Tru Horizon?

[mercer]

Does anyone use a Glidecam, or any steadicam, with a Tru Horizon gimbal head?

I’m writing a thriller I want to shoot this winter, with my 5D3, and would like to incorporate some movement into the shots. I’ve never used a gimbal and have very little experience with a steady cam.

Originally, I was looking at a two handled gimbal but they seem so big and bulky but the single handled versions seem tiring? The Glidecam Centurion has an interesting top handle configuration that looks intriguing but the reviews seem mixed.

When I stumbled upon the Glidecam XR and Tru Horizon combo, it seemed like an interesting compromise?

Any info for a beginner gimbal/steady cam user looking for a relatively simple way to get some kinetic movement in their shots would be very appreciated.

[scotchtape]

I really suggest using an electronic gimbal.  They are much more convenient and easy to use.

The traditional steadicam type setups take forever to balance if you are new, and if you change anything on your setup you have to constantly adjust the balance etc.

You can always rent a movi or something if you need to, but for 5D3 a Ronin-S should be sufficient.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Originally, I was looking at a two handled gimbal but they seem so big and bulky but the single handled versions seem tiring? The Glidecam Centurion has an interesting top handle configuration that looks intriguing but the reviews seem mixed.

 

I don't know anything about the Glidecam product but a while back I was looking at Z axis addons for one handed gimbals.

I got caught up in other stuff so didn't end up getting one but I was looking again the other day and they seemed to have come down in price a lot.

The one in this review is about £65 on Amazon and could be a two birds with one stone solution with regard to reducing fatigue as well as adding what from this video appears to be an impreasive degree of additional stabilisation.

With it being an add on it also gives you that option to remove it and just use the one hand unit when you need a bit more low profile.

https://youtu.be/_wmaNdImgf0

[JordanWright]

Ive never used a true horizon head but I've had a lot of experience with glidecams. There is quite a big learning curve so if you plan on operating, I'd recommend getting some practice before using it on a shoot. Also a vest and arm system makes operation over long periods much easier.

[leslie]

no experience with the tru horizon, but  i do have a s40 steadicam. $40 aus,  reasonable price i thought.  its cheap, but it seems sturdy enough  for what its got to do, its smooth in all the axis movements and moves freely with no play. i would expect the pricier models to be the same if not better somehow , maybe better damping perhaps. as i have watched a few videos on line and mine seems to take longer to settle when its setup but i suspect i'm missing a technical principal but i don't know which lol. i did consider a carbon fiber model but the fact that even though its carbon fiber,  depending on the camera on top and the weights on the bottom i didn't feel that carbon fiber could make much difference to the total weight saving, perhaps it does. that was one aspect i  didn't take into consideration the weight difference between an alloy or carbon fiber steadicam  in my research

balancing the unit is is where you gonna spend some time. it does pay off spending time getting it balanced nicely. depending on how much you pull it apart for travel will affect how much time it takes to set up the next time you use it. my quick release bracket for the go pro cameras has dual bubble level at 90 degrees i find it most useful when setting up. little changes to the rig make do change the balance and make it like you gave the camera to a drunk  and so must be rebalanced. don't ask me how i know this ?  

it does get heavy or tiring quickly. how tiring depends, if your walking around filming a country fair then your gonna need a bionic arm . if its shorter takes then it may not be such an issue but will still need breaks unless your built like Arnold Schwarzenegger,  perhaps i should workout more. as mentioned above lots of practice. i have heard it said, walk like a ninja not sure how accurate that is but you do need a more considered approach for ultimate smoothness. 

a vest and arm system sounds great, anything that takes the weight off that hand, wrist, arm  will make for a much more tolerable day  but it does come back to your use and length of shots that you anticipate  and from my little research adds another $500 or more to the cost of a steadicam and i haven't arrived at that stage yet, but everyone's need are different. 

some shots of my rig. i set it up like this to do some comparisons between my gopro cameras i'll change things back to a more conventional setup later. the gopro mic adapter arrived last week and it needs a little mount made for it as it swings in the breeze at the moment i also had to lift the mic up abit otherwise it intrudes into the video other than that it works ok. i hope some of the above helps

 

[leslie]

i'd also like to add wind has an affect on the steadicam as well, went outside this afternoon  to practice with it  and its very windy, i did adjust the bottom too its full extent and that did help balance it in the wind, however blustery winds and the dead cat on top perhaps made for none to steady imagery.....  consequently  i gave up

[dantheman]

I would just buy a electronic gimbal that supports the weight of your 5D, they are a lot easier to operate for beginners and can be used in windy conditions. Mechanical steadicams like a glidecam requires much more experience and are trown off balance more easily outside. A true horizon gimbal head would be interesting if you allready own a glidecam (and vest/arm)  but if not save yourselve the trouble and get a gimbal instead, gimbals will allow you to quicker achieve controlled movements.

[mercer]

22 hours ago, scotchtape said:

I really suggest using an electronic gimbal.  They are much more convenient and easy to use.

The traditional steadicam type setups take forever to balance if you are new, and if you change anything on your setup you have to constantly adjust the balance etc.

You can always rent a movi or something if you need to, but for 5D3 a Ronin-S should be sufficient.

Thanks, I assumed a gimbal would be a better option. Do you think the Ronin-S is the best on the market for the price?

22 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I don't know anything about the Glidecam product but a while back I was looking at Z axis addons for one handed gimbals.

I got caught up in other stuff so didn't end up getting one but I was looking again the other day and they seemed to have come down in price a lot.

The one in this review is about £65 on Amazon and could be a two birds with one stone solution with regard to reducing fatigue as well as adding what from this video appears to be an impreasive degree of additional stabilisation.

With it being an add on it also gives you that option to remove it and just use the one hand unit when you need a bit more low profile.

https://youtu.be/_wmaNdImgf0

Interestingly, I was looking at some Osmo gimbal cameras. I’ve been secretly pining over the X5R and even the X5 looks pretty decent but then it seems the Z-axis add on takes something that is small and manageable into large and cumbersome territory.

That’s a cool product you linked to and certainly the price is right, even if it does look like a medieval torture device... I wonder if one of those would help make IBIS cameras walkable.

[BTM_Pix]

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

 

Interestingly, I was looking at some Osmo gimbal cameras. I’ve been secretly pining over the X5R and even the X5 looks pretty decent but then it seems the Z-axis add on takes something that is small and manageable into large and cumbersome territory.

That’s a cool product you linked to and certainly the price is right, even if it does look like a medieval torture device... I wonder if one of those would help make IBIS cameras walkable.

I have the Z Axis for the Osmo.

Its not cumbersome and it is effective but it does make people stare a little bit. By which I mean a lot.

I am going to pick up one of those ones I linked to in a couple of weeks and my exact thoughts were how it would fare with an IBIS camera (specifically my cinevised A6500 ) so I'll let you know!

[mercer]

17 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Ive never used a true horizon head but I've had a lot of experience with glidecams. There is quite a big learning curve so if you plan on operating, I'd recommend getting some practice before using it on a shoot. Also a vest and arm system makes operation over long periods much easier.

Yes, I would be the operator and as much as I prefer the look of a Glidecam, I don’t know if I have the time to really get good at it before shooting begins in December.

Like @leslie ‘s S40, I have a cheap Merlin copy made by Vidpro. It actually works fairly well except for the obvious wind drift... after a day or two of practicing with it (a few years back) I was able to get my index finger to reign it in a little but even that wasn’t perfect... which I guess a gimbal would cure more easily?

This film doesn’t need long, silky smooth movements. I was going to use cuts to make it feel more frenetic. So I wouldn’t be following the talent around as much as I would be meeting them at a mark, or pushing them in a different direction as though the camera was a constant obstacle in their chase scene.

7 hours ago, dantheman said:

I would just buy a electronic gimbal that supports the weight of your 5D, they are a lot easier to operate for beginners and can be used in windy conditions. Mechanical steadicams like a glidecam requires much more experience and are trown off balance more easily outside. A true horizon gimbal head would be interesting if you allready own a glidecam (and vest/arm)  but if not save yourselve the trouble and get a gimbal instead, gimbals will allow you to quicker achieve controlled movements.

Thanks, it does seem that a gimbal will be more beneficial. @scotchtape recommended the Ronin-S, do you have any other recommendations? I don’t mind spending the money on it but a cheaper alternative would also be good... especially since my concurrent project is a completely static film on sticks.

I had a look at the BH site and as I mentioned, the Glidecam Centurion has a briefcase mode which seems very intuitive to me for some low profile shots...

 

But that model doesn’t seem to have many reviews.

I’ve also heard some okay things about the Beholder and obviously the Crane. An AF wheel would be a plus as well, I guess.

[mercer]

I also saw a video John Brawley made with the E-M5ii where he used it conjunction with the Defy G2. That double handled model seemed to be a relatively small size and not too draining on the arms.

Anyway, any info is much appreciated. 

18 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I have the Z Axis for the Osmo.

Its not cumbersome and it is effective but it does make people stare a little bit. By which I mean a lot.

I am going to pick up one of those ones I linked to in a couple of weeks and my exact thoughts were how it would fare with an IBIS camera (specifically my cinevised A6500 ) so I'll let you know!

Yeah, I wonder if you could rig a tripod column to hook into it?

Btw, which Osmo do you have?

[dantheman]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

do you have any other recommendations?

I have the first generation zhiyun crane (bought it in aug 2016) and have been very satisfied with it, had a beholder ds1 before that for a year which I liked because of the small size but it did not perform well as I got jitter in my footage, something that is not the case with the zhiyun. what I most like about it is batterylife, it just keeps going Currently I"m using a Panasonic gx80 with a laowa 7,5mm f2 and I use a quick release plate so I only had to balance once and then never again. Today there is so much choice and prices have gone down considerably, I don't think you can go wrong with any gimbal, much depends on your needs and what features it needs to have.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Btw, which Osmo do you have?

The Osmo Plus.

The zoom option lets me use it as a glorified PTZ camera for live press conferences.

[Thomas Hill]

Even though, it's made for gimbals, I used a handle bar thing similar to this (but cheaper) with an a7iii and got some nice handheld shots, some limited walking shots, too. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1265758-REG/ikan_dgh_dual_grip_gimbal_handle.html

 

[mercer]

21 minutes ago, Thomas Hill said:

Even though, it's made for gimbals, I used a handle bar thing similar to this (but cheaper) with an a7iii and got some nice handheld shots, some limited walking shots, too. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1265758-REG/ikan_dgh_dual_grip_gimbal_handle.html

 

Thanks, I have a couple handles like that already in various sizes but the pictures really let me see how big a Beholder is... with the double handle, it seems like the right sized configuration, I’ve been looking for. 

[scotchtape]

You have to get a gimbal that can support the weight of your system. 

5d3 and lenses can get really heavy plus it doesn't have a tilt or swing out screen.

Do the math and make sure you are considerably under the limit for best performance.

Most of the older gimbals have the motor blocking the back of the camera, which is is fine if you have a gh camera but sucks for fixed screen cams.

Also you won't be able to balance any longer lenses on it, not sure what lenses you are planning on using.

I have crane v2, crane 2, shining, and dji ronin-s. Crane is fine for gh5 but for a7iii I use the ronin-s. 

The double handle thing you can get one for under $30 on eBay.

Zhiyun and dji ronin-s are easily resellable but other gimbals are less known.  The Feiyu stuff looks interesting but I have no experience with them. They have the ak4000 still not released that is pretty much their ronin-s but $150 cheaper, if it's actually good it will be worth it.

Ronin-s is still hot so you can resell it pretty easily right now (out of stock everywhere). Also kind of heavy but still manageable.

Oh yeah check out moza air 2 as well.

[mercer]

55 minutes ago, scotchtape said:

You have to get a gimbal that can support the weight of your system. 

5d3 and lenses can get really heavy plus it doesn't have a tilt or swing out screen.

Do the math and make sure you are considerably under the limit for best performance.

Most of the older gimbals have the motor blocking the back of the camera, which is is fine if you have a gh camera but sucks for fixed screen cams.

Also you won't be able to balance any longer lenses on it, not sure what lenses you are planning on using.

I have crane v2, crane 2, shining, and dji ronin-s. Crane is fine for gh5 but for a7iii I use the ronin-s. 

The double handle thing you can get one for under $30 on eBay.

Zhiyun and dji ronin-s are easily resellable but other gimbals are less known.  The Feiyu stuff looks interesting but I have no experience with them. They have the ak4000 still not released that is pretty much their ronin-s but $150 cheaper, if it's actually good it will be worth it.

Ronin-s is still hot so you can resell it pretty easily right now (out of stock everywhere). Also kind of heavy but still manageable.

Oh yeah check out moza air 2 as well.

Good tips, thanks. For this specific project, I am not a hundred percent sure that I am going to use the 5D3, but I figure it’s better to get one that can carry the heavier weight. Most likely I’ll use the 35mm f/2 IS lens with it but I may also want to use the 24-70mm f/4... with the camera and lens, the weight should be around 3lbs but I’ll have to double check to be sure. Are there issues with lighter set ups on larger gimbals creating problems. I may also pick up an M50 or EM10iii this fall, so I guess it would be nice to be able to use the same gimbal. But if I do decide to go with a smaller, lighter camera for this project, I may go with a smaller, lighter gimbal.

On a different note, I assume this is impossible due to weight limitations, but I really like the design of the Freefly Mövi iPhone Camera Robot... it would be really cool if the iPhone mount could be modified to make an RX100iv or other small p&s camera to work with it.

[scotchtape]

If the setup is too light you can always add weight with washers etc.

[kye]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

On a different note, I assume this is impossible due to weight limitations, but I really like the design of the Freefly Mövi iPhone Camera Robot... it would be really cool if the iPhone mount could be modified to make an RX100iv or other small p&s camera to work with it.

I would imagine there's no hope of that - partly due to the motors likely being as only powerful enough to move the phone around, but also the centre of mass of a phone is within its thickness and anything you mount will be sticking a lot further forwards or backwards and wouldn't balance.

In terms of those handles with springs to smooth out vertical motion, I doubt they can be used at an angle, which would mean that you have to have the gimbal handle vertical for the whole shot.  This is possible, but if your shot requires any tilting then you'll have to operate it electronically instead of using the gimbal in a follow mode.  Also, will you have the room to manoeuvre if the rig is vertical?  You probably would, but just make sure.  One of the awesome things about a gimbal is that you can put it in follow mode and then run around waving it like a sword and get whatever shots you want, panning and tilting as you desire, and fitting through tight spots and holding it comfortably as you go.

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah the Ronin S definitely is the best bang for your buck right now. Although cheaper models can be very suitable, especially if you get a dual arm for them.