Canon EOS R first impressions - INSANE split personality camera

[Jimmy]

Operation yewtree wont let me change it

[Andrew Reid]

I'll do it for you.

[Snowbro]

I just got one today. I might be the only one who doesn't like the ergos. I'm 6'4" and I can only get about half of my hand on the camera if I am using it with one hand. I guess im screwed for the mirrorless age. 

Shutter button feels junky vs 1dx/5d, it can also stick if you don't press right in the middle perfectly. Again on ergos; you're thumb is going to rest on that touch bar nonsense. 

EF-RF adapter is long enough it makes your lenses feel much heavier if you hold the camera with 1 hand. Feels much better on a DSLR with the EF lenses, actually feels lighter vs the negative leverage on the adapted lenses. 

Haven't powered the thing on yet, waiting on batteries to charge. 

[Django]

I strongly advise the vertical grip if you're having trouble with ergos, as your right hand sits lower and your thumb rests exactly where it should in between AF-On & touch bar.

Grip also comes with a USB-C PCU.

[Snowbro]

Yeah, the 1D cameras fit my hand perfectly. I just was hoping this one would be close to a 5D so I didnt need a grip. Doesnt it weigh the same as a 5D when you and a grip? Somewhat defeats the lighter weight benefit of mirrorless lol. I dont care too much, I always carry the 1d around one handed, no strap & that weighs about 5.5lbs with a lens 

[johnnyd]

6 hours ago, androidlad said:

Latest leak:

10.1MP GS High-Sensitivity Full Frame Sensor (without IBIS)
4K/12Bit/30fps, 4K/10Bit/60fps & 2K/10Bit/180fps XF-RAW (AVC-Bayer)
Dual Pixel CMOS AF
DIGIC8+ DV Processor
ISO100-160000 (50-500000)
20fps 14Bit AE/AF Electronic Shutter Continuous Shooting

RF Mount !

Seems like a Cinema EOS/Mirrorless hybrid.

So no source for this? Searched, but couldn't find any rumors with anything even close to this.. not surprised though ??

[Snowbro]

They needed to at least add an iso button, touchbar is worthless and you have to hold down a reassigned button, then change the top dial at the same time. The camera literally is a hand cramp machine. They need the wheel dial and iso button back. I'm either going to throw this thing in the toilet or give it to my wife, haven't decided yet. 

[Snowbro]

The level 1 digital IS actually is really nice. Barely crops in and does a great job. It looks natural too, unlike most ibis or lens is

[Yurolov]

47 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

The level 1 digital IS actually is really nice. Barely crops in and does a great job. It looks natural too, unlike most ibis or lens is

Post some vids when you get a chance.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, Snowbro said:

They needed to at least add an iso button

You can assign an ISO button to a function button.

It's just not called ISO in the canon menus LOL.

It is "Dial-Func"

I've assigned that to M-Fn button next to shutter release and now in one press I can have the ISOs on screen and choose with physical jog dial on top of camera.

[kaylee]

13 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

M-Fn button

after your last write up i legit read that as a dirty word ?

[Snowbro]

Tested the eos r vs the 1dx ii off my deck at night. No surprise, the 30mp didn't do as well, but it did better than I thought, except for one area which I found odd. (exact same settings, profile, lens etc)

I wouldn't use the eos r past 8,000 iso for anything, the 1dx ii I wouldn't use past 16,000. 8k on the r looked slightly worse than the 1dx ii at 16k, but they looked fairly close.

I noticed some x axis noise banding on the eos r between iso 1000 and 4000 which I thought was odd. There is a tiny bit on the 1dx in that range, but about 20% of what I saw on the R. I only saw it against a more uniform surface so it probably won't be a big deal. It's funny, I haven't seen any banding in the test photos I did, even when pushed to the unrealistic 5 stops (slight bit of color induction). The RAW seem'd to hold more contrast and have more pleasing noise in lifted shadows than the CR3. I hadn't used it before, just read that people think its the same quality, I think they are pretty close though. There was an interesting pattern when you lifted the shadows a lot in the CR3 & zoomed in to 100%. 

I have my mf'r button set to switch between c1,c2,c3 right now, i will look to see if i can get a button to adjust after single click. I set one earlier to left & right side in the custom button to be iso, but it only worked if I held the button and turned the dial idk. 

Oh Yeah: I have noticed sometimes in video & photo mode, the AF box freezes. You can't move it for up to 8 seconds randomly; I have no idea what that is about. I will have to use it more and try to see what is going on. I feel like it is a processor/ram issue, hopefully they know about it and fix it with firmware. 

[Snowbro]

Update after testing photos indoors with artificial lighting: Photo wise, I didn't see that much banding outside with natural light (just colors introducing); I did see a ton indoors, it was pretty noticeable at just +.90 exposure.

[leobauberger]

I'm really insecure what camera I will buy, damn. I'm inclined to the X-T3, it have almost all the checkboxes I'm looking for, and for almost the same price of the eos r I will bring an atomos ninja v together with perfect codecs, falsecolor, no recording limit and better and cheaper media (in the long term) using SSDs.

But then...it's Fuji and I never used any Fuji before.  I have some legacy glass from canon and I'm used to their DPAF (and actually helps a lot when you do 1 men crew jobs), there's even the variable nd adaptor that really looks good in paper. The price of canon products tend to stick a lot more too, so I believe I can resell the eos r easily then the X-T3 in the future.

Damn Canon why you make things harder than needed. 

[gelaxstudio]

Max Yurye had upload a side by side IQ comparison video of X-T3 vs A7III vs EOS R vs Z7 vs Pocket 4K ，and the 4K  on eos r looks like 1080p upscaled，and the 1080p looks like 720p upscaled，any brand which still using line-skipping 1080P，now just canon ，like what they did  10 years ago

And  I know some people can  still call it cinematic  looks

 

 

[hijodeibn]

1 hour ago, gelaxstudio said:

Max Yurye had upload a side by side IQ comparison video of X-T3 vs A7III vs EOS R vs Z7 vs Pocket 4K ，and the 4K  on eos r looks like 1080p upscaled，and the 1080p looks like 720p upscaled，any brand which still using line-skipping 1080P，now just canon ，like what they did  10 years ago

And  I know some people can  still call it cinematic  looks

 

 

hahaha....another noob that think Cinematic means hard digital sharpness.....

Just copying here the answer Andrew provided in other topic which apply 100% to you:

-------------------------------------------

Pixel peeping is alive and well I see!

Nikon Z7 is fine. It is a miracle in full frame from 8.2K down to 4K. Very nice detail level. Very good dynamic range and colour, which Max's test doesn't even touch on.

Z7 in APS-C is similar but less aliasing / stair stepping - but we are talking 4K here, so at normal viewing distances you don't even see the aliasing in full frame mode, let alone in the oversampled Super 35 mode.

The EOS R is soft. So what. It's 4K. You have more detail than you'll ever need unless cropping 4x into the image.

You wanna know why I don't do tests like this very much anymore?

1. Nobody views your film or music video at 400% crop. The absolute sharpness level in 4K means JACK SHIT. What you want is a soft stable cinematic image - not hard digital sharpness. In fact it's an *advantage* to have a softer image for YouTube, when the player is scaling it down to fit any number of screen resolutions - especially a 1080p screen. It looks more natural when people view it downscaled or even on a 4K TV from normal viewing distances. In the first case the downscaling works badly with a digitally sharper, harder image vs a softer, more cinematic one. In the second case the natural downscaling from the human eye at a longer viewing distance makes a less hard 4K image at 1:1 look more natural and less fatiguing than a "harder" image which shows more emphasised detail. We have plenty enough detail in 4K as it is, even on the EOS R and to overemphasise it, like in Max's video, is a BAD THING.

2. The test by Max claims to be about image quality when he's only testing one small aspect of it and not even very well. He's actually looking 90% at the sharpening levels in the menus, rather than outright performance of the image. All the cameras apply a different level of sharpening to bring out extra detail. You can dial it down or up. So what? How natural and cinematic does that fine detail look to the real viewer? That is the real question.

3. Max's video tests just one aspect of the camera and seems to imply it's 90% of what makes a good image. A wide shot of a building with constantly shifting light at dusk so that not even the lighting conditions are matched on each comparison shot. It says nothing of colour, dynamic range, skin-tones, lenses, sensor size, rolling shutter, motion cadence, codec performance, macro blocking, mud, compression, grading, bit-depth, LOG profile performance and  how easy or not it is to grade. These are the things that determine the final result. These are the important things and not ONE in isolation but ALL together.

Go back and do a proper test Max that takes you longer than half an hour... But no, he's got subscriber numbers and viewers to chase so it must be done quick!

 

 

On 10/24/2018 at 8:23 AM, leobauberger said:

I'm really insecure what camera I will buy, damn. I'm inclined to the X-T3, it have almost all the checkboxes I'm looking for, and for almost the same price of the eos r I will bring an atomos ninja v together with perfect codecs, falsecolor, no recording limit and better and cheaper media (in the long term) using SSDs.

But then...it's Fuji and I never used any Fuji before.  I have some legacy glass from canon and I'm used to their DPAF (and actually helps a lot when you do 1 men crew jobs), there's even the variable nd adaptor that really looks good in paper. The price of canon products tend to stick a lot more too, so I believe I can resell the eos r easily then the X-T3 in the future.

Damn Canon why you make things harder than needed. 

First check very carefully the redish.... added from the X-T3 specially in skin tones, and see if that is acceptable for your footage.

I know the feeling, the Canon R is the camera I want but the price is really too much....it's a hard choice!!!

[Mattias Burling]

Just came back from a video shoot with the EOS-R. Mainly handeld, lots of interviews on the go, mixed indor lighting, dim light but also outside during sunset.

It was just like using a 6Dmkii. In other words a joy. Super easy but with some added perks like C-log (for a few shots), peaking, nicer layout of the buttons and wheels (imo) and of course a nicer HD image. The digital IS was awesome as always. Used it for everything.

Hopefully I can share some footage later on, not allowed at this point. But when reviewing a few shots captured inside a stable with nasty fluorescent lights. My rather soft 28mm f1.8. Ungraded from the neutral picture profile. My commet is: pure class.

[hijodeibn]

34 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Just came back from a video shoot with the EOS-R. Mainly handeld, lots of interviews on the go, mixed indor lighting, dim light but also outside during sunset.

It was just like using a 6Dmkii. In other words a joy. Super easy but with some added perks like C-log (for a few shots), peaking, nicer layout of the buttons and wheels (imo) and of course a nicer HD image. The digital IS was awesome as always. Used it for everything.

Hopefully I can share some footage later on, not allowed at this point. But when reviewing a few shots captured inside a stable with nasty fluorescent lights. My rather soft 28mm f1.8. Ungraded from the neutral picture profile. My commet is: pure class.

Great news Mattias!!!....hope sooner than later you can share some footage, ideally graded, so the noobs can really understand what this tool can do in the hands of an expert....

[leobauberger]

5 hours ago, hijodeibn said:

 

First check very carefully the redish.... added from the X-T3 specially in skin tones, and see if that is acceptable for your footage.

I know the feeling, the Canon R is the camera I want but the price is really too much....it's a hard choice!!!

It is, really, a ONE FREAKING HARD choice, lol.
Color wise, it's just not Canon. right? But...for all the other options (gh5s, a7iii), is the most comfortable one to pair.

There are a lot of things to put in the balance from each one and actually I'm having problem to balance the weight of each thing.
 From Canon I have the advantage to have some good glass already, some minor detail like same battery (actually how's the battery performance in the eos r?) and easier worflow using my 80d as the camera that will remain here. AF, flipscreen and all those tools that I'm used too when I need. Like, I barely use AF but when I'm doing a one man job it really save your ass and you can 'relly' on that, rather than the not to close X-T3 that is good, but it's enough?
From what I'm seeing too, the fuji lens lineup isn't too great quality wise, I don't know. Maybe it's just that feeling that Fuji NEVER was a choice and it's probably their second real video oriented camera and you just don't have the guts to jump in the entire system.
Cameras are evolving really quickly and I have the feeling that we are changing the bodies more often than before, so, the price for the sell an used equipment, thinking about investment retain, is something is in my mind a lot, because quite frankly, we know that EOS R is just a sample for the pro body to come. 
But then again, X-T3 too. And which of the two will retain its value for longer? Probably I already know the answer.
 

[hijodeibn]

1 hour ago, leobauberger said:

It is, really, a ONE FREAKING HARD choice, lol.
Color wise, it's just not Canon. right? But...for all the other options (gh5s, a7iii), is the most comfortable one to pair.

There are a lot of things to put in the balance from each one and actually I'm having problem to balance the weight of each thing.
 From Canon I have the advantage to have some good glass already, some minor detail like same battery (actually how's the battery performance in the eos r?) and easier worflow using my 80d as the camera that will remain here. AF, flipscreen and all those tools that I'm used too when I need. Like, I barely use AF but when I'm doing a one man job it really save your ass and you can 'relly' on that, rather than the not to close X-T3 that is good, but it's enough?
From what I'm seeing too, the fuji lens lineup isn't too great quality wise, I don't know. Maybe it's just that feeling that Fuji NEVER was a choice and it's probably their second real video oriented camera and you just don't have the guts to jump in the entire system.
Cameras are evolving really quickly and I have the feeling that we are changing the bodies more often than before, so, the price for the sell an used equipment, thinking about investment retain, is something is in my mind a lot, because quite frankly, we know that EOS R is just a sample for the pro body to come. 
But then again, X-T3 too. And which of the two will retain its value for longer? Probably I already know the answer.
 

If you already have good glass for the Canon R then I think your choice is done, changing system and later probably have to come back is the worst option, also remember, depreciation of Canon cameras is really marginal, you still can see the 5D mark iii around 1,200 - 1,500 USD, which is incredible, also if ML crack together with Andrew the Canon R, you instantly get a more powerfull camera at $0 cost....