8-4? You mean to say when you zoom in, not only the f stop changes but the iso does (without technically changing)? Ive only owned this kit for a few days, still learning the ins and outs. Loving it so far. Mainly have just shot 10 bit h.265/Eterna 

[thebrothersthre3]

6 hours ago, Dustin said:

As a new Fuji xt3 owner, can someone enlighten me on the exposure stepping with the 18-55 2.8-4? You mean to say when you zoom in, not only the f stop changes but the iso does (without technically changing)? Ive only owned this kit for a few days, still learning the ins and outs. Loving it so far. Mainly have just shot 10 bit h.265/Eterna 

Yeah there is a shift when zooming for some reason. Its not ISO or F stop. Very weird but pretty much makes zooming in while recording not usable. 

[Dustin]

35 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah there is a shift when zooming for some reason. Its not ISO or F stop. Very weird but pretty much makes zooming in while recording not usable. 

Huh that’s odd! I haven’t noticed yet likely due to spending time with the camera. On that note, which of the affordable primes would you recommend for video? I was looking at the XC and XF models. Wish they had OIS though 

[thebrothersthre3]

All the Fuji primes are awesome. Viltrox is a good option for something a bit more affordable. The 16mm 1.4 and 23mm 1.4 are pretty legendary. I love the 50mm f2. 

[Jay60p]

7 hours ago, Dustin said:

As a new Fuji xt3 owner, can someone enlighten me on the exposure stepping with the 18-55 2.8-4? You mean to say when you zoom in, not only the f stop changes but the iso does (without technically changing)? Ive only owned this kit for a few days, still learning the ins and outs. Loving it so far. Mainly have just shot 10 bit h.265/Eterna 

Sorry if this is confusing, it is difficult to explain.

With the 18-55 the camera is compensating for the change in aperture when zooming (from f2.8 at wide angle to f4 at telephoto) by boosting exposure in 1/3rd stop jumps (my guess it's an underlying ISO that doesn't show ISO change in the viewfinder readout).

Otherwise the zoom shot darkens from wide to telephoto. A gradual change from wide angle to the darker telephoto would be easily correctible in post, but the"blinking" exposure jumps are not. Using the lens auto aperture A, with AE-L lock on, is the only way I've found to get to the natural gradual exposure change of the lens during a zoom.

X-T3 also does this stepping when in auto ISO exposure, or auto shutter, or auto aperture, even with prime lenses.

Use manual exposure settings to avoid this.

You can see the zoom exposure stepping in this video at 4:52 ...

 

And here (read the subtitles) at 0:27 ...

 

Fortunately the X-T4 has a new firmware upgrade that appears to smooth out this stepping, at least in auto exposure...

 

I hope the X-T3 eventually gets a firmware upgrade with the same improvement!

 

[Jay60p]

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

Huh that’s odd! I haven’t noticed yet likely due to spending time with the camera.

One other condition avoids zoom exposure stepping:

If you have the X-T3 settings all on manual and your 18-55 is wide open at f2.8 (at wide angle), then a zoom

does not do the exposure stepping and will darken at the telephoto end during a video shot.

But close the aperture down to f4 or more and the stepping will happen 3 times during a zoom;

and the telephoto will end at the same brightness that the wide angle started at.

Note that 3 steps x 1/3rd stop each = one stop = from f2.8 (wide) to f4 (telephoto).

For still photos this is an advantage, for video it is an unwanted "blinking" artifact.

 

 

 

[Dustin]

7 hours ago, Jay60p said:

One other condition avoids zoom exposure stepping:

If you have the X-T3 settings all on manual and your 18-55 is wide open at f2.8 (at wide angle), then a zoom

does not do the exposure stepping and will darken at the telephoto end during a video shot.

But close the aperture down to f4 or more and the stepping will happen 3 times during a zoom;

and the telephoto will end at the same brightness that the wide angle started at.

Note that 3 steps x 1/3rd stop each = one stop = from f2.8 (wide) to f4 (telephoto).

For still photos this is an advantage, for video it is an unwanted "blinking" artifact.

 

 

 

I’ll have to give this a shot and see for myself. I appreciate the explanation! So this doesn’t happen with the 16-55 f2.8? The only reason I didn’t get that lens was $$ and it didn’t have OIS which I figured would be of much help on the xt3. I do have a zhiyun crane v2 but for everyday shooting I’d prefer a lens with OIS. I’m loving the kit lens otherwise but am definitely seeing the benefits of a 2.8 zoom. I used to have a tamron 17-50 f2.8 that I loved. Might pick up one of the cheap XC prime lens to get that ultra shallow depth of field when needed! 

[Jay60p]

50 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I’ll have to give this a shot and see for myself. I appreciate the explanation! So this doesn’t happen with the 16-55 f2.8? The only reason I didn’t get that lens was $$ and it didn’t have OIS which I figured would be of much help on the xt3...

Unfortunately the 16-55 does do stepping during a zoom. It is the lens being used in the first video I linked above at time 4:52.

That is how the lens maintains a constant aperture, same as my Fuji 10-24 f4 (see my post above, Thursday August 6).

I was thinking the 18-55 was doing some sort of ISO stepping, but putting the lens to my ear I can hear faint clicking that

sounds like aperture stepping while zooming at above f4. So the new X-T4 firmware may not fix this.

The OIS is strong in this lens, great for hand holding in one position. It may be overly strong for panning shots since there is little

ease-out when coming to a stop and appears too abrupt. So I pan slowly with OIS on.

I have several old 35mm SLR zoom lenses that work best for zoom shots. They have manual aperture rings (no stepping) and are very parfocal so they don't rely on the camera's auto focus.  They are also a small fraction of the cost of new Fuji zooms, and use $20 adapters.