The best new camera to purchase in 2018!

[anonim]

If a question means asking for (always redundant as completely subjective) personal advice - I'll dare to answer in smart-ass-sounding manner (so please pardon me for it) 

Кееp vision, make it live and learn not to be frustrated. Frustration is part of peripheral thinking. While and if you are really fully focused on creation, frustration at those moments disappear. Person who feel frustration in a process of creation, can not make truly art - if it is goal. Actually, enjoy in overcoming and transcending minor or major obstacles is the most powerful fuel for being dignified with important vision (and then being dignified with capability to bring it to a suggestive representative life)... 

[kye]

I think art is always about chasing perfection, and inspiration disappears when "good enough" becomes a part of your mindset.  Artists are therefore always dissatisfied to some extent because of this.

I've heard many people talk about the level of artistry when the tools become so familiar to the artist that they are more like an extension of the artists body than separate to them, and this is a valid perspective.

The tools shouldn't matter, but if you wanted to make electronic music but found yourself in the 1700's and only had an orchestra, no amount of violin practice would take your mind off the tools and how they just don't do what you want.

The tools I want are only a few years away.  When they arrive no-one will be arguing that no-one should buy them because the cameras of 2018 could do everything for everyone

 

3 hours ago, anonim said:

Кееp vision, make it live and learn not to be frustrated.

I'm "making it live" now, but it's the difference between the vision and the reality that is the source of the frustration!

[Anaconda_]

16 minutes ago, kye said:

The tools shouldn't matter

While I agree in many aspects, things like cameras with new abilities and higher numbers can get you excited and motivated to film more and create more. When I bought my last new camera all I could think about was how to film this and that, and how certain, very boring things like my drive to work, could look through that new camera.

Similarly when I got a new microphone I was excited to use it and have since learned about the importance of mic placement, how to record various things and even how to mix and master music. Something I've never done before, but now do on a weekly basis.

The saying "a workman is only as good as his tools" is kind of half way there. It's more about your inspiration than the tools, but if the tools give you inspiration then different, possibly even 'better' tools can certainly hold a workman back.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

The saying "a workman is only as good as his tools" is kind of half way there. It's more about your inspiration than the tools, but if the tools give you inspiration then different, possibly even 'better' tools can certainly hold a workman back.

Being a cabinet maker by trade, I can tell you first hand that that statement is not entirely true. A craftsman will make any tool work. Sure better tools are always helpful, but a master at his craft will improvise and make any tool work. 

I often reference Kendy Ty and what he did with a t2i and the OG Sigma 30mm lens. It was truly astonishing work and holds up today. I actually prefer the look of his t2i films over his a6300 films. Technically, the a6300 image is better but there is something missing.

I often muse about getting a second camera and I instantaneously gravitate toward a GH5 or a Fuji or even a C100 or FS5 because they give me something I don’t have with my 5D3, but deep down, I really just want one of the cheapest cameras I can find. Something that will require me to massage the image. In the end, that improvisation will make me a better craftsman... I think.

A year or so ago, myself, @PannySVHS and @mat33 discussed a short film challenge involving 8bit 1080p cameras. As most challenges usually die, so did this, but I often think about going back to the idea of challenging myself with an entry level camera. The D3400 has a Flat Profile. The EOS-M has the ML bitrate hack, obviously the GH1/GH2 hacks. The E-M5ii has some of the best IBIS around with a nice Flat Profile and an all-i codec. Or maybe a GX85 hacked by @BTM_Pix for CineLikeD used in conjunction with @Sage ‘s brilliant emotive color could be equally appealing. 

Anyway, I appreciate the sentiment by the OP and as my end of summer GAS calls out to me, maybe I’ll once again explore one of these options instead of dropping thousands of dollars on a new system I don’t really need.

[Anaconda_]

@mercer unless I'm reading that wrong, your whole post validates my statement you quoted and said isn't entirely true haha. I was saying the best tools May be technically better, but if they don't make you feel inspired, they won't help. 

I guess with technical stuff, like joinery, welding and that kind of thing it doesn't apply. But give an musician the best guitar ever, it doesn't mean they'll play like Clapton. 

I heard recently someone saying that just because cameras are cheaper, doesn't mean everyone can make a movie. People have had pen and paper for centuries, but not everyone's writing like Shakespeare. Inspiration is more important that tools. But certain tools can help you feel inspired.

Edit: I also get pumped to use the gx80 with the hack and use it professionaly on the same shoots as  that mic I mentioned.

[thebrothersthre3]

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

Being a cabinet maker by trade, I can tell you first hand that that statement is not entirely true. A craftsman will make any tool work. Sure better tools are always helpful, but a master at his craft will improvise and make any tool work. 

I often reference Kendy Ty and what he did with a t2i and the OG Sigma 30mm lens. It was truly astonishing work and holds up today. I actually prefer the look of his t2i films over his a6300 films. Technically, the a6300 image is better but there is something missing.

I often muse about getting a second camera and I instantaneously gravitate toward a GH5 or a Fuji or even a C100 or FS5 because they give me something I don’t have with my 5D3, but deep down, I really just want one of the cheapest cameras I can find. Something that will require me to massage the image. In the end, that improvisation will make me a better craftsman... I think.

A year or so ago, myself, @PannySVHS and @mat33 discussed a short film challenge involving 8bit 1080p cameras. As most challenges usually die, so did this, but I often think about going back to the idea of challenging myself with an entry level camera. The D3400 has a Flat Profile. The EOS-M has the ML bitrate hack, obviously the GH1/GH2 hacks. The E-M5ii has some of the best IBIS around with a nice Flat Profile and an all-i codec. Or maybe a GX85 hacked by @BTM_Pix for CineLikeD used in conjunction with @Sage ‘s brilliant emotive color could be equally appealing. 

Anyway, I appreciate the sentiment by the OP and as my end of summer GAS calls out to me, maybe I’ll once again explore one of these options instead of dropping thousands of dollars on a new system I don’t really need.

The EOS-M is pretty cool but the ISO performance is pretty terrible. 

I own a GX85, its a pretty darn good camera for the price, especially used. Not as good as the GH5 in low light or dynamic range, but its nice. IBIS is awesome too. 

[Dan Sherman]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Anyway, I appreciate the sentiment by the OP and as my end of summer GAS calls out to me, maybe I’ll once again explore one of these options instead of dropping thousands of dollars on a new system I don’t really need.

Try a Panasonic G7 4k 8bit 4:2:0 It's an excellent small light camera, and its on sale for just under $500 at B&H right now.

this is a short test clip i shot right after i got the camera.

 

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

Try a Panasonic G7 4k 8bit 4:2:0 It's an excellent small light camera, and its on sale for just under $500 at B&H right now.

this is a short test clip i shot right after i got the camera.

 

I had the G7 for a while and had a lot of fun with it. I really learned that I was horrible at color grading by owning that camera. Here’s a frame grab from one of my more successful jobs with the G7 and an old Cosmicar 25mm c-mount lens...

[BTM_Pix]

3 hours ago, kye said:

The tools shouldn't matter, but if you wanted to make electronic music but found yourself in the 1700's and only had an orchestra, no amount of violin practice would take your mind off the tools and how they just don't do what you want.

The tools I want are only a few years away.  When they arrive no-one will be arguing that no-one should buy them because the cameras of 2018 could do everything for everyone

To be fair, if you found yourself wanting to make electronic music in the 1700's then no amount of Moogs and Oberheims would take your mind off having no way to actually plug them in

It is interesting that you make a comparison to electronic music though as those artists at its forefront in the period between the mid 70s and 80s by and large produced their better work during that time rather than latterly when the tools at their disposal became infinitely more powerful.

The limitations were simultaneously something they had to work around (which often breeds creativity) but also prevented them from having too many choices which can lead to being filled with crippling doubt and/or ending up disappearing up their own arse.

So, for me, the link between creativity and the tools is not always the obvious way round.

[mercer]

With an eff around camera, I am leaning toward something with IBIS, so I’d probably look at the G85 or an Olympus instead of the G7, but yes, the G7 is still one of the best deals around!!!

@Dan Sherman

21 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

@mercer unless I'm reading that wrong, your whole post validates my statement you quoted and said isn't entirely true haha. I was saying the best tools May be technically better, but if they don't make you feel inspired, they won't help. 

I guess with technical stuff, like joinery, welding and that kind of thing it doesn't apply. But give an musician the best guitar ever, it doesn't mean they'll play like Clapton. 

I heard recently someone saying that just because cameras are cheaper, doesn't mean everyone can make a movie. People have had pen and paper for centuries, but not everyone's writing like Shakespeare. Inspiration is more important that tools. But certain tools can help you feel inspired.

Edit: I also get pumped to use the gx80 with the hack and use it professionaly on the same shoots as  that mic I mentioned.

I think I was agreeing with you even if it didn’t read that way.

Theoretically a router should be a better tool than a chisel for a dovetail joint but some of the old timers could take a chisel, sharpen it on some concrete and make a perfect dovetail joint in a pinch. It’s quite astonishing to witness.

I agree about tools. Using Final Draft to write a screenplay is way more inspiring than creating a word document. It’s intuitive and lets your brain concentrate on the creative.

I look forward to seeing what you get out of the GX85, in a lot of ways it will be more fun than shooting with the P4K. I really enjoy your LS300 videos, so I’m sure the GX85 ones will look great.

[mercer]

To add, if you want to try a fun camera, pick up an FZ2500. I’ve had two of them and I regret selling both. I have a very specific project I’m working on this winter and chances are I’ll be buying a third one. There’s just something really special about CineLikeD with a S16 sized sensor. 

[Anaconda_]

Thanks man. I've been using it for over a year. Not wanting to derail the topic, but here's some recent shoots I've done. All with the Viltrox booster and the old Sigma 30mm 1.4 on a gx80. 

Unless mentioned otherwise in the description, the sound and image was a one man (me) job. All GX80 with the Viltrox booster and Sigma 30mm 1.4 EF mount. It's a brilliant little camera.

[Dan Sherman]

37 minutes ago, mercer said:

I had the G7 for a while and had a lot of fun with it. I really learned that I was horrible at color grading by owning that camera. Here’s a frame grab from one of my more successful jobs with the G7 and an old Cosmicar 25mm c-mount lens...

Personally, I've found the key to getting good results from lower bit depth / chroma sub sampling cameras, is ETTR, and getting WB spot on in camera. ETTR is cake with zebras, and an expo disc makes setting wb all but idiot proof!

[mercer]

12 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

Personally, I've found the key to getting good results from lower bit depth / chroma sub sampling cameras, is ETTR, and getting WB spot on in camera. ETTR is cake with zebras, and an expo disc makes setting wb all but idiot proof!

Do you think an expo disk is better than using an X-Rite?

I’ve never used either but I am considering an X-Rite as I progress more into my short films.  

[PannySVHS]

@mercer Glenn, I have shot a 48hour challenge in HD with the G7 this year, a whole bunch 8bit and 10bit HD and 4K. So I am standing by it, let´s have some 8bit fun. @mat33 I had been really looking forward to do that 8bit challenge with you, Glenn and others! I would suggest all cameras without IBIS or IBIS off, 8bit internal HD. No GH5 though, cuz it´s too good:)

Glenn, I would recommend you to buy a G85, if you can get it for less than 500usd. Hope KidzRevil will return with some of his G85 awesomeness. If you wanna go really cheap, get a G7. I think G(X)85 has  obvious better color science. But graded all Pannys are great.

@Anaconda_ Great colors and lens choice! Looking lovely. How is manual focussing, is it fun to do? Fly by wire or mechanical?

[mercer]

30 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Thanks man. I've been using it for over a year. Not wanting to derail the topic, but here's some recent shoots I've done. All with the Viltrox booster and the old Sigma 30mm 1.4 on a gx80. 

Unless mentioned otherwise in the description, the sound and image was a one man (me) job. All GX80 with the Viltrox booster and Sigma 30mm 1.4 EF mount. It's a brilliant little camera.

I don’t think it’s a derail. You’re showing some footage from an inexpensive camera that you already own... if that isn’t the heart of this post, I don’t know what is. 

It could be my phone but it seems YouTube did a hatchet job on that video. I can tell how good it looks from the thumbnail but the video is ton of artifacts and pixelation. I’ll have a look on my computer in a few minutes. I love the handheld IBIS though.

[Anaconda_]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

It could be my phone

Weirdly, I posted that from my phone and it looked and sounded trash. Now on a computer and it's how I remembered it haha. If singer-songwriter isn't your music though, I filmed this one on the weekend - same setup as before, but they wanted to use their own, very fancy looking mic haha. 

 

11 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Great colors and lens choice! Looking lovely. How is manual focussing, is it fun to do? Fly by wire or mechanical?

Thanks! It's mechanical, and quite a 'heavy' ring, kind of tough to turn, but it's definitely not going to slip with you wanting it to. Unfortunately, when you see the judders in some videos, that's me turning the tough focus ring, which also moves the Viltrox a bit, so the IBIS doesn't know what's going on. Bit of a shame, but I can live with it. I think it's just my lens, maybe another of the same model would be fine.

I ETTR with BTM's hack then turn the LCD to B&W and put peaking on the most sensitive and roll, one take, mistakes and all. I don't mind it occasionally going out of focus with my movements, but I want to make sure I can snap it back easily when I need to.

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

@mercer Glenn, I have shot a 48hour challenge in HD with the G7 this year, a whole bunch 8bit and 10bit HD and 4K. So I am standing by it, let´s have some 8bit fun. @mat33 I had been really looking forward to do that 8bit challenge with you, Glenn and others! I would suggest all cameras without IBIS or IBIS off, 8bit internal HD. No GH5 though, cuz it´s too good:)

Glenn, I would recommend you to buy a G85, if you can get it for less than 500usd. Hope KidzRevil will return with some of his G85 awesomeness. If you wanna go really cheap, get a G7. I think G(X)85 has  obvious better color science. But graded all Pannys are great.

@Anaconda_ Great colors and lens choice! Looking lovely. How is manual focussing, is it fun to do? Fly by wire or mechanical?

Marty, that sounds awesome, I look forward to seeing your recent work. I still watch your bicycle short, from the G6, on occasion and is a major influence on my desire to shoot short pieces on older, cheaper cams. 

I’m very much still interested in an 8bit short film challenge but I can’t agree to no IBIS... that is probably one of my prerequisites for one of these cams. As I said, I’m definitely buying an FZ2500 for a film project this winter but I wouldn’t use that for our challenge. Honestly I’m really looking forward to digging out my c-mounts and see them get some use with IBIS. So I guess, it will be down to the E-M5ii, the E-M10iii (my friend has one and I’ve been really impressed with his results and Olympus is selling refurbished units for less than $400) and then finally maybe the G85. The G85 makes a lot of sense because the 4K crop allows me to use my 12.5mm c-mounts with IBIS and gives me a microphone input.

Maybe internal audio should be a rule for the challenge as well?

[PannySVHS]

G85 would already be too posh I think:) Yeah, I have been having fun with the Fujinon 12.5 and my Gx85. I have to engage the electronic IBIS too in order to avoid dark corners jumping in with stabilization. Such a super fun lens and by one stop sharper than my SLRMagic 12mm. I think it becomes a 15mm or 16mm in mft terms with that 4k crop plus eIBIS extra crop. Like a cheaper Leica 15mm and helios character:)

I would vote for a EM10iii if you can get it for less than 400. Shoot it a 3200, 4000 and 6000K and be happy with the oly colors I would guess. Internal audio only, would not mind though neither suggest it. Love to see some of your beautiful free roaming or nicely locked camera work again!!

[Dan Sherman]

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

Do you think an expo disk is better than using an X-Rite?

I’ve never used either but I am considering an X-Rite as I progress more into my short films.  

I have them both, and in my opinion the Expo-disk is better for setting WB in the camera. It works like a filter,  so all you do is hold it over the front of the lens and set custom wb.
You don't have to worry about holding it perfectly square to the lens to avoid reflections like with an x-rite. You also don't have to worry about targeting the correct swatch on the x-rite from multiple feet away.

For checking/setting wb and color correctness in post an expo-disc is usless, and you need a color checker.

If/when you go to buy a color checker, I's recommend you buy the X-Rite i1 Filmmaker Kit. Yea, its more expensive because the iDisplay pro comes with it, but you will eventually want to calibrate your monitor(s) anyway, and you save $50-$60 buying it as a kit.

 

here is a cheesy platylist showing how to use an expo-disc!