bsalisbury Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I have a GH5 and Sony FDR AX-700. I really like the Sony, especially since I don't have to worry about autofocus (alas, aging eyes). I use it for both personal and professional work (disability policy related video interviews and stories). In any event, this short video gives you a sense of the Sony colors - less than a minute on our dahlias - mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimor Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Always thought those camcorders were for porn webrunner5 and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 2 hours ago, mercer said: A camcorder with a built in lens and Nd filters, with XLR inputs with the camcorder form factor just sounds really appealing to me right now... FWIW, the feature film that won the audience award at the film festival I help run was shot by a novice on a FX-1000. It looked pretty lousy. Didn't matter to the audience though. The writing and acting carried the film. The only feature length narrative I've ever managed to shoot and edit was done on a Canon XH A1...no regrets. I like great IQ too and will pursue it, don't get me wrong, but just shoot your thing with whatever it takes. Nobody outside of other film people really care about the tools of the craft, just the results. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted September 22, 2018 Super Members Share Posted September 22, 2018 48 minutes ago, Grimor said: Always thought those camcorders were for porn There is real risk that the other types of camera are actually becoming porn though. 2 hours ago, mercer said: Yup great point, I just realized that other than XLRs and the smaller MP sensor, I really wouldn’t be getting a lot more even with the X1... and at that price I may as well spend a little more and go with the larger sensor DVX200... Or you could up the sensor size even further and go for this combo of LS300 and Angenieux 25-250 which will give you a 10x zoom camcorder/cinema camera hybrid (which we will brand as a Cinecorder )with an aesthetic that I think you can get behind for around £3K used all in. Add in the Ninja V and you've got 4K60p as well for another £600. Kisaha and newfoundmass 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 8 hours ago, bsalisbury said: I have a GH5 and Sony FDR AX-700. I really like the Sony, especially since I don't have to worry about autofocus (alas, aging eyes). I use it for both personal and professional work (disability policy related video interviews and stories). In any event, this short video gives you a sense of the Sony colors - less than a minute on our dahlias - Thanks for posting this. I must say, the Sony camcorders do look nice and seem feature packed with sLog and PDAF. The NX variant does add the XLRs and top handle for only a little more, though. Do you record internal audio with the AX700? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 12 hours ago, mercer said: With my desire to work on more films and longer ones, mixed with my style of run and gun, one man band filmmaking, having a second interchangeable lens camera system, sounds like an expensive and time consuming endeavor for someone who is mostly interested in telling stories first and cinematography second or third and audio tenth. Can't you find a budding aspiring cinematographer to work with? As cinematography isn't your #1 priority (writing is) that would very simply answer all your camera concerns! You use instead what he decides for you is best for your project. And of course find some willing sucker to do sound too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Can't you find a budding aspiring cinematographer to work with? As cinematography isn't your #1 priority (writing is) that would very simply answer all your camera concerns! You use instead what he decides for you is best for your project. And of course find some willing sucker to do sound too.... Well, until I came to this site, I thought a lot of filmmakers were one man band. I guess coming to age in the 90s when indie cinema was in its glory days, you heard stories of Soderberg shooting Sex Lies and Videotape, or Kevin Smith shooting Clerks, or Robert Rodriguez shooting El Mariachi for $7000. These guys wrote their scripts, rented a camera, directed and shot their film. I love operating the camera and the impromptu shot creation, mixed with storyboards and shot lists... I just don’t care about codecs, follow focus units, and half the things a lot of folks around here care about. I care about story and composition. I don’t think others are wrong, I’m the weirdo around here. kaylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I have the Sony PXW Z90, bigger brother to the NX80 and AX700. Its pretty good if you want built in ND's, pro audio inputs and full customization over picture profiles. Also I much prefer camcorder ergonomics to ANY mirrorless or dslr, just feels right in the hand. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, Mako Sports said: I have the Sony PXW Z90, bigger brother to the NX80 and AX700. Its pretty good if you want built in ND's, pro audio inputs and full customization over picture profiles. Also I much prefer camcorder ergonomics to ANY mirrorless or dslr, just feels right in the hand. I was actually just reading about that model. With the 10bit 1080p, it almost seems like the S16, camcorder version of the FS5... just $2000 cheaper. If I decide to go forward with this, the Z90 is on the top of my list. Do you use sLog with it? What other PP does it offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylee Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, mercer said: Robert Rodriguez shooting El Mariachi for $7000 have you read Rebel Without A Crew? Ill bet u have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, kaylee said: have you read Rebel Without A Crew? Ill bet u have! Yeah I have it, not in a while though... strange to think that so much time has passed, but I read that back in my 20s... ugh early 20s. Yuck. Great book though. If anybody ever thinks they are bogged down with minutiae, read that book... it will get you on track. kaylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylee Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, mercer said: Yeah I have it, not in a while though... strange to think that so much time has passed, but I read that back in my 20s... ugh early 20s. Yuck. Great book though. If anybody ever thinks they are bogged down with minutiae, read that book... it will get you on track. Yeah! You might want to reread it, I did, and it is AMAZING how much i know about filmmaking now compared to the first time i read it years ago. i mean i still dont kno wtf im doing lol... but. its getting better anyway, remember how RR cut Mariachi *on video*, and THAT got the film sold?!?!? All the screwy cuts that didnt work, which he THEN made part of the style of the film...? crazy stuff!! anyway, MY first short that im finishing right now doesnt have dialogue because i was literally like Eff that Im not dealing with recording audio on the set, so I wrote something without dialogue ? glad i did~! Easy! and then it also has that international no subtitles "transcending language" kind of flair maybe write something w/o dialogue, something short, just for the ease of shooting it @mercer...? just a thought!! mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 s16 was the standard for indie film productions for the simple fact that it was portable, cheap and you didn't have to fuss around with focus. You put a wide angle lens on and put it in f5.6 and you are golden. Camcorders offer much of the same conveniences. But I can't help but feel the newer variants do look dedicedly more video. s16 should be max 2k like the digital bolex. Having said that, I have seen xc10 footage which I would say is filmic: That would be my first choice. My setup for the kind of intimate filmmaking you are talking about is to have a s16 digital camera, and have my talent wired with a tascam dl-10 and team lav mics. Gives u great freedom and mobility. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, mercer said: I was actually just reading about that model. With the 10bit 1080p, it almost seems like the S16, camcorder version of the FS5... just $2000 cheaper. If I decide to go forward with this, the Z90 is on the top of my list. Do you use sLog with it? What other PP does it offer? Yeah I sort of treat it like S16 camera, Ive used Slog 2 and 3 with it few times for when I need the most possible ddynamic range. but i'm just personally not a big fan of shooting Log. However it also has Cine 1 - 4, and HLG 1,2, and 3. I really like Cine 2 for neutral lighting, Cine 4 for lowlight, and Cine 1 - HLG 3 for high dynamic range situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelbb Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 A 1" sensor is the new standard for camcorders from all the manufacturers. The Canon XF400 is worth a look 4K/60p DPAF C-log 2xSD card etc etc https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/camcorders/professional/xf400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Or you could up the sensor size even further and go for this combo of LS300 and Angenieux 25-250 which will give you a 10x zoom camcorder/cinema camera hybrid (which we will brand as a Cinecorder )with an aesthetic that I think you can get behind for around £3K used all in. Add in the Ninja V and you've got 4K60p as well for another £600. Plus if he likes vintage lenses and wants a smaller sensor so he doesnt have to fuss around with focusing he can use the ls300 in s16 mode and get some nice s16 super speed zeiss lenses for cheap to give him a similar look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 @mercer yes, I remember your fondness for the XC10 Reading your other comments, and talking in the context of getting the job done, I think there's a few approaches you could take, depending on how you shoot. 1) just use the 5D for everything. You already own it, no work in post matching cameras, and it's only one setup to carry around with one type of battery, media, etc. 2) get additional cameras. If you go this route then if at all possible I'd suggest matching brands so the colour science (which I remember is a priority for you) matches easily in post. You may even consider another ML camera as extra time on set may pay off in editing (or may not!). If you use multiple cameras on set it may even be worthwhile matching lenses and battery types in order to cut down on what you're carrying around. It sounds to me like buying a camcorder may be tempting simply because a DSLR and ML is fiddly and annoying, which I totally understand. I challenge you to think about the film you are making and ask yourself how many shots in the final edit will be able to be captured with a camcorder. Most films these days have relatively shallow DoF on almost all shots except wide and establishing shots, and although a camcorder would be great for those, will it really be more efficient to have an entire second setup instead of the camera you are already using for most other shots? IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 13 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Or you could up the sensor size even further and go for this combo of LS300 and Angenieux 25-250 which will give you a 10x zoom camcorder/cinema camera hybrid (which we will brand as a Cinecorder )with an aesthetic that I think you can get behind for around £3K used all in. Add in the Ninja V and you've got 4K60p as well for another £600. Or keep an eye out for pricing on the Venus Optic's new Laowa 25-100mm T2.9 cine zoom. 5 hours ago, mercer said: Well, until I came to this site, I thought a lot of filmmakers were one man band. I guess coming to age in the 90s when indie cinema was in its glory days, you heard stories of Soderberg shooting Sex Lies and Videotape, or Kevin Smith shooting Clerks, or Robert Rodriguez shooting El Mariachi for $7000. These guys wrote their scripts, rented a camera, directed and shot their film. I love operating the camera and the impromptu shot creation, mixed with storyboards and shot lists... I just don’t care about codecs, follow focus units, and half the things a lot of folks around here care about. I care about story and composition. I don’t think others are wrong, I’m the weirdo around here. It is really hard for a director to focus on story and the actor's performance for it, when he is being distracting by operating the camera (plus lighting!) and managing sound as well. Then it is very disheartening when a quarter of the way through you listen/watch back what you've got so far, and realize half of it is trash due to technical faults.... So saying "you don't care about all those other things" is only an even greater reason to try and get some crew on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted September 23, 2018 Super Members Share Posted September 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Or keep an eye out for pricing on the Venus Optic's new Laowa 25-100mm T2.9 cine zoom. Yes, looking at the prices of their other lenses, it might well be a very interesting option. Another option actually that makes sense for a single operator with the LS300 is the Sigma 24-105mm f4 combined with the Aputure LensRegain which, with the prime zoom, will give you a 24-125 f2.8 zoom in 4K (or 24-210mm f2.8 in HD) with electronic programmable follow focus. The only slight snag is having to take the adapter bottom apart to fit it because of the protruding ND wheel on the LS300 but on the day of our Lord it is worth remembering this is why He gave us gaffa tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 8 hours ago, kaylee said: Eff that Im not dealing with recording audio on the set I'm a fan of Leone, so the idea of doing audio overdubs in post is cool. Also, if you watch a lot of late 20th century films you'll hear the practice all the time. It was pretty common. It's a fun alternative way to do stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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