Nikon Z7 is at EOSHD HQ - better video than Sony?

[jonpais]

40 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Why is all of this Z7 footage look so Dark, and Horror Movie looking?? Kind of depressing. ?

That footage looks awful - hideously oversharpened and skin tones at the beginning make the model look like she’s been embalmed.

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah well backlit, underexposed faces will do that.

It's not the camera's fault is it?!

It's the cinematographers job.

I think maybe we have so much technology now, we expect the camera to fix everything, rather than getting it right ourselves in terms of the light and grade.

[jonpais]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah well backlit, underexposed faces will do that.

It's not the camera's fault is it?!

It's the cinematographers job.

I think maybe we have so much technology now, we expect the camera to fix everything, rather than getting it right ourselves in terms of the light and grade.

which is precisely why it is not a good example of what the Z7 is capable of. 

[Nikkor]

Using standard picture style in video is an epidemic. Seems like Nikon shooters are mainly still shooters, reminds me of the old 5d mk ii days.

[webrunner5]

40 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That footage looks awful - hideously oversharpened and skin tones at the beginning make the model look like she’s been embalmed.

Even that Red Bull planes flying video has the same Funeral Home look to it. God, it is Horrific.

[jonpais]

7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Even that Red Bull planes flying video has the same Funeral Home look to it. God, it is Horrific.

Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll have to watch it then. ?

[Django]

Well you know what they say one mans junk.. another mans treasure..  

In the EOS R thread, everybody is complaining about footage looking too soft, and in here & other places ( *cough GH5 *) about it looking oversharpened etc lol

Shooting/Grading & profile is probably at fault but Nikon definitely has a hard contrasty look to it, even in photography..  always has always will. Some love it, some hate it.

Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach.

Btw I had a quick go at the Z7 w/ kit lens the other day.. and found the combo rather dull & uninspiring from an ergonomical/shooting/lens mojo point of view.

Love the Nikon color science though, and I did find the video AF transitions to be silky smooth when they didn't miss (which fortunately was not often, unlike broken DPAF on EOSR) .

 

[wolf33d]

21 minutes ago, Django said:

Nikon definitely has a hard contrasty look to it, even in photography..  always has always will. Some love it, some hate it.

Btw I had a quick go at the Z7 w/ kit lens the other day.. and found the combo rather dull & uninspiring from an ergonomical/shooting/lens mojo point of view.

Love the Nikon color science though, and I did find the video AF transitions to be silky smooth when they didn't miss (which fortunately was not often, unlike broken DPAF on EOSR) .

 

MMhhhh no. Never had a contrasty hard look in RAW in my Nikon stills, don't know what you are talking about. Nothing to love or hate just a flat RAW image with lots of DR and flexibility. Not much difference with the Canon FF and Sony FF I have had. 

In video, I can't say but the Flat profile does not look to hard contrasty from what I have seen. 

What you refer to looks a lot more like user gradings and shooting than the camera. 

[Nikkor]

34 minutes ago, Django said:

Well you know what they say one mans junk.. another mans treasure..  

In the EOS R thread, everybody is complaining about footage looking too soft, and in here & other places ( *cough GH5 *) about it looking oversharpened etc lol

Shooting/Grading & profile is probably at fault but Nikon definitely has a hard contrasty look to it, even in photography..  always has always will. Some love it, some hate it.

Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach.

Btw I had a quick go at the Z7 w/ kit lens the other day.. and found the combo rather dull & uninspiring from an ergonomical/shooting/lens mojo point of view.

Love the Nikon color science though, and I did find the video AF transitions to be silky smooth when they didn't miss (which fortunately was not often, unlike broken DPAF on EOSR) .

 

Actually that part about stills is bullshit, canon and Zeiss lenses are known for high contrast, Nikon goes for medium-high contrast. 

[Django]

@wolf33d I 'm talking SOOC.. not RAW where you can push DR etc around as you seem fit.

@Nikkor I don't agree about Canon lenses being high contrast, I do think Zeiss/Leica lenses are notoriously so (infamous German look)

[wolf33d]

1 minute ago, Django said:

@wolf33d I 'm talking SOOC.. not RAW where you can push DR etc around as you seem fit.

@Nikkor I don't agree about Canon lenses being high contrast, I do think Zeiss/Leica lenses are notoriously so (infamous German look)

Do people shoot JPG? Lol

[Django]

@wolf33d Just about every sports/news/event shooter. they don't have time/space to Raw edit 4000 shots a day. A lot of TV and even film also prefer ProRes to Raw for similar reasons. 

[wolf33d]

Oh yeah, the industrial shooters... 

[Danyyyel]

39 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Oh yeah, the industrial shooters... 

You mean 99% of shows, some like game of thrones are so industrial.  https://www.facebook.com/TeamARRI/posts/heres-an-inside-look-at-battle-of-the-bastards-its-the-game-of-thrones-biggest-v/10154274524264061/

From what have seen, 99% of amateurs will shoot RAW because they think it is going to make a difference. In fact if you can't do good to very good video/film with a 10 bit log prores file, RAW won't change anything. The garbage in front of the camera won't miraculously transform into gold just because it is raw.

[hansel]

We'll all this jpg look comes from choice of picture profile, no?

[wolf33d]

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

You mean 99% of shows, some like game of thrones are so industrial.  https://www.facebook.com/TeamARRI/posts/heres-an-inside-look-at-battle-of-the-bastards-its-the-game-of-thrones-biggest-v/10154274524264061/

From what have seen, 99% of amateurs will shoot RAW because they think it is going to make a difference. In fact if you can't do good to very good video/film with a 10 bit log prores file, RAW won't change anything. The garbage in front of the camera won't miraculously transform into gold just because it is raw.

I was speaking about stills so calm down dude

[Andrew Reid]

No need to worry about a harsh high contrast look with the Nikon Z7 flat profile. It's very smooth. With a LUT, it's up to you what the contrast is. So I don't really understand the debate?!

[Django]

No debate, just trolling by the usual suspects.. if you look back my comment that started the flame i specified: 

Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach.

i.e i'd like to see some none high contrast nikon profile footage to better judge this cam.

That said Nikon Flat & Fuji's Eterna are about the only baked video "profiles" i can tolerate.

 

[docmoore]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

So I don't really understand the debate?!

I assume that most elevate themselves by diminishing something else ...

So ... here is a bit 10-bit Nlog ... not high contrast because we are in the midst of a major deluge ... rain rain rain.

https://vimeo.com/294861986

Password : daysend

Which means it will be gone in a day. 

The Z 6 may have better video ... but this works for me. 

Bob

[Andrew Reid]

If we assume the most probably outcome, it's that the Z7 4K looks like the D850 and the Z6 4K looks like the A7 III.

The Z7 4K in full frame mode is excellent, same as my D850. A tiny bit of aliasing on very high contrast diagonal edges, but that is to be expected going 46MP down to 4K. There are no real issues, honestly, same as D850 which I loved. It's detailed, it's cinematic, it's got a ton of dynamic range and a nice codec, with great colour science. Rolling shutter is well controlled. Switch to APS-C mode and it is supersampled from 5K, just like the D850 and the A7R III. In full frame it is slightly superior to the A7R III, slightly smoother looking and less aliasing.

Now the Z6 we are told by Nikon is full pixel readout in full frame (like A7 III) but the APS-C mode has to be upscaled from something like 3K, again same as A7 III. So the Z7 is going to have the better APS-C 4K, and the Z6 will have a MARGINALLY better full frame 4K image assuming it does indeed ape the A7 III's full pixel readout (6K to 4K).

Until the Z6 actually arrives, we won't know for sure, and there may be issues we're not yet aware of or Nikon might decide to take features out, or reduce their potency. On paper, the specs look fine, but the devil might be in the detail.

If it works out as expected, the Z6 is going to be a big fat bargain, and preferable to the A7 III taken as a body in isolation... Once you start talking lenses, adapters, etc. Then it gets more complicated.