Panasonic Abandoning M43

[sanveer]

Once you get over the click-bait title, this is apparently the hottest discussion on 43rumors.com right now:

https://www.43rumors.com/tony-northrup-believes-panasonic-should-give-up-mft/#disqus_thread

 

 

What do you believe is wrong with people's perception about Panasonic starting a FF Line and how they are handling M43, and how they can it better.

Also about users who Do Not or have Not used M43. Why Not? 

What is the M43 line-up missing and what do they need to focus on for the future to grow the market? 

 

In my few years with M43, supply chain and after sales had been the biggest limiting factor. I am unable to find many cameras or lenses I wanted, and their after sales was just rubbish. Also grey imports had just too random and prohibitive pricing.  

[aldolega]

I hope they continue with both, and don't handicap or pigeonhole one line in favor of the other (like only making ultra-compact bodies for m4/3, or keeping video features out of the FF bodies because they're "for photographers" ). 

 

It would be really nice if they made an adapter to use m4/3 lenses on the FF mount, so people can ease into the new system, and to make both systems more appealing. The SL mount is a big enough diameter that I think this could work.

 

[MattH]

If they can keep cameras small and not hold back on features then I see no reason why they cant sell more m4/3rds cameras possibly by the millions if they play their cards right.  Especially if they were cheap.   Imagine a camera half way in size between a GM5 and a GX85, with an articulating screen, mic socket, gh5 sensor and gh5 video features.   Is anyone seriously saying that wouldnt sell like hot cakes?   And thats before you even think about adding in smartphone technology.

[sanveer]

1 minute ago, MattH said:

If they can keep cameras small and not hold back on features then I see no reason why they cant sell more m4/3rds cameras possibly by the millions if they play their cards right.  Especially if they were cheap.   Imagine a camera half way in size between a GM5 and a GX85, with an articulating screen, mic socket, gh5 sensor and gh5 video features.   Is anyone seriously saying that wouldnt sell like hot cakes?   And thats before you even think about ading in smartphone technology.

And probably add Dual Sensors on it (20MP M43 + 12MP 1/1.55"). A 12MP Smartphone equivalent camera for immediate social media sharing where quality is not an issue, and much larger 20MP sensor when you want some serious photos for lots of post work.

[Andrew Reid]

If Fujifilm can be doing so well with both APS-C and medium format at the same time I am sure Micro Four Thirds can survive full frame, it has done since the start. I once chose the GH1 over the 5D Mark II remember!

And I will never part with some of the more unique c-mount lenses, micro four thirds lenses and anamorphic glass - the anamorphic on full frame is, shall we say, more challenging.

[webrunner5]

Ahh they have their top end m4/3 stuff higher than FF. They can't really go back. Even APSC is probably a dead duck down the road. Maybe Fuji will hold out. But I can see m4/3 dropping out of sight. The Sony A7 series is just as small body wise. Sure lenses are bigger, but the average person doesn't buy 400mm f2.8 lenses for them. The kit zoom is pretty small and light.

I am surprised they sell any m4/3 cameras in the USA. I Never see them in box stores, or camera stores. I don't know Anyone but me that has one. Well the guy I sold my AF100A too.

[jonpais]

In my eleven years living abroad. I can count the number of people I’ve seen shooting Pansonic on the fingers of one hand.

At their announcement, Panasonic said something like m43 represented mobility, FF quality. Weird ass strategy if you ask me.

[sanveer]

8 minutes ago, jonpais said:

In my eleven years living abroad. I can count the number of people I’ve seen shooting Pansonic on one hand.

Supply chain and Marketing mostly.

Do you find Panasonic Cameras in stories (Street and Online), often enough? What about Advertising? Is it visible enough? 

[jonpais]

A few shops stock m43 now, but advertising and events are nonexistant, as are authorized repair centers. They’re only familiar with washing machines and stuff.

This is from Panasonic’s brochure. ?

Japan is blessed with an abundance of fresh, pure water. Rain falling in the mountains finds its way to clear streams and springs both hot and cold. Japanese people’s traditional reverence of nature extends to water, the essence of life.

This love of pure water in turn gave birth to Japanese people’s appreciation of cleanliness in every aspect of life. Japanese love a long soak in the bathtub, and they insist on meticulously keeping clothing clean and presentable.

Panasonic’s washing machines embody this cultural appreciation of water and cleanliness. The Japanese approach is to get clothing stunningly clean, helping you look and feel beautiful at home and everywhere you go.

[sanveer]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

A few shops stock m43 now, but advertising and events are nonexistant, as are authorized repair centers. They’re only familiar with washing machines and stuff.

I suspected something earlier, but the more people I interact with, the More I am certain, there is something wrong with Panasonic's marketing department. Most of their advertising budget is vapourware, which apparently is in the millions, in many countries. As is their supply chain. I don't know why, but so feel Panasonic should thoroughly investigate its whole Marketing Setup and cap the huge leaks. They are part of the reason why Lumux doesn't have more reach than it presently does.

[webrunner5]

I am sure they are probably in Photo, Video magazines, but who buys those anymore. And if you look at them on the web you probably use an Ad Blocker like I do.  Not good.

And what is even more crazy is I am sure I read someplace that Panasonic doesn't even make LCD screens anymore. And at Best Buy I don't remember seeing Any Panasonic TV's. I may be wrong but..

[newfoundmass]

It's inevitable that Panasonic will phase out MFT eventually, at least in its current form. I don't think it'll happen in the near future though, at least not until full frame development is able to catch up to MFT. We're only now, almost 2 years after release, seeing cameras getting closer to achieving what the GH5 can do and even then there's nothing out there that can do all of it. 

While the death of the MFT mount is inevitable, the MFT sensor I think will continue for a long, long time. I think you'll see more bridge / point and shoot cameras, drones, camcorders, etc. use it. As long as there's a need for smaller sensors, MFT could be a real good option. 

[Emanuel]

 

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

 I once chose the GH1 over the 5D Mark II remember!

And you were not the only one. I left 5DII in behalf of the GH1 only one year later my previous purchase.

Silly discussion. This Tony N. looks like to be a smart a$$ more often than should be. I've also abandoned his insights for a long time now. Who abandons who (or what camera format) after all?

Useless pseudo-experts can waste your time and money.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but you can buy the original A7 for 750 bucks new at times. Used for less than 600. If you are just doing photos, occasional video are you going to buy a m4/3 over it??

[UncleBobsPhotography]

8 hours ago, MattH said:

If they can keep cameras small and not hold back on features then I see no reason why they cant sell more m4/3rds cameras possibly by the millions if they play their cards right.  Especially if they were cheap.   Imagine a camera half way in size between a GM5 and a GX85, with an articulating screen, mic socket, gh5 sensor and gh5 video features.   Is anyone seriously saying that wouldnt sell like hot cakes?   And thats before you even think about adding in smartphone technology.

I also think this will be the future of Panasonic M43 now that they are going full frame. Full frame can't compete in the GX85 sized cameras category, and they will probably get the videofeatures of the GH5 soon enough. 

[scotchtape]

The main advantage is size and weight and lots of people won't give that up.

I wish they would work on the video afc and come up with faster lenses for shallow dof.  It's so much work trying to get shallow on m43 especially if you want af. F2.8 becomes f5.6 dof...

If they could get video afc plus a speedboosted techart pro type adapter (af with manual lenses) that would be amazing.

[KC Kelly]

It makes sense that Panasonic has introduced FF mirrorless cameras now - Get in on the FF game now before Canon and Nikon mirrorless systems are established.

I've been a fan of Canon film cameras since 1975, and still have A and F series cameras, but I bought an EOS 10s (film) and never liked the thing. (Too big and bulky.)  I never thought Canon digital cameras were the way to go forward, and when the Panasonic G3 came out, that fit my still photographic needs.

With m43 you can go small and light, or rig up some monstrous and expensive glass.  Pound for pound (money and weight), m43 will get what most people consider excellent photos and video.  I see more benefits with m43 format in film making.  It is only a 1.3 crop factor from s35 movie film.  You can get wide aperture lenses to compensate for depth of field, and you need less light when you do. mFT has the advantage if you do want more depth of field.  Try photographing a group from 5 feet away with a 24mm at f2.8 on full frame!

It also makes sense for Tony N. to say FF is the way.  After all, he's getting paid most of the time when he is lugging around the ton of FF cameras and lenses he uses.

By the way, the best image quality I get is with my full frame Cambo 5"x7", but I'm also very happy with my G3, GH3, GH4, GH5, AE-1, FtB, F1, (2x)F1n, Sinar F1, and Graflex cameras.

[Mokara]

Enthusiasts might want FF cameras, but most people who buy cameras are not enthusiasts and are driven by things such as appearance and size. You can't make a small reasonably complete camera with a FF body. It has to have a smaller sensor to meet those requirements. Most people are going to find an M5 far more appealing than 5D.

[jonpais]

size and weight are only an advantage when it comes to long telephoto, fast universal zooms and ultra fast primes.

APS-C cameras like Fuji’s remarkable X-T20 not only have exceptional image quality, but are compact enough to fit in your pocket. 

For Sony FF, if you’re content with primes, you can acquire a nice set of lenses from around 10mm up till 85mm or so that can all easily be flown on the lightest gimbals on the market.

And there are the new compact Sony 24mm f/1.4, a soon-to-be released tiny Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 and of course, the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8. The Tamron actually costs no more than Panasonic’s 12-35mm. (I know, not 100% the same!) hehe

As far as cost goes, if you’re looking for a set of Voigtlanders, the price difference between m43 and FF is negligible. I paid around $800 or so for the Nokton 17.5mm several years back and the same for their 65mm APO-Lanthar a couple months ago.  My Olympus 45mm Pro cost almost double what I paid for Sony’s lightweight 85mm f/1.8; and compared to the GH5, the a7 III combo is actually lighter!

Premium long telephoto lenses by PanLeica and Olympus are unquestionably smaller than their FF counterparts, but can run thousands of dollars. 

Rokinon FF cine lenses and Sigma Art lenses are also modestly priced.

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, jonpais said:

size and weight are only an advantage when it comes to long telephoto, fast universal zooms and ultra fast primes.

Indeed ; ) One of the reasons why GH1 got my attention from : -)