The absolutely mega Olympus E-M10 III - Oversampled 4.6K no crop 5 axis IBIS for $500!

[Andrew Reid]

Sounds like you'd be happier with 200Mbit 4K on the E-M5 III for a bit more money

I can upload some original files from the E-M10 III but won't be today

[AdrParkinson]

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sounds like you'd be happier with 200Mbit 4K on the E-M5 III for a bit more money

I'm sure I would be happier, but my bank account wouldn't be. I've been using a Canon 550d for six years. I think that even if the E-M10 isn't the best camera money can buy right now, it'll be a huge upgrade over the Canon.

Quote

I can upload some original files from the E-M10 III but won't be today

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Video Hummus]

It would be interesting to play around with that Olympus curve control and try and dial in a pleasing “graded” image straight of camera in 8-bit.

I wonder if it works with OM-Log on the EM1 variants and if there is any advantage of doing adjustments in camera before the image is backed into a 8-bit codec? Does the curve adjustment happen before the encoding?

[tupp]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:04 AM, Video Hummus said:

Does the curve adjustment happen before the encoding?

Not sure how the highlight/shadow control could happen after encoding.

 

By encoding, do you mean "conversion to 8-bit?"  If so, I have no clue as to what stage in the camera's imaging process that the highlight/shadow control is applied, but I would guess that the 8-bit conversion happens early at a low level, before most other processes.

[Video Hummus]

4 hours ago, tupp said:

Not sure how the highlight/shadow control could happen after encoding.

 

By encoding, do you mean "conversion to 8-bit?"  If so, I have no clue as to what stage in the camera's imaging process that the highlight/shadow control is applied, but I would guess that the 8-bit conversion happens early at a low level, before most other processes.

I would think the 8-bit conversion would happen later in the pipeline, for example right before the image data is being written to the SD card. Thats how you work with RAW files and such, why would it be different in a camera with specialized hardware to work with all that sensor data in realtime?

Sensor Data -> De-bayer -> internal 12-bit format -> processing -> JPEG/H.264 encoding -> write to SD

Certainly if you are taking RAW photos the highlight/shadow control is applied before the 12-bit RAW file is written to SD. Not sure it works the same for the video pipeline but I would ASSUME it's somewhat similar.

 

[dreamplayhouse]

I bought the EM10 mark iii to see how I like it but have a question on the following:

No crop in 4K with mechanical IBIS. - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AND WHAT DO I SELECT IN THE MENU? I TURN OFF IBIS IN MENU FOR VIDEO (M-IS TO OFF) AND IT STILL WILL HAVE IBIS IN VIDEO?

2.3x crop with digital stabilisation but no loss of detail - IS THIS WITH M-IS ON in the Menu?

4x crop in 2x-extender mode with minimal loss of detail when recording 4K video (second focal length to every fast prime without dropping to 1080p!) - THIS IS WITH THE ZOOM BUTTON??

[fuzzynormal]

58 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

No crop in 4K with mechanical IBIS. - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN

IBIS setting "M-IS 2"  That's the setting for mechanical IBIS.  Mechanical means there's no digital processing on the stabilization.  Because digital stabilization requires a little bit of zoom-in-crop on the image, when it's not on you don't have said crop.

58 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

2.3x crop with digital stabilization but no loss of detail - IS THIS WITH M-IS ON in the Menu?

Yes.  "On" and activate with the IBIS setting "M-IS 1"

58 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

4x crop in 2x-extender mode with minimal loss of detail when recording 4K video (second focal length to every fast prime without dropping to 1080p!) - THIS IS WITH THE ZOOM BUTTON??

Yes.  Also known as, by default, the "Fn2" button. It does produce a good image for footage that'll be 1080.  It's not as clean and sharp as 4K, but it gives you a very quick way to punch in for close ups.  I've used this when filming people working on a computer, for example.  Want a nice close up of them typing on the keyboard?  Hit that button, bop in tight.  It's also useful for a quick focus check.

[dreamplayhouse]

53 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

IBIS setting "M-IS 2"  That's the setting for mechanical IBIS.  Mechanical means there's no digital processing on the stabilization.  Because digital stabilization requires a little bit of zoom-in-crop on the image, when it's not on you don't have said crop.

Yes.  "On" and activate with the IBIS setting "M-IS 1"

Yes.  Also known as, by default, the "Fn2" button. It does produce a good image for footage that'll be 1080.  It's not as clean and sharp as 4K, but it gives you a very quick way to punch in for close ups.  I've used this when filming people working on a computer, for example.  Want a nice close up of them typing on the keyboard?  Hit that button, bop in tight.  It's also useful for a quick focus check.

Thank you for the explanation.

More questions.

Is this only for M43 lenses or any lens I mount with adapter of course ?

This is where I'm a bit confused as M43 has a crop of 2x so a 12mm lens is 24mm. Are you saying for 4k video M-IS 2, the view will be 12mm if I put on let's say the Olympus 12mm F2 ?

Also, is the no crop in 4K mechanical IBIS available only in Olympus M43 cameras?

 

[fuzzynormal]

50 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

this only for M43 lenses or any lens I mount with adapter of course ?

I put old vintage lenses on my m43 gear all the time.  I prefer them.  Right now I have a Pentax a110 lens on my EM10iii.  (google it)

50 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

M43 has a crop of 2x so a 12mm lens is 24mm

Yes, as compared to the standard size of a 35mm still film exposure.  That's pretty much the formula.  If you buy a 12mm lens and put it on m43, it'll look like the focal length of a 24mm lens on a full frame camera.

53 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

is the no crop in 4K mechanical IBIS available only in Olympus M43 cameras?

Nope.  It exists on all cameras that literally move the sensor (or lens elements) to give you stabilization.  Not all cameras do IBIS (in body image stabilization).  For example, the lens stabilization used in FUJI lenses is actually decent...but they do stabilization in the lens, not the body.

[dreamplayhouse]

Thank you for the info. I'm liking this camera but also wondering how much better the EM5 Mark iii might be and if it's worth paying $500 more. Would the video be much better? I know photo wise it's a 20mp sensor vs 16 but for me 16 seems enough.

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, dreamplayhouse said:

Thank you for the info. I'm liking this camera but also wondering how much better the EM5 Mark iii might be and if it's worth paying $500 more. Would the video be much better? I know photo wise it's a 20mp sensor vs 16 but for me 16 seems enough.

Minimal difference.

I'd say the EM5 is actually not much better for video, but certainly a better all around camera if photos are a big deal to you. 

imho, the EM5 looks nicer, if that matters.

You might like the size and ergonomics of a EM5 a bit more.  The menu options are more refined.  In addition, you can plug a mic directly into the EM5.  I also believe the rolling shutter is not quite as pronounced.  If I was still doing my globe trotting video work, I'd get the EM5 simply because I could put a battery grip on it, the EM5 is weather sealed, and the IBIS is slightly better...but those are not video IQ considerations.

For the video IQ?  No great variance...which is why the em10iii is such a value for video to begin with.  Cheap camera, really good 4k video, and a decent IBIS system. 

I'll probably get another one so I can do same-camera tandem video shooting on an upcoming gig I have scheduled. They're so affordable it's kind of ridiculous.  I've paid more for meals that I have for this little guy.

[Andrew Reid]

On 6/26/2020 at 3:27 PM, dreamplayhouse said:

Thank you for the info. I'm liking this camera but also wondering how much better the EM5 Mark iii might be and if it's worth paying $500 more. Would the video be much better? I know photo wise it's a 20mp sensor vs 16 but for me 16 seems enough.

Only the AF was better really.

I did not warm much to it, and sent mine back to Amazon for a refund.

Didn't even really feel the need to review it, because for the same money (actually less) you can buy a used E-M1 II which is very similar and better in many ways - ergonomically for instance, it also has LOG and latest AF speeds.

So if you are going to move up from the E-M10 III, get a used E-M1 II or G9 for £650 that's my advice!

[dreamplayhouse]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Only the AF was better really.

I did not warm much to it, and sent mine back to Amazon for a refund.

Didn't even really feel the need to review it, because for the same money (actually less) you can buy a used E-M1 II which is very similar and better in many ways - ergonomically for instance, it also has LOG and latest AF speeds.

So if you are going to move up from the E-M10 III, get a used E-M1 II or G9 for £650 that's my advice!

Thanks. I actually did just buy a G9. I'm just afraid that it might be too big and heavy but reading all the reviews, I really would like to give it a try. I'm looking for an all in one hybrid. Would love the XT-4 but it's way out of my budget. So if G9 won't work out maybe I'll look a the EM1 II.

 

[fuzzynormal]

2 hours ago, dreamplayhouse said:

it might be too big and heavy

One of the reasons I bought the EM10III is simply because it would fit easier in my favorite leather camera bag than my GH5.  Sometimes the decisions to own a camera are weird, but whatever works for you.

[ac6000cw]

11 hours ago, dreamplayhouse said:

I actually did just buy a G9. I'm just afraid that it might be too big and heavy but reading all the reviews, I really would like to give it a try.

It's a great choice - after 'sitting on the fence' for ages about buying a G9 due to the extra size and weight, I bought one about a year ago and discovered just how good a camera it is - no regrets at all. It's head-and-shoulders better than the G80 I also have - superb IBIS and EIS, no-crop 4k and excellent 1080p, plus lightning fast AF-S for stills (and for my purposes video C-AF works fine, it's much better than people seem to want to give it credit for).

I've also recently bought (at the sort of price Andrew mentioned) a used EM-1 II as a smaller but still high-end camera - my first Olympus camera. Not been able to do much proper testing due to Covid-19 lockdown, but it's been interesting so far comparing the two...

[Andrew Reid]

Most lenses are heavier than the G9!

[dreamplayhouse]

6 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

It's a great choice - after 'sitting on the fence' for ages about buying a G9 due to the extra size and weight, I bought one about a year ago and discovered just how good a camera it is - no regrets at all. It's head-and-shoulders better than the G80 I also have - superb IBIS and EIS, no-crop 4k and excellent 1080p, plus lightning fast AF-S for stills (and for my purposes video C-AF works fine, it's much better than people seem to want to give it credit for).

I've also recently bought (at the sort of price Andrew mentioned) a used EM-1 II as a smaller but still high-end camera - my first Olympus camera. Not been able to do much proper testing due to Covid-19 lockdown, but it's been interesting so far comparing the two...

Do you find the G9 substantially heavier and larger than the EM-1 II?

 

[ac6000cw]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Most lenses are heavier than the G9!

Only a few of the pro-level native micro-4/3 lenses are heavier (the G9 weighs 658g) and I don't own any of those, partly for that reason - adapted lenses don't count 😉

Even my F-mount Tamron 17-50 F2.8 plus cheap speedbooster combo is less than 600g 🙂

[ac6000cw]

20 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said:

Do you find the G9 substantially heavier and larger than the EM-1 II?

 

Not substantially but noticeably heavier and larger. The EM-1 II is about the same size as a G80/G85 (but heavier). The G9 is taller and deeper but good ergonomically, especially as it has a lot of assignable buttons - the two on the front between lens and grip (under your fingertips) are *really* useful, I have one of them mapped as an alternative video record button.

[dreamplayhouse]

So a question on G9 vs X-T3 in terms of 4k 10 bit 4.2.2 files. Do you need a super computer to handle the files from the X-T3 and the G9? I see the mbps is 400 on the Fuji and 150 on the G9 - does it mean G9 won't be as much of a system hog?

thanks