GH5S or X-T3?

[jonpais]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Night and day?

Similar DR, similar low light, both 10 bit, both high mbps

Those are just specs. Viewing the images side-by-side, the quality is noticeably different. 

[Jimmy]

Care to elaborate on what parts of the image are "night and day"?

For instance, a fair use of night and day might be... The C300's 1080p is so much better than the 5d3s that the difference is night and day. Genuinely can't imagine any scenario between the XT3 and GH5 where that phrase would make sense, whichever camera you preferred.

 

[DBounce]

This iso talk is interesting. I think I'll do a test comparing ISO for both cameras.  From my initial experience I'm leaning towards thinking ISO performance is similar on the X-T3 and GH5S. I can tell you audio quality of the X-T3 is good. Built in microphones are better than the Panasonic. The audio expansion is useful on the GH cameras. Though I have a Sound Devices external recorder... so I never use the expander. I'll post what I find. 

16 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Care to elaborate on what parts of the image are "night and day"?

For instance, a fair use of night and day might be... The C300's 1080p is so much better than the 5d3s that the difference is night and day. Genuinely can't imagine any scenario between the XT3 and GH5 where that phrase would make sense, whichever camera you preferred.

 

Image quality is on par.  Color science is "different". Both can be tweaked a fair amount. The  X-T3 is usable straight out of camera. 

[PannySVHS]

XT3 has higher bitrates than GH5s in modes with higher than framerates than 60p.

[androidlad]

When shooting 4K 50/60P, X-T3 has a crop factor (relative to FF) of 1.77, when shooting 1080 100/120p, it becomes 1.92.

GH5S sensor has a crop factor of 1.9.

[wolf33d]

 The XT3 would blow the GH5s at the same price, so for $1500 there is no question. 

Better slowmo, better IQ, better colors, better DR, better DoF possibilities... There really is no comparison IMO. 

Wait, and the AF? For this feature alone the XT3 explodes the GH5. Panasonic and their 10y old AF tech can ... themselves. They dare releasing the same thing on the S1, what a joke. 
This camera industry like jokes. 

Fuji is doing a Fantastic job, it's a PITFA that we either have to choose APSC or MF where FF is the sweet spot for many people myself included. 
If Fuji would have been FF Instead of APSC, Canikon and Sony would shit themselves today. Imagine a XH2 (essentially soon a XT3 in a XH1 body) with best in class everything, but FF and similar glasses Fuji developed for APSC but for FF. Now that would be something, we would have it all, nice ergonomics, colors, AF, IBIS, 4K60p, 10 bit, great lenses and body ....

[thebrothersthre3]

At 24p, not a big difference. APSC vs M43 though, that's a difference. Yes you can use a speedbooster on the GH5, but you can use one on the Fuji and get full frame. 

60p and 120p are a lot better, 10 bit, higher data rate. The APSC fuji sensor has more detail then the GH5 and GH5S though if you crop in a lot. 

[BjornT]

Thanks guys I appreciate the comments. Gonna give it another think and see if I can find an X-T3 in a store here in Berlin and see if I can have a play with it before I propose to my boss.

Bigger sensor and better autofocus are big pros and it would be 1000 euros cheaper buying the X-T3 with a kit lens as opposed to GH5S with 12-35 F2.8 so that is money that can be spent on lights and grip equipment.

Also good to hear that audio circuits are good. I guess my overall concern is the body difference. GH5S is very versatile and durable with good battery life, unlimited recording and full fat hdmi connection. My GH5 has never failed me and with HLG or VLOG and using something like @Sage alexa conversion one can achieve a very cinematic image (I will grade everything I produce). For insurance reasons they dont want me using my own equipment so if I use stuff as B cam its my own risk.

Has XT-3 users found it reliable so far? No overheating issues a la sony?

[thebrothersthre3]

24 minutes ago, BjornT said:

Thanks guys I appreciate the comments. Gonna give it another think and see if I can find an X-T3 in a store here in Berlin and see if I can have a play with it before I propose to my boss.

Bigger sensor and better autofocus are big pros and it would be 1000 euros cheaper buying the X-T3 with a kit lens as opposed to GH5S with 12-35 F2.8 so that is money that can be spent on lights and grip equipment.

Also good to hear that audio circuits are good. I guess my overall concern is the body difference. GH5S is very versatile and durable with good battery life, unlimited recording and full fat hdmi connection. My GH5 has never failed me and with HLG or VLOG and using something like @Sage alexa conversion one can achieve a very cinematic image (I will grade everything I produce). For insurance reasons they dont want me using my own equipment so if I use stuff as B cam its my own risk.

Has XT-3 users found it reliable so far? No overheating issues a la sony?

The GH5 is definitely the more durable build. The fuji has the 30 minute record limit. I have also heard reports of the camera getting really hot shooting in 4k for long periods of time. Also lock ups but I think that more of a photography thing. 

If you don't need reliable auto focus the GH5 body is hard to pass up. 

[DBounce]

5 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The GH5 is definitely the more durable build. The fuji has the 30 minute record limit. I have also heard reports of the camera getting really hot shooting in 4k for long periods of time. Also lock ups but I think that more of a photography thing. 

If you don't need reliable auto focus the GH5 body is hard to pass up. 

Looking at both side by side, I can’t say I agree that the GH5 is any more durable in build. Both feel pretty dam solid. And both sport magnesium alloy bodies. Granted they take different approaches. Lens wise the Fuji lenses feel decidedly more solid as they have metal bodies vs plastic for the Panasonic lenses (Leica lenses are metal).

Yes the camera gets warm, but not uncomfortably so. You need to keep in mind it’s sensor is considerably larger while it’s body is vastly smaller. 

So far I have had no lockup’s with the X-T3. I believe the issue was fixed with the firmware update that Fuji released shortly after launch.

Conversely, I did experience several ugly lockup’s with my GH5 and GH5S’s. The issue was caused by using certain aftermarket batteries. The camera would fire the shutter rapidly and would not stop until the battery was physically removed. You would then have to hold down the power button for 10 seconds to reset it.

Build quality is good on both bodies. If shooting 4K for long periods continuously, you will need an external recorder with the Fuji, as it has the 29 minutes recording limit. For this scenario the GH5 family has a definitive edge.

Post production: the H.264 ALL-i files of the GH5 camera are easily consumed by moderate CPUs. The same cannot be said of the H.265 files of the X-T3. It’s a more efficient format, but requires proxies in post. You can use an external recorder, but that increases the gear you need to carry. Cost is a wash, as a X-T3 with external recorder sells for about the same as a GH5S body only.

If stills are important get the Fuji and don’t look back. It’s a wonderful stills camera. My confidence of getting great shots approaches (but falls just short) the level of confidence I feel when shooting with my 1DXMK2... which is so mighty it’s technically cheating. In short the X-T3 is a joy to work with as a stills camera. I cannot praise the GH5 series in this way. Yes, you can get great images with them... but you will never feel like it’s making you look better than you are. You will need to work for every shot. Let me put it this way... you can get great shots in spite of the camera. 

[thebrothersthre3]

25 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Looking at both side by side, I can’t say I agree that the GH5 is any more durable in build. Both feel pretty dam solid. And both sport magnesium alloy bodies. Granted they take different approaches. Lens wise the Fuji lenses feel decidedly more solid as they have metal bodies vs plastic for the Panasonic lenses (Leica lenses are metal).

Yes the camera gets warm, but not uncomfortably so. You need to keep in mind it’s sensor is considerably larger while it’s body is vastly smaller. 

So far I have had no lockup’s with the X-T3. I believe the issue was fixed with the firmware update that Fuji released shortly after launch.

Conversely, I did experience several ugly lockup’s with my GH5 and GH5S’s. The issue was caused by using certain aftermarket batteries. The camera would fire the shutter rapidly and would not stop until the battery was physically removed. You would then have to hold down the power button for 10 seconds to reset it.

Build quality is good on both bodies. If shooting 4K for long periods continuously, you will need an external recorder with the Fuji, as it has the 29 minutes recording limit. For this scenario the GH5 family has a definitive edge.

Post production: the H.264 ALL-i files of the GH5 camera are easily consumed by moderate CPUs. The same cannot be said of the H.265 files of the X-T3. It’s a more efficient format, but requires proxies in post. You can use an external recorder, but that increases the gear you need to carry. Cost is a wash, as a X-T3 with external recorder sells for about the same as a GH5S body only.

If stills are important get the Fuji and don’t look back. It’s a wonderful stills camera. My confidence of getting great shots approaches (but falls just short) the level of confidence I feel when shooting with my 1DXMK2... which is so mighty it’s technically cheating. In short the X-T3 is a joy to work with as a stills camera. I cannot praise the GH5 series in this way. Yes, you can get great images with them... but you will never feel like it’s making you look better than you are. You will need to work for every shot. Let me put it this way... you can get great shots in spite of the camera. 

Thats good to hear, I am actually getting the XT3 in today.

I'm glad you haven't experienced any lock ups yet. I keep hearing about people who do. I never had any issues on my GH5 but I only ever shot in single shot mode for stills. I've heard some reports about hot fuji bodies in weather that is not even that hot. So if you are shooting outside on a 95-100 degree day for a long time it might start looking ugly. Yeah you can't record continuously for more then 30 minutes but you can always stop and restart immediately. Of course this is just me speculating, hopefully that isn't the case.

I do agree with you on stills. Not only does the XT3 just take beautiful shots,  the dynamic range is also really really good, and very noticeably better then a GH5(Haven't used the S).

[DBounce]

2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Thats good to hear, I am actually getting the XT3 in today.

I'm glad you haven't experienced any lock ups yet. I keep hearing about people who do. I never had any issues on my GH5 but I only ever shot in single shot mode for stills. I've heard some reports about hot fuji bodies in weather that is not even that hot. So if you are shooting outside on a 95-100 degree day for a long time it might start looking ugly. Yeah you can't record continuously for more then 30 minutes but you can always stop and restart immediately. Of course this is just me speculating, hopefully that isn't the case.

I do agree with you on stills. Not only does the XT3 just take beautiful shots,  the dynamic range is also really really good, and very noticeably better then a GH5(Haven't used the S).

I’ve shot in hot weather with the Fuji, and no problems with overheating. That’s a Sony thing. And likely due to the small bodies they use for those full frame sensors. APSC might be the sweet spot when it comes to a balance of size vs performance. Though, I would have taken a larger battery. With the addition of the battery grip that concern is largely diminished.

The lockup’s with the GH5 were caused by aftermarket batteries. 

I was pleasantly surprised with how well the X-T3 performs with stills. So much so, that I’m taking pictures again. It’s really great.

[BjornT]

@DBounce Sounds very promising. Im leaning more towards the XT3 now after intially being more set on GH5S. Overall package size is not really an issue and next year when they give me more money I plan to get a Ninja V to go with it.

What exposure tools does the XT3 have? When using an HDMI monitor does the monitor get just flat f-log or the liveview (would probably use my andycineA6 to start with so no luts)

Any advice on lenses? Would buy it with battery grip and the kit lens but would also like a fast 35mm prime that is not too pricey.

Dont assume anyone has tried the viltrox adapter with the sigma 18-35?

 

[Sage]

As the XT3 is 10 bit, it has my attention

[DBounce]

27 minutes ago, BjornT said:

@DBounce Sounds very promising. Im leaning more towards the XT3 now after intially being more set on GH5S. Overall package size is not really an issue and next year when they give me more money I plan to get a Ninja V to go with it.

What exposure tools does the XT3 have? When using an HDMI monitor does the monitor get just flat f-log or the liveview (would probably use my andycineA6 to start with so no luts)

Any advice on lenses? Would buy it with battery grip and the kit lens but would also like a fast 35mm prime that is not too pricey.

Dont assume anyone has tried the viltrox adapter with the sigma 18-35?

 

If you have the budget for the GH5S, you may as well spring for the Atomos Ninja V... it's the same money as the GH5S for both. 

As for lenses I have the 16mm F1.4... it's awesome. A very special lens. Reported by many to be the best lens that Fuji makes. I also have the 23mm F2, 35mm F2 and 50mm F2. I'm leaning towards returning the 50mm and replacing it with the 56mm F1.2. I think at the 50-56mm (85mm ish ) focal length, for me it will see a lot of stills use. That said, I would prefer the shallower depth of field of the 56mm F1.2. 
I considered the 16-55 zoom. But without image stabilization, and a maximum aperture of F2.8 on a crop sensor, I was not thrilled with the DOF. The lens I am eagerly  awaiting is the soon to be released 8-16mm. Can't wait to add that puppy to the mix.

If you want a fast 35mm prime... and don't mind manual focus, perhaps the Mitakon Zhongyi Speedmaster 35mm f/0.95 Mark II? While I do not own this lens, I have heard good things about it.

[frontfocus]

3 hours ago, DBounce said:

As for lenses I have the 16mm F1.4... it's awesome. A very special lens. Reported by many to be the best lens that Fuji makes

but it's not. The 90mm is optically superior. But the 16mm f/1.4 is really special. The near focus ability, nice bokeh and overall rendering are outstanding. It's my second favorite lens. But overall all Fuji lenses are very good. And while they have their own characteristics, overall they are pretty similar. You notice this, if you shoot with third party lenses like Samyang or the Mitakon Speedmaster (I do own it ) mixed with the Fujinon lenses, you will see different rendition and color. No big difference, but I like that it takes nearly no work for the Fujinons to look extremely similar. 

[thebrothersthre3]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

I’ve shot in hot weather with the Fuji, and no problems with overheating. That’s a Sony thing. And likely due to the small bodies they use for those full frame sensors. APSC might be the sweet spot when it comes to a balance of size vs performance. Though, I would have taken a larger battery. With the addition of the battery grip that concern is largely diminished.

The lockup’s with the GH5 were caused by aftermarket batteries. 

I was pleasantly surprised with how well the X-T3 performs with stills. So much so, that I’m taking pictures again. It’s really great.

Well the A6300 had this problem even though it was APSC. Glad to hear you aren't finding this issue with Fuji. I am using it on a wedding on Saturday so I am really hoping its super reliable. 

[DBounce]

5 hours ago, frontfocus said:

but it's not. The 90mm is optically superior.

Lenses are subjective. From what I have seen most favor the 16mm F.14. A quick peak at BHPhoto website will reveal 145 positive reviews and a 5 star rating for the 16mm F1.4 vs only 88 positive reviews for the 90mm F2. While on Amazon we see 127 reviews and just under 5 stars vs zero reviews for the 90mm F2. Thus, I stand by my original statement,"Reported by many to be the best lens that Fuji makes"

You don't have to agree... but most seem to feel the 16mm is the best that Fuji offers.

[jonpais]

The 90mm is optically superior but Fuji set themselves a greater challenge with the 16mm. 

[chadandreo]

I own both and in my opinion the X-T3 is a superior camera, especially is you’re going to use it for photography. 

I don’t know what test people have been doing in which the GH5 non-s low light performance is on par or even better than the X-T3. I have gotten usable footage out of the x-t3 at iso 8000 and 12800, whereas I could never go above 3200 on the GH5 without having to use Neat Noise.  

The main advantages of the GH5, is the flipout screen, better battery life and 180fps in 1080p.