X-T3 or Pocket 4K?

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I admit for an overall camera the Fuji X-T3 ticks a lot of boxes. But after I have seen the footage of the PK4, all 13 stops of it, the Fuji, along with most of the other new ones just sucks ass for video. For just everyday use hell yes the Fuji wins. But for serious stuff not too sure about that.

Sure I would Not recommend the PK4 as the Only camera to have, but for video you are not beating the output of the PK4 for what money we have to spend. Now in controlled shots sure the X-T3 works, but outside with the sun shinning it is just not getting the job done, at least the way I have seen footage wise.

So yeah like says @Alex Uzan, it has a lot of warts, but it has some pretty damn killer output, and for MY needs, wants that is the top reason to own it. @Alex Uzan

According to Cinema5d the X-T3 is 13-12.5 stops of Dynamic Range. I think most people are exposing the footage incorrectly... myself included. Apparently, you really need to protect the highlights as the shadows are easy to recover.

[Mark Romero 2]

9 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

@webrunner5?

Except the colors and the DR 13 stops, do you see anything else really interesting in this P4k ?

A free copy of Resolve Studio version included.

But seriously, I think the BMPCC4K is all about the colors and the DR. Wolfcrow tested it against the GH5 and it seems that the files are more push-able in post by another stop or two compared to the GH5, so that makes it (in my opinion) a pretty compelling choice.

[DBounce]

4 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

5" monitor/recorder with XLR, usb C recording, equal or better low light performance than most APS-C cameras in the market and on top of that a video camera as a bonus!

That monitor does not tilt... so unless you only shoot at eye level? I think low light is on par with the GH5S... but no better. And having said that, no better than the X-T3.

And while it’s a video camera as a bonus... oh wait... it’s ONLY a video camera. Yes it does 4K frame grabs but those a clearly only for continuity.

[Mark Romero 2]

3 minutes ago, DBounce said:

According to Cinema5d the X-T3 is 13-12.5 stops of Dynamic Range. I think most people are exposing the footage incorrectly... myself included. Apparently, you really need to protect the highlights as the shadows are easy to recover.

Thanks for the link.

[Sage]

@DBounce Indeed; with great dynamic range cameras with quality 10 bit codecs, it is easy to overexpose using the practices that were ideal with more compressed, low DR cameras not long ago. Here, we have highlight range, alas, much like film, and shadows don't hide the kind of compression monsters of yore. Though underexposure is still to be avoided*

[webrunner5]

7 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

@webrunner5?

Except the colors and the DR 13 stops, do you see anything else really interesting in this P4k ?

Well as I have stated it is probably the last camera out that I would buy if it was the Only camera I could afford. But I would assume since we are on this forum we are sort of on average pretty much into great looking footage. And I just don't see any camera that the average person on here can afford involves any camera but full blown older Cine cameras. FS700, PMW F3, C100, etc or pretty much any older BMD camera, BMPCC, BMCC. BMMPCC. I look at the PK4 as a gift. So warts or not it  is a camera that can get the job done.  Would I take it on a vacation, no, but if I am serious about this stuff, it is the thing to buy.

It just depends on what you want to do. I have had Cine cameras, BMD cameras and they are ALL a pain in the ass. And I would think that is what the main goal on here is Great looking footage. But it all depends on what you need. So for me it is the PK4. If I was shooting my kids, going on vacation, sure the Fuji wins. But to say any of these Other cameras have a better output is just a day dream. They are not even close.

 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, Alex Uzan said:

Except the colors and the DR 13 stops, do you see anything else really interesting in this P4k ?

"Except for the fact this camera makes you a cup of coffee in the morning and farts golden fairy dust, what else is interesting?"

I dunno....  colors and great dynamic range seems like two really important things to me! No need to say "Except..." next to that. 

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

"Except for the fact this camera makes you a cup of coffee in the morning and farts golden fairy dust, what else is interesting?"

I dunno....  colors and great dynamic range seems like two really important things to me! No need to say "Except..." next to that. 

I would say ability to record in prores internally is a huge plus. High frame rates in RAW and 4k. Pretty large community surrounding black magic cameras, which is always helpful. Unlike a lot of cine cameras the BMP4K can also do high ISO's. 

[Mako Sports]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:17 PM, Oliver Daniel said:

Its at least a flop in the UK, because the FS7 was released and Canon couldn’t beat many of its features. Now, the FS7 is the most rented and requested camera. The C300 II is nowhere to be seen, where before the C300 was always No.1. 

For sure, the Canon has the prettiest image and DPAF, however with more productions calling for high quality HFR - Sony succeeded massively. The FS7 today still has sexier specs than cameras released now. 

Even on shoots now with many cameras and shooters (at least the ones I’m on)  - I’ve seen all the cameras being used are Sony now, where in 2012 it was all Canon. They’ve simply lost their hold. 

I think the only thing the C300mkii had on the FS7 was 444 color in HD, imo not worth the extra $8,000.

4K 60 10 bit 422, up to 600mbps intraframe, 14 stops of DR, 180fps and 120fps at 1080, pro audio, NDs, and better ergonomics out of the box - the FS7 is simply the perfect documentary video camera and since I specialize in sports videography its sorta my dream camera. 

[IronFilm]

37 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

I think the only thing the C300mkii had on the FS7 was 444 color in HD, imo not worth the extra $8,000.

C300mk2 had a few other advantages:
AF / genlock / timecode (without needing Sony's XDCA back)

But yes, I agree, very few people felt that was worth the very large extra expense.

Plus the C300mk2 had some other weird hidden flaws too (just as the Canon EOS R has!).

Like when in 4K mode you couldn't use the camera monitor / EVF / SDI all at once?! I remember that being very frustrating on set. While a Sony FS7 has no such limitations.

Another limitation was the C300 couldn't apply a LUT to the SDI output so your director doesn't freak out. The FS7 can do this. Even my old Sony PMW-F3 can do this! This is a very bad thing if you're working with a non-technical director who is obsessing over the look of the film but doesn't understand Log. Of course you can work around this by using a stand alone monitor which supports LUTs, but why should you? When the camera should do this itself. 

[graphicnatured]

44 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

I think the only thing the C300mkii had on the FS7 was 444 color in HD, imo not worth the extra $8,000.

4K 60 10 bit 422, up to 600mbps intraframe, 14 stops of DR, 180fps and 120fps at 1080, pro audio, NDs, and better ergonomics out of the box - the FS7 is simply the perfect documentary video camera and since I specialize in sports videography its sorta my dream camera. 

Not comparing those two cams, but I shoot sports too and I can't stand the FS7. I love the frame rates and DR, but it's a pain to use. I know I'm more a less-is-more person when it comes to cameras, but the menu system blows and the flavors of log and ways you have to use them is just way too much for me. I couldn't wait for my company to ditch that thing. I know a lot of people love it, but not me.

[Alex Uzan]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

"Except for the fact this camera makes you a cup of coffee in the morning and farts golden fairy dust, what else is interesting?"

I dunno....  colors and great dynamic range seems like two really important things to me! No need to say "Except..." next to that. 

Ok, let's try again ?
Except the colors and the DR 13 stops which both are already really impressive on others cam like the Xt-3 and a7iii, do you see anything else really interesting in this P4k ?

To be fair, I really want to see a true review about it, by Andrew or Chris&Jordan, before give up the idea of buying it.
 

[Anaconda_]

you are right, the cameras you mention will mostly do the job, and they'll do it very well, but the P4k is cheaper if you go by body only prices - any extras you want to add is up to you.

Here's a few extra things that I'm excited about that the other cameras don't have:

Built in audio options

Timecode

Fantastic low light performance

Flexibility - Big rig or handheld (make a blockbuster or blend in with the tourists and shoot without permission - I know this is also true for the other cameras, but it seems more accessible with the P4k with it's battery/power options)

Uncluttered user experience

Free Resolve

Braw will be unbelievable when it reaches the P4k

[Kisaha]

8 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

Ok, let's try again ?
Except the colors and the DR 13 stops which both are already really impressive on others cam like the Xt-3 and a7iii, do you see anything else really interesting in this P4k ?

To be fair, I really want to see a true review about it, by Andrew or Chris&Jordan, before give up the idea of buying it.
 

Are you serious?! 15 hours ago I replied to the same question. Check it out.

[Alex Uzan]

15 hours ago, Kisaha said:

5" monitor/recorder with XLR, usb C recording, equal or better low light performance than most APS-C cameras in the market and on top of that a video camera as a bonus!

You went for the X-T3.

"- Poor battery life (40min is not acceptable)" - Fuji is similar or worst
"- Drop frame in raw 4k60 (!)" - Fuji isn't even close to that, certainly no raw at all
"- No way to use a powerbank and a SSD" - no way to use an SSD on any other camera. Period.
"- No Ibis, and Im ok with that since I have a Gimbal, but with no afc (even a bad one like GH5) it will be painful to use" - Fuji certainly has no IBIS.Zone focus.
"- The design with the hole on top for ventilation scares me a little for durability." - all video cameras have extensive heat management solutions
"- No remote control compatibility with any gimbal (but that could change)" - that will change
"- The 120p crop" - yes, stupid, but in 4 years I have used my hybrid system in 120p just in one project.
"- No tilt screen ( I don't care about fully articully)" - at least it has a 5" display, others too small and dim anyway. I am using SmallHD Focus with everything.

I didn't see your answer, but ok ?
 

Poor battery life (40min is not acceptable)" - Fuji is similar or worst
Similar, not worst. And it's a pity

- Drop frame in raw 4k60 (!)" - Fuji isn't even close to that, certainly no raw at all
That's true, but it's not the main reason I Bought it.
When you ask people about The pocket 4k, it's the 4k60 raw thing that mak them dream.

- No way to use a powerbank and a SSD" - no way to use an SSD on any other camera. Period.
Maybe an USBc adapter with two input could be released

- No Ibis, and Im ok with that since I have a Gimbal, but with no afc (even a bad one like GH5) it will be painful to use" - Fuji certainly has no IBIS.Zone focus.
Yes, but it works well. Not as good as the A7 though.

- The design with the hole on top for ventilation scares me a little for durability." - all video cameras have extensive heat management solutions
Yes, but a big hole on the top ? We need to get more info about this.

- No remote control compatibility with any gimbal (but that could change)" - that will change
Hopefully

- The 120p crop" - yes, stupid, but in 4 years I have used my hybrid system in 120p just in one project.
Ok, but your personnal work is not relevant about this. We all have different need.
And 120p crop x4 is just not acceptable.

- No tilt screen ( I don't care about fully articully)" - at least it has a 5" display, others too small and dim anyway. I am using SmallHD Focus with everything.
Good for you. but you lose all the pocket 4k tactile features. and add wheigt.

Just to clarify, my answers are not about I'm right and you're wrong.
I really enjoy to share thoughts about gear with other gear mates ?

[Anaconda_]

9 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

Maybe an USBc adapter with two input could be released

You can't power the camera through the USB, only charge the battery when the camera is off. there is another power socket to run the camera off the mains or Vmount etc. Powering the camera externally and recording to a USBc drive is not a problem.

10 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

Yes, but a big hole on the top ? We need to get more info about this.

All the Ursa cameras have even bigger holes on the top and bottom. I've seen them used in the desert to film rhinos. I don't think that will be an issue at all.

11 minutes ago, Alex Uzan said:

- Drop frame in raw 4k60 (!)" - Fuji isn't even close to that, certainly no raw at all
That's true, but it's not the main reason I Bought it.
When you ask people about The pocket 4k, it's the 4k60 raw thing that mak them dream.

Only if you want to record uncompressed RAW, I think you can do 4:1. Either way, as soon as Braw hits this cam, that's not an issue anymore.

[Alex Uzan]

16 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

1) You can't power the camera through the USB, only charge the battery when the camera is off. there is another power socket to run the camera off the mains or Vmount etc. Powering the camera externally and recording to a USBc drive is not a problem.

2)All the Ursa cameras have even bigger holes on the top and bottom. I've seen them used in the desert to film rhinos. I don't think that will be an issue at all.

3) Only if you want to record uncompressed RAW, I think you can do 4:1. Either way, as soon as Braw hits this cam, that's not an issue anymore.

1) What ? are you sure about that ?

2) Good to know ?

3) Yes, Braw should fix this.

[Anaconda_]

Yes very sure. You can only charge through the USBc but there is a locking power socket right next to it for alternative battery options. 

[Kisaha]

@Alex Uzan me too! No worries!

I have 4 hybrid cameras, so I am in the market for a dedicated video camera.

X-T3 is an amazing camera, the target groups of those cameras are very far apart. 

Most of the video professionals in my country are talking about buying one, so I am pretty sure this will be the best selling BM camera.

I find the 3" camera screens unusable anyway, especially under the ultra bright Mediterranean sun, and the boom of the 5" monitor/recording market says a lot.

[Alex Uzan]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@Alex Uzan me too! No worries!

I have 4 hybrid cameras, so I am in the market for a dedicated video camera.

X-T3 is an amazing camera, the target groups of those cameras are very far apart. 

Most of the video professionals in my country are talking about buying one, so I am pretty sure this will be the best selling BM camera.

I find the 3" camera screens unusable anyway, especially under the ultra bright Mediterranean sun, and the boom of the 5" monitor/recording market says a lot.

Actually, as much as I love the X-T3 ergonomics, I'm not sure to keep it.

My biggest issue is the Fuji lens system.
The faster primes are really expensive, and less good that their Sony equivalent, especially for video.

Everyone says Sony Lenses are big and expensive, and you should consider it before to go Fullframe.
I disagree.

The Fuji 56f1.2 is three hundred more than the Sony 85 1.8, and has slower AF, is less sharp open wide, and have less nicer bokeh (sorry for my english)
The 8-16 will cost 2 grands, the 55-140 is at the same price as the Sony 70/200f4
23f1.4 à 850€ - 14f2.8 890€ - 90f2 and 16f1.4 930€

It's very expensive for APS-C lenses, and I could accept their price if they were perfect, but they're not.

So, either I keep the fuji X-T3 but will buy f2 XR lenses only, either I sent it back.