Nikon Z7 is at EOSHD HQ - better video than Sony?

[Andrew Reid]

I don't think AF has anything to do with the sensor readout speed.

To do 4K/60p you need to run the rolling shutter scan much faster and that is a hardware limitation not software. Maybe it could do it for a short time but it would be pretty unstable if it did.

X-T3 if you want 4K/60p. It's half the price.

Or wait till S1?

[seattledv]

Good overview of Z7...I find it very tempting except for the price. I'm finding the Fuji X-T3 to be really good overall and it's tough to beat for its price point. (Z6 may change that of course) My real issue with all of these new cameras is that its very hard to know which system/cameras/lenses warrant a BIG investment. I think it's too early to tell. All of these cameras have their pros and cons with none of them yet emerging as a market leader. It's going to be a real shootout in the marketplace and it's hard to say which manufacturers and camera formats will survive and which will go the way of the Nikon 1. Ultimately competition is good for consumers, but right now it's REALLY confusing and hard to know where to put your money in this scramble for market share.

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah right now it's a confusing jumble of new stuff. With the high-end stuff it's best to wait and see how the dust settles unless you're feeling adventurous!!

X-T3 was a solid buy. I really enjoyed mine so far, and it's certainly the best value for money out of ALL the new stuff. E-M10 III at the low end is so cheap, a total value for money bargain too, though obviously not as future proof as X-T3, at least it packs IBIS  Review of that is tomorrow on EOSHD so check it out as well. Will make great B-cam even for people already satisfied with their primary new kit.

[wolf33d]

3 hours ago, Snowbro said:

Get a used 1dx ii

No IBIS and way too huge and bulky. 

Especially when you consider 60% of my camera use is far in mountain backcountry...

[Andrew Reid]

Not to mention the whacking great MJPEG file sizes on the 1D X II. Killed it for video in long-run for me. Great stills camera though.

[BTM_Pix]

48 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah right now it's a confusing jumble of new stuff.

I think EF has definitely become the "safety" mount to have lenses in.

It can be used on their existing mount of course but AF adapted to their own new mount (with ND as well), their M mount, Sony E, Fuji X , MFT and the existing and upcoming SL mount cameras.

At least that means people can dip their toe into the water with EOS-R, X-T3, A7iii, GH5, Pocket 4K, Panasonic S1 etc without having to go all in on one system.

It also means of course they can use the savings to buy 2 different cameras (X-T3 and Pocket 4K would be a good combo for example).

That's not great news for Nikon

 

[Andrew Reid]

Yes Canon probably sells so many EF lenses for other cameras, they may as well be a lens company that does cameras on the side!!

All these fancy Z and E and L and R mount mirrorless lenses are all very pretty but they don't commute!

[Nikkor]

EF is save If you feel like doing the adapter thing, yes. I'd rather sell and buy like the Butterling does.

Once the z mount and r mount get out their lineup long flange lenses are going to be a joke, specially wideangles.  

Let's face it, wideangle retrofocus lenses are ugly, I had the long praised Nikon 14-24 2.8 and it produces unnatural ugly images that look "spectacular" and make money.

 

[Andrew Reid]

4 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Once the z mount and r mount get out their lineup long flange lenses are going to be a joke, specially wideangles.  

I respectfully disagree

Long flange allows for cross-platform compatibility and quality is still great.

There's a reason so many of us are still using 1970's lenses on a mirrorless camera

I can't bring my Z mount glass anywhere apart from 'home' on the Z7, so I will not be buying very much of it. Thankfully, I am sure Canon EF adapters will come along and a lot more besides. There is already a Canon FD adapter and medium format 'speed booster' both of which I am going to be using soon, if I can get hold of them early! The FTZ adapter is meant to work very well too. It is a Nikon in-house-adapter so no reverse engineering or bugs. It just "works" and great AF like a native lens (or so I believe - yet to test my F mount lenses myself on it).

5 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Once the z mount and r mount get out their lineup long flange lenses are going to be a joke, specially wideangles.

The EOS R lenses seem pretty BIG considering they are supposed to be short flange.

[Nikkor]

20 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I respectfully disagree

Long flange allows for cross-platform compatibility and quality is still great.

There's a reason so many of us are still using 1970's lenses on a mirrorless camera

I can't bring my Z mount glass anywhere apart from 'home' on the Z7, so I will not be buying very much of it. Thankfully, I am sure Canon EF adapters will come along and a lot more besides. There is already a Canon FD adapter and medium format 'speed booster' both of which I am going to be using soon, if I can get hold of them early!

Let's talk in 2 years.

btw, do yourself a favor and buy the pentax67 to gfx speedbooster, get the 105mm 2.4.

Once you see the results, sell all your canon crap and get the gfx 100

https://www.josephdagostinophotography.com/blog/2018/1/10/fujifilm-gfx-and-pentax-105mm-24

[BTM_Pix]

I can maybe see myself buying a Z6 down the line but no way am I going to re-buy any of my collection of F mount lenses in the new mount.

I fell for that ruse with all my vinyl albums when CDs came out  

[tyger11]

2 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Let's talk in 2 years.

btw, do yourself a favor and buy the pentax67 to gfx speedbooster, get the 105mm 2.4.

Once you see the results, sell all your canon crap and get the gfx 100

https://www.josephdagostinophotography.com/blog/2018/1/10/fujifilm-gfx-and-pentax-105mm-24

Focal reducer, not a SpeedBooster (which is a brand by MetaBones). You had me confused that MetaBones had jumped into MF for a minute there. 

[ntblowz]

wonder has anyone tried to do IBIS compare between Sony and Nikon on video?

[Nikkor]

30 minutes ago, tyger11 said:

Focal reducer, not a SpeedBooster (which is a brand by MetaBones). You had me confused that MetaBones had jumped into MF for a minute there. 

Anyway, I checked again and unfortunately they used the same optics as in the other focal reducers so it gives very strong vignetting since it was designed to cover Fullframe. I guess Andrew can keep his canon EF stuff in the closet.

[Zach]

Not sure if you've had the chance or desire to mess with it, but any comments on the 1080 video quality would be much appreciated! I'm still not necessarily fond of the idea of shooting 4K for a lot of things workflow wise 

[wolf33d]

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

1.8x crop on EOS R

Contrast AF on Panasonic

Sony ergonomics, unresponsiveness and menus

Samsung NX1 - pulled out of market

Fujifilm comes out well but no IBIS in their 10bit video model makes us pine for an X-H2

Nikon... Hard to see a downside apart from the pricing and availability?

 

Just one thing for me, 4K60p 

You are 1000% right in today’s market, but in 2019 it’s safe to assume that at least 2 FF will be 4K60 (Panasonic and Sony) and it’s also safe to assume that the Z6/Z7 won’t be updated in 2019. 

So it comes down again to me as : when will we get a 4K60 IBIS FF camera with good video AF? Seems like only A7S III but at what price ergonomically speaking...

However probably the safest bet for the futur is Nikon. Canon is always crippling their bodies in video. Sony has tried for years they never get the ergonomics right, Panasonic is dumbly focusing on AFD, Nikon however made massive improvement in video, so massive in fact that their next FF mirrorless is 4K60 for sure. It’s just gonna take a 2nd gen.

In any case this is an exciting time for photo and video. As much as I complain, I enjoyed a lot shooting with the A7III and got some crazy shots from this tiny package. Same with my Mavic, same with the GH5. I am definitely spoiled, it’s so great to have mirrorless compared to years ago...

[thebrothersthre3]

Can't say I'd want any full frame camera at this point for video. Panasonic's look very interesting.

The Nikon would probably be my choice though. I'd go Canon but its hard to invest in their stuff when they are so slow on gettings things up to date.

[Yurolov]

47 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Just one thing for me, 4K60p 

You are 1000% right in today’s market, but in 2019 it’s safe to assume that at least 2 FF will be 4K60 (Panasonic and Sony) and it’s also safe to assume that the Z6/Z7 won’t be updated in 2019. 

So it comes down again to me as : when will we get a 4K60 IBIS FF camera with good video AF? Seems like only A7S III but at what price ergonomically speaking...

However probably the safest bet for the futur is Nikon. Canon is always crippling their bodies in video. Sony has tried for years they never get the ergonomics right, Panasonic is dumbly focusing on AFD, Nikon however made massive improvement in video, so massive in fact that their next FF mirrorless is 4K60 for sure. It’s just gonna take a 2nd gen.

In any case this is an exciting time for photo and video. As much as I complain, I enjoyed a lot shooting with the A7III and got some crazy shots from this tiny package. Same with my Mavic, same with the GH5. I am definitely spoiled, it’s so great to have mirrorless compared to years ago...

I'd say nikon is the best option for the future seeing as they have nothing to protect. They are the only ones who are offering a full frame 4k package with a broadcast codec (all be it external). Right off the bat their video af is seemingly as good as canon's. Their lenses also show a commitment toward video with breathless focusing. It certainly seems 4k60 and 10 bit internal will be on the next gen models. Plus for the z6 the entry point is still low if you have nikon glass. If you are getting into sony you are priced out pretty soon.

Say what you want about sony but they have given us the same crappy old codec and the same crappy old color science. I think its clear to anyone they are protecting their cine cameras. Canon ditto, but at least there you can get a good image out of them and the autofocus is nice. 

[thebrothersthre3]

13 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

I'd say nikon is the best option for the future seeing as they have nothing to protect. They are the only ones who are offering a full frame 4k package with a broadcast codec (all be it external). Right off the bat their video af is seemingly as good as canon's. Their lenses also show a commitment toward video with breathless focusing. It certainly seems 4k60 and 10 bit internal will be on the next gen models. Plus for the z6 the entry point is still low if you have nikon glass. If you are getting into sony you are priced out pretty soon.

Say what you want about sony but they have given us the same crappy old codec and the same crappy old color science. I think its clear to anyone they are protecting their cine cameras. Canon ditto, but at least there you can get a good image out of them and the autofocus is nice. 

Well with the Sony A6700 having internal 10bit 422 up to 4k 60p and 1080 240fps, we could see something very special in the A7S3. Sony has updated their color science in the A73, so it could be even further improved in the A7S3 and the A7000.

I am with you in general on Sony colors though and everything. Exactly why I switched to Fuji from panasonic and have never really went the Sony route(besides a brief affair with the A6300)

[tupp]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think EF has definitely become the "safety" mount to have lenses in.

The Nikkor F mount is safer, as it has a greater flange focal distance.

 

It can be adapted to almost any camera with an EF mount or shallower.

 

Furthermore, it is impossible to mount some lenses with EF mounts onto the EF speed boosters, while those same lenses with Nikkor F mounts can be mounted to the Nikkor F speed boosters (supposedly because of the EF speed boosters have an EF-S blocking flange).

 

Of course, lenses with EF mounts cannot be properly adapted (without extra optics) to cameras/adapters with Nikkor F mounts.

 

To ensure the most possible camera/lens combinations, the basic rule of thumb is that cameras should have the shortest possible flange focal distance while lenses should have the longest possible flange focal distance.