Top 6 videos on EOS R with combined 2 million views and not a single mention of the rolling shutter in 4K

[androidlad]

1 minute ago, Danyyyel said:

What, so you would be ok with that level of RS if it had 4k 60p... That's crazy, I would prefer an A73 or Nikon z6/7 to that anyday, at least 90% of my shot are not slowmotion and this thing would need to be static on stick to be anything usable.

Actually, 60P forces the camera's to have lower RS, because 1000ms/60=16.7ms

[Andrew Reid]

Punk is dead!!

[Danyyyel]

2 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Actually, 60P forces the camera's to have lower RS, because 1000ms/60=16.7ms

And then you have to discard conform all your footage, what about the doubling or tripling of the amount of data etc.

[androidlad]

Just now, Danyyyel said:

And then you have to discard conform all your footage, what about the doubling or tripling of the amount of data etc.

Data-rate can be the same, on X-T3 you can choose 100Mb/s for 4K 24p to 60p.

[Andrew Reid]

Don't really see your point Dan. Conforming footage in post has nothing to do with the speed of the sensor.

[Dan Sherman]

10 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Actually, 60P forces the camera's to have lower RS, because 1000ms/60=16.7ms

in regards to RS/"motion blur" fps means nothing.   For video RS is going to be driven primary by shutter speed/angle, and to a lesser extent how fast the sensor read time is. 

[Andrew Reid]

2 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

in regards to RS fps means nothing.   For video RS is going to be driven primary by shutter speed/angle, and to a lesser extent how fast the sensor read time is. 

Wow there is a lot of misunderstandings around this issue I see.

Rolling shutter is not driven by shutter speed.

It is 100% how fast the sensor can read out the image line by line, top to bottom of the frame.

The shutter speed can be 1/100 or 1/1000 and the rolling shutter speed will be identical as will amount of distortion as the subject moves or the camera moves. The only difference is you will have less motion blur on the slower shutter speed shot.

[Dan Sherman]

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Wow there is a lot of misunderstandings around this issue I see.

Rolling shutter is not driven by shutter speed.

It is 100% how fast the sensor can read out the image line by line, top to bottom of the frame.

The shutter speed can be 1/100 or 1/1000 and the rolling shutter speed will be identical as will amount of distortion as the subject moves or the camera moves. The only difference is you will have less motion blur on the slower shutter speed shot.

you responded before i could update my post.

imo, your average videographer barely knows the difference between motion blur and RS.  

[androidlad]

4 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

in regards to RS/"motion blur" fps means nothing.   For video RS is going to be driven primary by shutter speed/angle, and to a lesser extent how fast the sensor read time is. 

fps means a lot.

In order to get 60 frame per second (which is 1000 millisecond), the sensor readout/rolling shutter has to be minimum 16.7ms per frame (1000ms/60).

X-T3 4K 60P rolling shutter is exactly 16ms to meet the bare minimum.

For EOS R's 4K 30P cap, 33ms is the bare minimum.

[Danyyyel]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Don't really see your point Dan. Conforming footage in post has nothing to do with the speed of the sensor.

My point is that someone said that for him a camera is DOA in 2018 if it doesn't have 4k 60p and that he doesn't care that much about RS. I find it very stupid to post something like that when the subject of this post is about how bad the RS of the Canon EOS R is. When I point it out, someone tell me that RS will be better at 60p, which can be right but does not excuse a 2018 camera with that bad of RS.

[seattledv]

3 hours ago, ajay said:

I think most of us have been around the block enough times that we take these reviews with a grain of salt. 

Probably true for most consumers, but all of these new camera releases seem to have so much hype surrounding them that it’s really hard to separate facts from hyperbole. Do I really need to know how well a new camera performs in Hawaii or Las Vegas under manufacturer controlled conditions? In addition to using exotic locales, professional models and hand-picked reviewers, manufacturer’s often bundle incentives for their new products to boost pre-orders. If I had watched just about any of these YouTube reviewers and pre-ordered an EOS R without knowing it had an unbelievable rolling shutter issue, I’d be angry—angry at the reviewers, angry at the manufacturer and angry at myself for being so easily duped. If you can’t trust the reviews and can’t trust the manufacturer then the pre-order option starts to look pretty dicey. Deceptive marketing whether intentional or not is not good for promoting new camera sales, creating manufacturer loyalty or building a YouTube subscriber base. When you can’t trust marketing  information and the reviews presented on the internet, then whatever gear you currently have starts to look better and better. Just forget about watching reviews or buying any new camera...at least until you’ve tried it yourself with a rental or a retailer that has a generous return policy. 

[Dan Sherman]

1 minute ago, androidlad said:

fps means a lot.

In order to get 60 frame per second (which is 1000 millisecond), the sensor readout/rolling shutter has to be minimum 16.7ms per frame (1000ms/60).

X-T3 4K 60P rolling shutter is exactly 16ms to meet the bare minimum.

For EOS R's 4K 30P cap, 33ms is the bare minimum.

who the hell shoots 60p at 1/60th?

last time I checked you wanted to be shooting at 1/125th, unless you wanted to deviate from the 180 degree rule for artistic reasons.

[Andrew Reid]

2 minutes ago, androidlad said:

fps means a lot.

In order to get 60 frame per second (which is 1000 millisecond), the sensor readout/rolling shutter has to be minimum 16.7ms per frame (1000ms/60).

X-T3 4K 60P rolling shutter is exactly 16ms to meet the bare minimum.

For EOS R's 4K 30P cap, 33ms is the bare minimum.

This is correct.

The only thing that excuses a front-side illuminated 30ms slow CMOS in 2018 is if Canon is doing something special with the readout that slows it down, in order to improve colour or overall image quality. I just think they are using an old sensor technology to increase the yield at the factory and the profit margin on the shop floor.

[androidlad]

1 minute ago, Dan Sherman said:

who the hell shoots 60p at 1/60th?

last time I checked you wanted to be shooting at 1/125th, unless you wanted to deviate from the 180 degree rule for artistic reasons.

We are talking about sensor readout, not shutter speed.

[Andrew Reid]

8 minutes ago, seattledv said:

Probably true for most consumers, but all of these new camera releases seem to have so much hype surrounding them that it’s really hard to separate facts from hyperbole. Do I really need to know how well a new camera performs in Hawaii or Las Vegas under manufacturer controlled conditions? In addition to using exotic locales, professional models and hand-picked reviewers, manufacturer’s often bundle incentives for their new products to boost pre-orders. If I had watched just about any of these YouTube reviewers and pre-ordered an EOS R without knowing it had an unbelievable rolling shutter issue, I’d be angry—angry at the reviewers, angry at the manufacturer and angry at myself for being so easily duped. If you can’t trust the reviews and can’t trust the manufacturer then the pre-order option starts to look pretty dicey. Deceptive marketing whether intentional or not is not good for promoting new camera sales, creating manufacturer loyalty or building a YouTube subscriber base. When you can’t trust marketing  information and the reviews presented on the internet, then whatever gear you currently have starts to look better and better. Just forget about watching reviews or buying any new camera...at least until you’ve tried it yourself with a rental or a retailer that has a generous return policy. 

Glad we can get back on topic as that's the crux of it for me. Hand picking a squad of reviewers, vetting them first, excluding the ones like me who will not do a good marketing job if it has issues like rolling shutter, then populating everything they shoot with as much eye candy as possible, from palm trees to half naked women, before sending them home with a free camera, is borderline anti-FTC rules and creates an alternative universe online driven by money and bullshit, divorced from reality and facts.

I also find that most of these most high profile YouTube 'stars' in the camera world are best buddies behind the scene, because they all meet regularly at events like these, so it is really hard for one of them to stand up from the group and say "hey, you idiot, this is wrong".

Jordan would never criticise Caleb or Max or Kai.

Caleb would never say boo to a goose.

Kai is too busy trying to be Jeremy Clarkson.

And Fro is too busy with his hair to even know what rolling shutter is!!

[eleison]

I don't think the EOS R is selling that well.  When camera companies give youtubers tickets to a event that has blow and women of ill repute in the back, you know having an unbiased review is the farthest thing from that person's mind.  Well, except for Tony Northrup -- I'm still not certain which way he bats even though he is "married".

[Andrew Reid]

LOL. OK let's refrain from personal attacks unless you are joking. I am not sure which way he bats when it comes to Sony vs Canon that's for sure. Is it just to whoever is being nicest to him via email at any given moment?

[Dan Sherman]

1 minute ago, androidlad said:

We are talking about sensor readout, not shutter speed.

never mind, not worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mattias Burling]

Sony did the same thing with the launch of the A7iii, free trips and boose fur alles. Ans it still seems to sell well. I honestly don't think consumers care ir even notice. People are usually genuinely surprised when I tell them there is a camera community and reviewers.

[eleison]

30 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

LOL. OK let's refrain from personal attacks unless you are joking. I am not sure which way he bats when it comes to Sony vs Canon that's for sure. Is it just to whoever is being nicest to him via email at any given moment?

It's all in jest, unless Tony sees this thread then I'm calling him out.  If he truly is "married", where's the pda?  If they are a couple, they have to be one of the most clinical couples I've ever seen irl or on YouTube.  You listening, Tony!!?  Wheres the pda?  hahhahhahah.

The problem with online reviews is that everyone is human.  Humans have a tendency to form groups and alliances.  If you see someone enough times they become familiar (conferences, meet and greets, etc.), and you will be friendly to each other.  You become friendly to the fellow YouTuber, the fellow Sony marketing person, etc.  It's hard to put down someone's product, or work; when you know the person.  That's life.

 

The only people who can truly be objective (imho) are those who are anti-social and are willing to alienate other people.  Telling the truth is hard.  I'm sure the montage of popular YouTubers featured this article isn't going to make Andrew any more popular.  I'm not saying Andrew is anti-social or anything.  But he has not engendered himself to the "camera reviewer mafia".  No booze and women for him, but we all know he's a little more truthful.