Canon EOS R first impressions - INSANE split personality camera

[webrunner5]

And to top it off, my C100 I had on order fell through. Something about their PayPal account. I got my money back thank god. So I really may consider getting a M50! Why not. That video above with Gordan is just amazing for 1080p, colors, face detect, even IS. What the heck else you need for just shooting. Even has a mike input. A person is crazy not to at least have one.

Look what @mojo43 is doing with minimal equipment. I need my ass kicked to have a bunch of crazy stuff when I can use something this small and cheap.      @mojo43

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Heck the 1080p on the M50 is using DPAF and is as sharp as a Canon C100. And has a Flippy screen. I don't see why a person would pay the money for a EOS-R to be honest.

It's a full frame stills camera. The m50 is not. Easy to forget on a video forum. But stills cameras are stills cameras and it will always need to be taken into consideration when asking "why".

[webrunner5]

Isn't anybody going to go out and hang big ass lenses on a Canon anymore for the average person.  They are going to buy m4/3 for that. I can take all the photos I need with my Smartphone. Nobody prints anymore anyways. I literally threw my Canon Pro printer in the trash a few weeks ago. It was only 2 years old. It was ALWAYS out of some one of the damn 11 inks all the time at 35 bucks a pop or more. The hell with that! And I was not going to sell it and have to ship the stupid boat anchor. Even threw away probably 250 bucks of Photo Papers with it. I have not lost a minutes sleep since.

 

[Mattias Burling]

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

 They are going to buy m4/3 for that.

Any numbers to back this up?

[webrunner5]

7 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Any numbers to back this up?

When is the last time you seen a Normal person using a 400mm, 600mm lens on a Canon? I am not talking Pros at a Olympics game.

I used to do BiF stuff for years until say a year ago or a bit more. There were hardly Anyone doing big FF lenses.Most were doing the Sony R10 mk III or the Panny FZ2500. THe rest including me were doing mostly Olympus EM1 bodies. Some doing the Nikon Series 1 bodies.

[webrunner5]

It is like all these new Lenses for the EOS-R and the Nikon Z7 with the really fast f stop lenses. Who in this day and age wants to walk around with a 3 pound 50mm?? You are not going to take anything but a few shots doing that.  You are not going on vacation with that F2 zoom lens hanging off your neck. They won't even let you in in most places anymore. Times have changed.  Sure I had all that stuff years ago. Those days are gone. People would think you are a Pedophile LoL.

But you might have a bunch of FF Canon long telephoto lenses and, sure, why not use them. All the big FF makers have come out with new longer zooms, so I guess somebody is buying them.

[Jimmy]

37 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

It is like all these new Lenses for the EOS-R and the Nikon Z7 with the really fast f stop lenses. Who in this day and age wants to walk around with a 3 pound 50mm??

hmmm... professional photographers?

[webrunner5]

29 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

hmmm... professional photographers?

All 12 of them left.

There used to be 4 full time Pro photographers in the city of 75,000 when I lived there for 30 years.  And they were so busy  years ago that I did a lot of their darkroom work for 2 of them. Now there is One, Yeah one.  And he is in his 60"s now. I bet when he retires there will be None. No Olan Mills in town either. No Sears left to even shoot at.

[Jimmy]

Ahhh... i didn't know Canon's future depended on one specific town?

There are literally 100,000s of pro photographers shooting with Canon/Nikon, worldwide

[Thomas Hill]

@webrunner5 and they just released a 32/1.4 for the M cameras. 

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Ahhh... i didn't know Canon's future depended on one specific town?

There are literally 100,000s of pro photographers shooting with Canon/Nikon, worldwide

No there is not. That is the point of my story! You think the hell my town is the only town in the world that has the same problem?? The Tit is drying up. You can take a wedding with a Smartphone. And tons of people are doing it. It is pretty much over for Pro Photographers. Hell newspapers here shoot photos, videos with a cellphone. And for interviews they use 1"sensor camcorders. I have no clue who is going to buy all this FF stuff. There is too much competition now in it.

The vast majority of people are Just going to buy the kit lens and that is it. You are not going to stay in business selling one lens and a cheap ass 50mm prime, and making 150 bucks on each body. Hell Olympus Loses 150 bucks on each body!

[Mattias Burling]

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

When is the last time you seen a Normal person using a 400mm, 600mm lens on a Canon? 

I just asked if you could back your claim about m4/3.

57 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You can take a wedding with a Smartphone. And tons of people are doing it.

Im thinking more in terms of almost no one. Guests sure. But very few throw a wedding without a dedicated photographer and they aren't using smartphones.

May I asks what town you speak of?

[webrunner5]

43 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I just asked if you could back your claim about m4/3.

Im thinking more in terms of almost no one. Guests sure. But very few throw a wedding without a dedicated photographer and they aren't using smartphones.

May I asks what town you speak of?

I told you before where I live there is like 10 people I see have even Have a camera. They aren't going to buy the EOS-R or a m4/3. And they are not going to spend 5 thousand dollars on a wedding when their friends can take photos for free. My wife's grandson just got married and they had No paid Photographer. I didn't go so no clue what it was shot on, but I bet it was mostly Smartphones that they shared with them later. Things here are a hell of a lot different than where you live apparently. A lot of young people here have no money, or very little. No jobs that pay crap and not many that are even full time. No real benefits. I guess all the jobs went to where you live. The state I live in has the one of the highest drug overdose deaths in the United States. Mostly because of no long term hope of success for young people. I live in a College town and most are just wasting their time, and going thousands and thousands of dollars in debt on student loans to work at Mc Donalds, or Dollar General when they graduate. They could give a crap about a $10,000.00 Canon lens trust me.

[Dan Sherman]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Things here are a hell of a lot different than where you live apparently. A lot of young people here have no money, or very little. No jobs that pay crap and not many that are even full time. No real benefits. I guess all the jobs went to where you live. The state I live in has the one of the highest drug overdose deaths in the United States. Mostly because of no long term hope of success for young people. I live in a College town and most are just wasting their time, and going thousands and thousands of dollars in debt on student loans to work at Mc Donalds, or Dollar General when they graduate. They could give a crap about a $10,000.00 Canon lens trust me.

I also live in a large College town 130k-ish, not counting the 40-60k of students.  I deal with a lot of interns and young new hires and this video is pretty much pinpoint accurate, with regards to how they act.

However I disagree with him about how the companies and everyone else need to take care of them and help them. We don't need a nanny state, the 'kids' just need to learn life isn't always what they want it to be and that they need to deal with it and make the best of it they can.

 

 

 

 

[Robert Collins]

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

All 12 of them left.

There used to be 4 full time Pro photographers in the city of 75,000 when I lived there for 30 years.  And they were so busy  years ago that I did a lot of their darkroom work for 2 of them. Now there is One, Yeah one.  And he is in his 60"s now. I bet when he retires there will be None. No Olan Mills in town either. No Sears left to even shoot at.

The latest data for professional photographers in the US is here.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/photographers.htm

There are 146,000 pro photogs in the US - no small number. I seem to remember that, that number has actually increased since 2010.

However, prospects arent great. The current median income is US$32,000 - 14% below the national median wage and the BLS expects the number employed to fall 6% over the next 8 years.

[Snowbro]

I feel like a dirty person. I had to order one because I am going to NYC for the first time and didn't want to lug around the 1dx lol. I will be taking 90% photos

[noone]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

All 12 of them left.

There used to be 4 full time Pro photographers in the city of 75,000 when I lived there for 30 years.  And they were so busy  years ago that I did a lot of their darkroom work for 2 of them. Now there is One, Yeah one.  And he is in his 60"s now. I bet when he retires there will be None. No Olan Mills in town either. No Sears left to even shoot at.

Sorry Webrunner, I have to disagree with you on this one.

The small city I live in (probably under 65000) in rural Australia probably has more people calling themselves professional photographers than ever before.

There are a LOT less Newspaper photogs now but lots shooting weddings, parties and anything else.     There are no shop front pro photographers here anymore (other than one bloke in a low rent area) and no photography stores (used to be several within a couple of blocks from my home with one across the road) but people earning SOME money from photography is still going VERY strong (if differently to how it was).

Geez, there is even a new office in the small building I live in that acts as an agent for around four pro photographers.

A lot of those people are also going to be doing other things and for many it might just be a sideline but there are also still plenty of full timers.

As for long and fast big lenses, well I hardly see anyone with them regardless of system (though I do use an ancient MF 300 2.8 and have used it with FF, APSC, M43 and Pentax Q).

The main reason people stick to xx-300 5.6 or 6.3 zooms is the big stuff is very expensive and the number of FF pro cameras is a fraction of cameras sold so many "pros" might have a pro camera or semi pro camera more likely (5diii or 5div rather than 1dx and maybe some with lower cameras still) but not many are making money from using long lenses.

Newspapers these days don't seem to even buy longer lenses except for the bigger papers or they are keeping them longer. 

 

[webrunner5]

41 minutes ago, noone said:

Sorry Webrunner, I have to disagree with you on this one.

The small city I live in (probably under 65000) in rural Australia probably has more people calling themselves professional photographers than ever before.

 

 

The town I live in, 24.000 local people that has that many students, about 25,000. X amount commute. But a Lot of them live on campus. And there are like 7 Photographers listed on a Google search in my city. And ONLY one has Any reviews. I know the person. Hell he doesn't even live in the city. He lives 8 miles away and his studio is at his house out in the country. The guy is good though. So Yeah there might be a bunch of them listed, but they are some jackass that has a Canon 70D and work for Mc Donald's and shoots on the side for 15 dollars a pop.

There are not that many true Pro Photographers that make a Sole living doing it. There was not that many even when I was young. Sure I took all kinds of weddings, model portfolios, but it was not my main income. Far from it. You can't work part time at something and really call yourself a Pro. My definition is that Kraft you have puts the food on the table. No some little side job. So all the numbers you hear, 80% of it is bullshit. A hell of a lot of them are Real estate shooters and they don't make shit for money, and I bet less than 5% of them make a True living doing it. It is a Vanity bullshit line. Everyone thinks they are a Pro. You have to have a Real Studio, not in your basement or garage.

[noone]

I just did a google search of photographers here and gave up counting after 6 pages (with many more to go- obviously many with multiple entries but there are PLENTY of them).

There is a University here with photography and media courses including post grad and there are a couple of defence force bases that have a lot of staff rotating through that sometimes include spouses of serving personnel who are pro shooters.

Most advertise as generalists but weddings seem to be the most mentioned with a few baby photographers ETC.

As I said, a lot have things like a 5Diii and 5Div or D850or D750 with maybe some of the more part timers using things like 6D orD600 ETC (increasing number of Sony shooters or those ADDING Sony to other brands).

The most "part time" demi-semi-pro of them would be using mid to high APSC gear with some using other formats.     Not so many (that advertise anyway) using entry level gear.

How about those mall package deal photographers?   While they are often from elsewhere, many of them are "full time" with entry APSC gear supplied, are THEY better than someone who uses top notch gear (and knows how to use it) on weekends?      Maybe they (weekend warriors) make MORE money doing something else but could still make a comfortable living shooting if they chose.

Many part timers are every bit as good as full timers but may choose to be part time for other reasons (I have no problems going to a part time Doctor).

There ARE far too many people hanging up a photographers shingle here for them all (or even most) to make a full time living but many are doing things like videography or lecturing or other art work alongside photography and some are students at University, either undergraduate or post graduate.

[Jimmy]

I imagine Canon and co have teams of people with a huge amount of data to figure out who will buy these cameras and lenses and at what point they become profitable.

The Canon R might even be a loss leader, with the next model planned to be the one that really sells the native lenses.