Fuji X-T3 and X-T4 discussion

[deezid]

4 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

What? I don’t find waxiness to be an issue but I would never use this camera past iso3200, iso6400 is not “extremely clean”. Wtf are you talking about?

Used an ND filter on the A73 and pushed the aperture down on the X-T3 to F13.
Both running at ISO6400 on a well lit stand at the Photokina.
The X-T3 shows less noise (more like fine grain) and no noise reduction artifacts.

[padam]

8 hours ago, Simon Young said:

I just watched this video. The grade is debatable but there are plenty of skin tones in there that don't show the least bit of waxiness.

He also compares the skin tones with the 1DXII and the A7III. The Canon looks the waxiest and the Sony looks the worst.

Wait, what? It's always funny, that the camera one does not own always looks the waxiest

I am not sure why people jump to sudden (and of course one-sided) conclusions after one short single test. The WB on the Sony has to be set differently to the others (maybe even the X-T3 and 1DX II should be set a little differently) and yes it needs a handful or tweaking.

[Simon Young]

21 minutes ago, deezid said:

Used an ND filter on the A73 and pushed the aperture down on the X-T3 to F13.
Both running at ISO6400 on a well lit stand at the Photokina.
The X-T3 shows less noise (more like fine grain) and no noise reduction artifacts.

I’m sorry but does all this whining about “waxiness” come from when you went to Photokina, put an sd card in an attached X-t3, filmed inside the convention, took the card home and subsequently went online to share your findings with us? Hahahhahahahahahah. 

[Jimmy]

I'm interested to see the samples... But would like to know settings, lens, lighting conditions, WB type, how it was exposed etc

Let's see if it is an issue that can be pinpointed.

[deezid]

41 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

I'm interested to see the samples... But would like to know settings, lens, lighting conditions, WB type, how it was exposed etc

Let's see if it is an issue that can be pinpointed.

Seems like the issue was using Astia with highlights and shadows adjusted.
F-Log with sharpening and nr all the way turned down and inter frame nr turned off in 4K DCI All Intra looks great actually (with a little bit of midtone contrast added to skin tones)

[jonpais]

@deezid can’t you tell when you’re being trolled? 

“camera x produces dog shit colors. in fact, every test online shows it has dog shit colors, all their cameras have puke color, but I just had to find out for myself, so I bought it anyway. and you know what? the colors are crap, just like I thought! I’d let it go, but I paid for it with a gift card from me mum, so it has sentimental value. anyhoo, I never tire of telling everyone how shiite the colors are, it gives me a certain thrill. I sold camera y bcz blah blah. I got an insane deal here on camera z (over 50% off retail bcz everyone but me hates it) which produces 100X better colors than the one I just let go of (maybe you even know it - didn’t you just finish making a film with it?) even though their color science is indistinguishable but my eyesight is better than anyone else’s bcz I drink fresh yogurt every day. perhaps you just need to learn how to operate the buttons.” ? 

 

[Simon Young]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

@deezid can’t you tell when you’re being trolled? 

“camera x produces dog shit colors. in fact, every test online shows it has dog shit colors, all their cameras have puke color, but I just had to find out for myself, so I bought it anyway. and you know what? the colors are crap, just like I thought! I’d let it go, but I paid for it with a gift card from me mum, so it has sentimental value. anyhoo, I never tire of telling everyone how shiite the colors are, it gives me a certain thrill. I sold camera y bcz blah blah. I got an insane deal here on camera z (over 50% off retail bcz everyone but me hates it) which produces 100X better colors than the one I just let go of (maybe you even know it - didn’t you just finish making a film with it?) even though their color science is indistinguishable but my eyesight is better than anyone else’s bcz I drink fresh yogurt every day. perhaps you just need to learn how to operate the buttons.” ? 

 

@jonpais Can't you tell when a lot of people on here have had enough of your condescending bullshit and know-it-all attitude with nothing to show for?

[frontfocus]

24 minutes ago, deezid said:

Seems like the issue was using Astia with highlights and shadows adjusted.

Some of the film simulations are made to produce waxy skin. They dialed it down after many raised their voices about it. But it‘s not a bug it‘s a feature. Fuji cameras are very popular in parts of asia and waxy skin there is often what people, especially young females, are looking for. 

of course it would be best if it were a menu option

[Jimmy]

26 minutes ago, deezid said:

Seems like the issue was using Astia with highlights and shadows adjusted.
F-Log with sharpening and nr all the way turned down and inter frame nr turned off in 4K DCI All Intra looks great actually (with a little bit of midtone contrast added to skin tones)

Thanks... hard to know what these film simulations might be doing... Eterna is the only one I use really, as I know exactly what that is doing and adding the LUT in post to f-log or adding it as a film simulation is exactly the same really.... F-log + eterna lut only gives slightly better results when really pushing the grade, and even then, it is only slight. 

The people who were getting waxing on the XT2, was that before f-log?

[jonpais]

I got plastic looking skin shooting in broad daylight with Classic Chrome before F Log. I haven’t shot with it since the update.

edit: I did shoot a couple clips with the Veydras after the update, didn’t notice any change.

[Mattias Burling]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

The people who were getting waxing on the XT2, was that before f-log?

I never got it before or after the update. And I've never seen it from my Sony which is supposed to be even worse. I suspect me never fiddling with the settings of the PPs have something to do with it.

[deezid]

Here's some test footage from Photokina (will upload more and comparisons with the A73 later)
1st clip: F-Log All-Intra 400mbit 4K DCI, 25p, sharpening/nr -4 and inter frame nr off, native ISO640
Provided a graded version as well with some midtone contrast added to skin tones as well
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M9SiUayOkdg7KYFUHpwpKC5fET6mdIPI

Sorry for the shakiness.
After a full day of photokina with an unstabilized lens it's quite hard to shoot stable footage...
Shutter was at 1/100s to compensate for the strong lights.

[Brian Williams]

On 9/28/2018 at 12:30 PM, Jimmy said:

What lens were you using?... the 18-55 seems fine for dolly/pan type shots, especially at the wide end.

https://www.fujirumors.com/future-fujifilm-x-h1-firmware-update-to-improve-tilting-and-panning-ibis-performance/

It's as if Fuji is reading our little forum here.

[Jimmy]

1 minute ago, Brian Williams said:

https://www.fujirumors.com/future-fujifilm-x-h1-firmware-update-to-improve-tilting-and-panning-ibis-performance/

It's as if Fuji is reading our little forum here.

haha perfect.... 

Maybe we need to make some posts about needing 10 bit and improved AF ?

Love Fuji though... I bought the XH1 just after the XT3 news, safe in the knowledge that they would drop some nice firmware upgrades soon

[Attila Bakos]

17 hours ago, androidlad said:

As discussed before, HEVC smoothing filters SAO and SIS contributed to that waxiness.

Out of curiosity I created two videos from a UHD sized TIF with lots of fine detail, once with SAO and SIS enabled, then disabled. I used the x265 library included in ffmpeg using CRF 3 for a raised bitrate and no other parameters besides SAO/SIS. I see absolutely no difference between the two versions even at 400% magnification. Then I thought maybe it's because there's no movement as it's a still image. So I downloaded some DNG's from Blackmagic's website, exported a short clip in Resolve using lossless AVI, and used the same ffmpeg scripts. Again, zero difference between the smoothed and non-smoothed versions. I checked the files with mediainfo to see the if the encoding parameters were passed to the x265 library and they are there.

To make it short: if the hardware encoder works in a similar way (and I didn't fuck up my test somehow), I wouldn't worry about detail loss.

[Mattias Burling]

That's great news. I find it tilts/pans very nice as it sits so it can only get better.

[crevice]

I am in a dilemma. I currently have a Sony A7III and blackmagic pocket 4k on preorder. I have not been blown away by the pocket 4k footage. The specs are great, but so far the footage I have seen seems very similar to the GH5, which doesn’t do it for me. Where the XT-3 footage has looked great and has a less sterile look to my eyes. I shoot photos and videos for what it’s worth  

I am contemplating selling all my Sony gear, canceling pocket 4k preorder, and buying an XT-3 with 4 lenses. I would use it as a hybrid camera. I am a hobbyist that does no paid work. But, leaving full frame scares me, though shooting with Fujifilm seems more “fun”, for lack of a better word. The look of the body, film simulation, and lenses are what draws me. 

I would love to hear any opinions on my first world problem. Also, just for the sake of it also being a huge pro for going Fuji - if I sold my Sony gear - canceled  pocket 4 - and still bought an xt-3 with lenses, I would still get back almost $4,000, since my Sony camera and lenses net me back a lot of money. So yes, money plays a factor here as well. 

[Jimmy]

1 minute ago, crevice said:

I am in a dilemma. I currently have a Sony A7III and blackmagic pocket 4k on preorder. I have not been blown away by the pocket 4k footage. The specs are great, but so far the footage I have seen seems very similar to the GH5, which doesn’t do it for me. Where the XT-3 footage has looked great and has a less sterile look to my eyes. I shoot photos and videos for what it’s worth  

I am contemplating selling all my Sony gear, canceling pocket 4k preorder, and buying an XT-3 with 4 lenses. I would use it as a hybrid camera. I am a hobbyist that does no paid work. But, leaving full frame scares me, though shooting with Fujifilm seems more “fun”, for lack of a better world. The look of the body, film simulation, and lenses are what draws me. 

I would love to hear any opinnions on my first world problem. Also, just for the sake of it also being a huge pro for going Fuji - if I sold my Sony gear - canceled  pocket 4 - and still bought an xt-3 with lenses, I would still get back almost $4,000, since my Sony camera and lenses net me back a lot of money. So yes, money plays a factor here as well. 

It sounds like you'll be able to buy some decent primes, so the drop from FF will be hard to notice. i changed from Canon 5DIII to XT2 and didn't feel I was missing out and yes, the fun factor really is a thing... I take the XT2 (now XH1) out alot more than I used to with the 5DIII.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the cameras you have mentioned, so things like fun factor are now a valid consideration.  

[heart0less]

6 minutes ago, crevice said:

I am in a dilemma. I currently have a Sony A7III and blackmagic pocket 4k on preorder. I have not been blown away by the pocket 4k footage. The specs are great, but so far the footage I have seen seems very similar to the GH5, which doesn’t do it for me. Where the XT-3 footage has looked great and has a less sterile look to my eyes. I shoot photos and videos for what it’s worth  

I am contemplating selling all my Sony gear, canceling pocket 4k preorder, and buying an XT-3 with 4 lenses. I would use it as a hybrid camera. I am a hobbyist that does no paid work. But, leaving full frame scares me, though shooting with Fujifilm seems more “fun”, for lack of a better word. The look of the body, film simulation, and lenses are what draws me. 

I would love to hear any opinions on my first world problem. Also, just for the sake of it also being a huge pro for going Fuji - if I sold my Sony gear - canceled  pocket 4 - and still bought an xt-3 with lenses, I would still get back almost $4,000, since my Sony camera and lenses net me back a lot of money. So yes, money plays a factor here as well. 

Just stop looking for a 'better camera'.

There will always be a new one, just around the corner with better specs, etc.

You've already got one of the best consumer cameras available.

Go and enjoy it.

[Brian Williams]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

haha perfect.... 

Maybe we need to make some posts about needing 10 bit and improved AF ?

Love Fuji though... I bought the XH1 just after the XT3 news, safe in the knowledge that they would drop some nice firmware upgrades soon

I know, I hate this, now questioning whether I should return x-t3 while I can and get a second hand x-h1.