Canon EOS R first impressions - INSANE split personality camera

[plucas]

On 9/19/2019 at 4:13 AM, ntblowz said:

I had a73 and R myself too, i dunno about you but i can mix R's 1080p with c200/c100ii and no body tells the difference, a73 is a bit harder because of colour difference hence i sold it later.

A6x00's 1080p is really soft which the difference is much more obvious.

Is that the 1080p in crop mode only? I've heard that the crop mode is much sharper than the full frame mode, which some say is "mediocre by 2012 standards."

I'd like to see a 1080p comparison sometime between the c100 and the EOS R.

On another matter, Why is there no option to record 1080p in 10 bit on the EOS R?

Product line preservation? Sure. But they included 10 bit 4:2:2 output which not even the c200 can do.

[Snowbro]

7 hours ago, nathlas said:

Has anyone tried new firmware 1.4.0 for compare the AF differences ?

I should have another EOS R at the end of the week. I have sent back a few of them because: First copy was a launch model and repeatedly froze and you could barely recover 1 stop in the shadows without seeing colored horizontal banding that was random. Second copy the continuous AF (video) would stop working, but looked like it was; had to turn off and on to make it work again. Third copy I had more freezing issues and a stuck pixel. 

They definitely are not built to the same standard as my 1D cameras, but they have actually fixed a lot through firmware updates. It is a very good camera for photos with some 1080p video, or locked off 4k. I use it for 90% photos. The eye AF wasn't terrible before, it just didn't update the box on your screen very accurately (still nailed shot). Now, it fixes that, plus lets eye AF work from a long ways away. 

The 1080p 24-30p actually looks really clean, but the 60p is muddy imo. 4k handheld with an IS lens (RF 24-105) can't even be stabilized in post because of the high RS of the camera. The lens IS isn't good enough to not stabilize in post, at least on that lens. I just ordered the new RF 24-70 f/2.8L, i'll see if that IS is any better. Honestly, I found that the 1080p with the lowest digital IS setting actually works damn good. You don't ever have any weird jerky/twitchy or sticky moments like you do with optical/ibis stabilization. I walked around NYC with a sigma 35mm and the digital IS on and it cropped in less than what warp stabilizer usually does and it looked nearly gimbal smooth. 

1 hour ago, plucas said:

Is that the 1080p in crop mode only? I've heard that the crop mode is much sharper than the full frame mode, which some say is "mediocre by 2012 standards."

I'd like to see a 1080p comparison sometime between the c100 and the EOS R.

On another matter, Why is there no option to record 1080p in 10 bit on the EOS R?

Product line preservation? Sure. But they included 10 bit 4:2:2 output which not even the c200 can do.

I linked the vimeo video last year, but a Canon rep/engineer or someone of that nature, demoed the 1080p S35 mode in the EOS R. He said that it super samples in the S35 mode, I have tried it and it looks very impressive. The FF 1080p on the camera looks good as is.  

[nathlas]

8 hours ago, Snowbro said:

The eye AF wasn't terrible before, it just didn't update the box on your screen very accurately (still nailed shot).  

The have to fix that too. Eye equipped objects usually are not nailed....so they have to use that in burst mode too.

[Snowbro]

39 minutes ago, nathlas said:

The have to fix that too. Eye equipped objects usually are not nailed....so they have to use that in burst mode too.

You mean the 2 fps burst mode when using tracking on the eos r? lol

[nathlas]

Exactly ?

 

Ok it's not the high fps camera (not even average) but they could have EyeAF on CAF mode in more that one (single) shot.

[nathlas]

Has anyone tried or compare the adapter with ND variable or cirpolariser filters ? 

 

I especially variable ND at top high quality class? Any idea who's providing that ? 

[plucas]

5 hours ago, nathlas said:

Has anyone tried or compare the adapter with ND variable or cirpolariser filters ? 

 

I especially variable ND at top high quality class? Any idea who's providing that ? 

There's some reviews in on YouTube:

 

[Kisaha]

5 hours ago, plucas said:

There's some reviews in on YouTube:

 

Very good negative points in the end. What if you do not need the ND? Where do you put it? What do you do about the huge hole very near your sensor?

Legitimate questions and worries.

I am trying to decide between the new Hoya HD nano/B&W or the Polarpro at the moment, but if I owned the Canon, having it internally is a game changer,

BUT, what do you do when you use a native lens? and I always have some native lenses, whatever the mount. That is another thing to consider, spending top money for the newer and most advanced Canon lenses, and still you need a vND in front of your lens.

[thebrothersthre3]

Yeah really needs to be Electronic ND so you can turn if off. 

[nathlas]

Yeah unless you are certain of not buy RF lenses ( that would be weird since those lenses are the spear of R system) 

 

They should put that in body even if mount was projectile like BMPCC6k.

 

Adapter with control ring is also usefall but this one could be a forever addon IF you didn't have to put a clear filter to fill the hole (why have a clear filter instead of nothing? a simple cap would do the job unless there is a reason for a glass to exist in that place ? ) and if that included a control ring as well.

[nathlas]

1) All reviews I have seen refer to color cast at the very end (near 9 stops) that anyway it will be rarely used.So it is there (it's no perfect like B&W or PolarPro varNDs) but difficult to face .

2) The range is a mystery. Some refer to that as 1,5-9 stops, some 1-9 stops only AVpro that I trust more refer to that as 2.5-9 stops range.

3) The weird with clear filter is that you have to buy that. Seems stupid. It's cheaper and more flexible to own the simple adapter or the one with control ring to use when you don't want some stops (2.5 according to AVpro) in front of your lens at least.

 

CPL filter on the contrary is not that usefall as the varND that is a killer addon.

[docmoore]

I may not make a lot of points with the following:

Man up and accept that a Variable ND is not a series of internal ND filters on a Cinema Camera.

Canon has given you an alternative ... and a clear hole filler at a bargain price ... $500 USD for both ... to purchasing a C200/300 II/500 II

No vignetting color good to 8 stops works with all the EOS adapted lenses ...

We are not going to find the perfect camera or system ... but what is available to us today kills all the older stuff.

Days of 'Mosquito noise' with the EX1R are gone ... Log 4K with a crop Stills Old EOS lens compatibility ....

Most pathetic are the guys on YT who complain that there is not a Hermes case for the adapter when you are not using it ...

Get real ... if it does not meet your perceived needs ... buy something else.

As close to internal NDs as you will find south of $5K

 

[thebrothersthre3]

22 minutes ago, docmoore said:

I may not make a lot of points with the following:

Man up and accept that a Variable ND is not a series of internal ND filters on a Cinema Camera.

Canon has given you an alternative ... and a clear hole filler at a bargain price ... $500 USD for both ... to purchasing a C200/300 II/500 II

No vignetting color good to 8 stops works with all the EOS adapted lenses ...

We are not going to find the perfect camera or system ... but what is available to us today kills all the older stuff.

Days of 'Mosquito noise' with the EX1R are gone ... Log 4K with a crop Stills Old EOS lens compatibility ....

Most pathetic are the guys on YT who complain that there is not a Hermes case for the adapter when you are not using it ...

Get real ... if it does not meet your perceived needs ... buy something else.

As close to internal NDs as you will find south of $5K

 

Its cool, but at that price point I could just buy an external Vari ND for all my lenses or at least all I'd use on a given day. I guess these would be less prone to flaring. 

The bigger appeal of internals ND's is being able to turn them off or on without removing anything. This doesn't really solve that. 

[docmoore]

You are right.

They may have done better with a 0 - 6 stop or 7.5 stop ND ... not sure if that would be possible as I assume that the elements

cannot be removed from the image path.

I have ext Vari NDs for 12 lenses ... 7 different sizes ... and non Vari NDs for matte box and 82 mm sizes. Two large filter packets and

another two pouches for the matte box 4.5 x 6 glass Schneider filters.  Have to say that one adapter with ND sounds like a bit easier

than all the others. Two of the Schneiders or two of the Firecrest Ultras would pay for the adapter.

If you have a couple of lenses you may not want this ....

I keep looking at larger cine cams with internal NDs ... much more convenient.

[nathlas]

I believe that a solution to use that as well on RF lenses would be number one demand if we could vote

[thebrothersthre3]

3 hours ago, docmoore said:

You are right.

They may have done better with a 0 - 6 stop or 7.5 stop ND ... not sure if that would be possible as I assume that the elements

cannot be removed from the image path.

I have ext Vari NDs for 12 lenses ... 7 different sizes ... and non Vari NDs for matte box and 82 mm sizes. Two large filter packets and

another two pouches for the matte box 4.5 x 6 glass Schneider filters.  Have to say that one adapter with ND sounds like a bit easier

than all the others. Two of the Schneiders or two of the Firecrest Ultras would pay for the adapter.

If you have a couple of lenses you may not want this ....

I keep looking at larger cine cams with internal NDs ... much more convenient.

I don't use all my lenses at once on any given day though. It also limits you to just one mount lenses.

[hmcindie]

I was between buying the EOS R or the BMCC6k. Went with the R because the BMCC sounded like a slog to use (20min batteries, have to be rigged around etc).

Tested it a couple of weeks ago and yesterday managed to shoot with the EOS R and BMCC6k together (a buddy borrowed the BMCC6k, ronin s and an atomos ninja v to fool around). Loving the R, loving the usability, tilting screen, image quality in 4k clog (internal is great, not really appreciating the 10bit output).

BMCC6k was just horrid usability wise, I kept smashing all kinds of buttons just keeping that thing in my hand. Used a lot of 2.8k 120fps and that was a huuuge crop making the 1.7 crop on the R seem like nothing (my 10mm became like a 30mm). Also that screen on the BMCC was surprisingly rubbish and the preloaded LUT for visual aid complete shite.

Will be analysing the footage more closely later but I don't really give a damn about pixel peeping anymore.

Later I'll be editing the 4k clog (8&10bit), braw (6k,2k) and couple of shots 1080p60 from the R all together. Used the 15-35mm f2.8 RF lens on R and that thing on the RONIN S was a wonder to use. It locks on to faces with the 1.4.0 firmware and no sound comes from the lens.

Still loving my old 5d mark III RAW but for shootings where we actually need playback the R will come really handy.

9 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Its cool, but at that price point I could just buy an external Vari ND for all my lenses or at least all I'd use on a given day. I guess these would be less prone to flaring. 

The bigger appeal of internals ND's is being able to turn them off or on without removing anything. This doesn't really solve that. 

That doesn't make any sense. When you need an ND when filming is usually outside in the sun. If you have that ND there you can easily get to that coveted 180 degree shutter. You don't need to remove it until it gets really dark. And after that you will not need to put it back on. Your vari ND will have less quality and just fiddly.

Also if you buy the ND adapter you will most likely have the regular adapter too. Instead of taking out the ND in the adapter, just switch adapters. It takes 10 seconds and is usually done after it gets dark.

[Snowbro]

I don't know if they changed the AWB in a firmware since last year, but my new copy is terrible in that regards. The AWB on the 1DX II was the first camera that I didn't have to even bother setting my WB for, it always nailed it. The EOS R was decent, but not quite as good as the 1DX. This new copy sets everything really blue 95% of the time, doesn't matter what priority mode. Anyone else had this? I'll just have to spend extra time checking WB, or just not shoot video on this at all. 

[Adam Kuźniar]

40 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

BMCC sounded like a slog to use (20min batteries, have to be rigged around etc)

Oh man I hope you never have to shoot with any cinema camera (which the Pocket is) because they all HAVE to be rigged to be used. Damn, that Alexa Mini must be so shit because it doesn't even have a battery slot.

40 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

I kept smashing all kinds of buttons just keeping that thing in my hand

That's user error, not the camera's fault.

40 minutes ago, hmcindie said:

Used a lot of 2.8k 120fps and that was a huuuge crop making the 1.7 crop on the R seem like nothing

Yeah but the difference is you get that crop in resolution and frame rate that the R can't even dream of achieving. 

In general I just feel like you went in with the "pocket sux and lemme prove that" approach and it influenced your experiences. R sounds like a much better choice for your workflow though and I can agree with that.

[hmcindie]

14 minutes ago, Adam Kuźniar said:

Oh man I hope you never have to shoot with any cinema camera (which the Pocket is) because they all HAVE to be rigged to be used. Damn, that Alexa Mini must be so shit because it doesn't even have a battery slot.

That's user error, not the camera's fault.

Yeah but the difference is you get that crop in resolution and frame rate that the R can't even dream of achieving. 

In general I just feel like you went in with the "pocket sux and lemme prove that" approach and it influenced your experiences. R sounds like a much better choice for your workflow though and I can agree with that.

1. I love the Alexa Mini and the Ursa pro. You don't accidentally hit the iris button like on the BMCC6k. My buddy also kept hitting it just by holding that shitty thing so that also makes it the cameras fault. Sure "user error" but that button doesn't even seem to go down to react to anything. Put some gloves and hit that thing in the winter. You'll get used to it (as you get used to anything) but it was an obvious design error (actually the whole camera seems to be a weird design error, excluding the excellent sensor). Also I don't remember rigging the ursa pro that much and I did handheld with the Alexa mini. Which oddly is easier on the Alexa as the weight gives it a bit more stability.

2. Crop / resolution. Duh. Still it is a huge crop so all that resolution goes to "waste" for closeups when I would really need them for wider ones.

3. I'm not talking about the image yet, it may blow me away as I grade (which it hasn't yet as I'm just looking at everything through the braw plugin in premiere).