Top 6 videos on EOS R with combined 2 million views and not a single mention of the rolling shutter in 4K

[hmcindie]

1 hour ago, Mako Sports said:

A6300 is also doing 6K full sensor readout hence its rolling shutter issues though

Though it's only doing APS-C. Exactly like the EOS R is. It looks just as bad. To be honest, these are not 4k cams (not the a6300 / a6500 or the EOS R) if you shoot anything that moves (handheld etc). When I shot with the 5d mk IV I mostly used it's 1080p mode too and occasionally tried the 4k.

[Castorp]

Not giving Angry Photographer any more views. It’s not fair to call him Trump because he is not manipulative in that way. But I can’t stand how he uses his channel to pour out unfiltered affect. There is no editorial labour put in whatsoever, just long rant sessions that are constantly contradicting each other. It reminds me of going into a bar and hearing bitter old men ranting about whichever subject without a trace of criticality, just a means to vent ones own frustrations. The subject could be Muslims, the EU or, in his case, some camera. The subject is just a place to project and vent frustration. That such drivel is tolerated is why politics is like a South Park episode at the moment. 

Rant over 

[Yurolov]

What focal length was used for the RS test

[Pedro]

Ken posts almost every day. Many of his content is about lenses, cameras, and magnetism ... anyway there are also plenty of videos where he trashes other youtube channels such as Tony and Chelsea, Jason photography (who filed a lawsuit against him ?@) , Jared Polin, DPreview, Petapixel and also camera fanboys in general.

@ Yurolov -50mm

[hmcindie]

20 hours ago, androidlad said:

It was tested a while ago, 30.45ms rolling shutter in 4K.

 

a6300 has a 39ms RS measured by Samuel H at dvxuser, he also measured the A7s and the NX1 at 30ms in 4k.

You guys sure that the EOS R looks worse than them?

[tweak]

22 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Ken posts almost every day. Many of his content is about lenses, cameras, and magnetism ... anyway there are also plenty of videos where he trashes other youtube channels such as Tony and Chelsea, Jason photography (who filed a lawsuit against him ?@) , Jared Polin, DPreview, Petapixel and also camera fanboys in general.

@ Yurolov -50mm

Sounds like someone I should follow, the videos those people make are mostly absolute tripe.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

What focal length was used for the RS test

50mm.

[Dan Sherman]

3 hours ago, norliss said:

 All these vids on YouTube are all well and good but too many of them are beholden to the manufacturers.

I think it's more like beholden to the views/likes of the worlds Lemmings.

 

Theoria comes off as an a-hole who feels the need to take a shot at whoever is better off then he is. The whole stick it to the man BS if you know what I mean. Imo, the only thing he is good at is presenting/reviewing gear that's rarely talked about, like tripods.

[jonpais]

Fake news.

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not a single mention of the rolling shutter in 4K.

Kai doesn't go hysterical over it because he probably wasn't expecting any better than Canon's 5D Mark IV, but he clearly expresses his disappointment.

Not only does he mention the rolling shutter, he shows us an example of it.

Will this come as a shocker to Canon shooters switching over from their DSLRs? I highly doubt it.

The rolling shutter on the Nikon Z7 is worse than Sony's a7R III, but I don't see anybody shouting to the heavens about that camera either.

You don't even mention rolling shutter in your preliminary look at the Z7.

[Dan Sherman]

38 minutes ago, jonpais said:

You don't even mention rolling shutter in your review of the Z7.

 

Ouch, feel the burn!

[Jimmy]

It's a good point... I understand andrew's passion about Canon, but if he wants to position himself as the voice of truth, then he has to put that same passion towards the faults and virtues of all cameras.

[jonpais]

The point was not lost on Kai's viewers, either. One writes in the comments section:

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its crazy how my gh5 is still the best video camera after all this time. that rolling shutter makes it a no go for me.

and another says:

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1.7x crop in 4k mode, horrible rolling shutter, 1x card slot. ¿ Overheating ?, I better stay with my Sony a7rii.

TBH, not sure what he means by overheating.  

and another:

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[...] PROFESSIONAL filmmakers will NOT lap this up. We don't use still cameras for serious filmmaking. As you show here, the rolling shutter is unbelievable even in normal HD, not to mention 4k. As a still camera its marvelous. I just cannot stop laughing when people think the video is acceptable, when it is orders of magnitude below a student film.

and another:

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Holy rolling shutter cow.

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An Alice in Wonderland Space "Odd"yssey shooting dungeon...WFT? Cropped 4K video...WTF? Heavy Rolling shutter...WFT? Humongoid Lenses...WFT? No in-camera stabilization...WFT? Fair low-light performance...WFT? Hey, uh, Canon...WTF, man??

 

[Andrew Reid]

The earliest initial impression I had of the EOS R was the rolling shutter. The earliest impressions I had of the Z7 was that it was nicer than my Sony A7R III in the hand, and in terms of the image, and the rolling shutter didn't stand out as anything abnormal, unlike on the EOS R. It just wasn't an issue for me. Ditto on the D850. It wasn't immediately obvious from the get go, the minute I opened the box.

So we're 10 minutes into Kai's video, out of 13 minutes and yes it seems there's a 2 second mention. So I should probably give him the benefit of the doubt. But when I watched it the first time just after release as a subscriber to his channel, I am pretty sure it wasn't in. There are such a thing as ninja edits and re-uploads. But let's be clear, I've nothing personal with Kai, he could be a nice guy, but he doesn't help our cause as customers - he doesn't give the problem any gravitas. He's not even a proper reviewer. He's an entertainer. He turns it into a positive in those few seconds of a mention, which are just soft pawing out claims to the effect of the 1080p "has an advantage" because it has less rolling shutter than 4K, 'just like that wonderful best selling 5D IV you all bought'. That's how it comes across to me. It may technically be a 'mention of rolling shutter' but it's not a mention in the sense I meant it in my article - a mention of just how BAD the rolling shutter is on this camera. He just sweeps it under the rug in less than 5 seconds in a 13 minute video and doesn't really criticise it. That's the *whole point* I was making in the article - none of them mentioned the rolling shutter in terms of it being amongst the worst on the market in 2018 and immediately OBVIOUS straight out of the box in 4K.

So whilst @jonpais is calling EOSHD "fake news" and telling me how to run the site, perhaps he should realise one thing. I am a bit disappointed by his remarks. All the squabbling on the forums over the past few months from him and the Sony fanboyism in every subject, treating some threads like his own private inbox for chats and arguments, all leave a bitter taste for me because he's a long-time member. He seems to have gone from productive posting in the early days of the forum about Panasonic, up through being rewarded by being promoted to a mod, back down to being a non-mod due to bad behaviour, and now he's cruising for a bruising or even a ban. I just find that incredibly self destructive.

[Mattias Burling]

My thoughts* on why it haven't been mentioned as much as some might have expected.

Firstly because almost no one cares. Because of the second reason.

I think its something thats easy to forget simply because we are so used to it. After owning the BMPC4K and D16 with global shutters I see it a bit like, "what else is new". I mean its not like my X-H1 is miles better, its there and I work around it, like I do with all still cameras.

Its like the A7iii not having a top display. In my mind, at that price point, its a serious WTF!!! But I'm not upset reviewers aren't mentioning it. Because it is what it is. It doesn't really need pointing out. 

Battery life is another example. Some mirrorless are even praised for having good battery life. When in reality, compared to a DSLR, its absolute sh.t. But now days it has to be reeally bad to get noticed. Aliasing as well.

*Just my thoughts. Not defending rolling shutter. Not paid by Canon. Never been to Hawaii.

[Andrew Reid]

I am not really used to rolling shutter any more, because all my recent cameras have been sub 20ms. The GH5, GH5S, E-M1 II, X-H1, A7 III and finally to X-T3 - so coming off the back of those, it's like going back to an A6300 - so seems more shocking. Yes, it's possible to get used to it.

The other thing is, you don't really expect it at 50mm! But then you realise because of the nearly 2x crop it is more like a 90mm, which exaggerates the rolling shutter even more compared to a 50mm at full frame field of view.

If you use a wider lens on the EOS R, it is a work-around for the rolling shutter... Shooting at 10mm or 18mm for example, you will notice it less.

[Drew Allegre]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The earliest initial impression I had of the EOS R was the rolling shutter. The earliest impressions I had of the Z7 was that it was nicer than my Sony A7R III in the hand, and in terms of the image, and the rolling shutter didn't stand out as anything abnormal, unlike on the EOS R. It just wasn't an issue for me. Ditto on the D850. It wasn't immediately obvious from the get go, the minute I opened the box.

So we're 10 minutes into Kai's video, out of 13 minutes and yes it seems there's a 2 second mention. So I should probably give him the benefit of the doubt. But when I watched it the first time just after release as a subscriber to his channel, I am pretty sure it wasn't in. There are such a thing as ninja edits and re-uploads. But let's be clear, I've nothing personal with Kai, he could be a nice guy, but he doesn't help our cause as customers - he doesn't give the problem any gravitas. He's not even a proper reviewer. He's an entertainer. He turns it into a positive in those few seconds of a mention, which are just soft pawing out claims to the effect of the 1080p "has an advantage" because it has less rolling shutter than 4K, 'just like that wonderful best selling 5D IV you all bought'. That's how it comes across to me. It may technically be a 'mention of rolling shutter' but it's not a mention in the sense I meant it in my article - a mention of just how BAD the rolling shutter is on this camera. He just sweeps it under the rug in less than 5 seconds in a 13 minute video and doesn't really criticise it. That's the broad point I was making in the article - that none of them mentioned the rolling shutter being amongst the worst on the market in 2018.

So whilst @jonpais is calling EOSHD "fake news" and telling me how to run the site, perhaps he should realise one thing. I am a bit disappointed by his remarks. All the squabbling on the forums over the past few months from him and the obvious Sony endorsements in every subject, treating some threads like his own private inbox for chats and arguments, all leave a bitter taste in the mouth. As a long-time member, he seems to have gone from productive posting in the early days of the forum about Panasonic, up through being rewarded by being promoted to a mod, back down to being a non-mod due to bad behaviour, and now he's cruising for a bruising or even a ban. I just find that incredibly rude.

I've had this thought for awhile now, and I've kind of held off, because...well, it's your site and you can do and say as you please.  With this and all of the BM stuff, you come across as independent, but not necessarily objective.  It kind of begs the question, what is the value of independence without objectivity?  You and others may disagree with that assessment, but that is pretty much how I read you these days.  I'm probably not alone.  As with any media being consumed, at least part of the onus is on the consumer to filter and analyze the information.

Reveling in the praise of a guy who is a known copyright violator is not a great look either.

[Jimmy]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The earliest impressions I had of the Z7 was that it was nicer than my Sony A7R III in the hand, and in terms of the image, and the rolling shutter didn't stand out as anything abnormal, unlike on the EOS R. It just wasn't an issue for me. Ditto on the D850. It wasn't immediately obvious from the get go, the minute I opened the box.

Could that be because you subconsciously wanted to love the Nikon though? I looked a bit more in depth at the Z7 and the rolling shutter stood out like a sore thumb, absolutely as bad, if not worse than the Canon.

I'm not wading in calling you out or shouting fake news... But it is possible to overlook things when you are excited about a purchase, especially one that ticks so many boxes as the Z7.

On a side note... At least this rolling shutter is getting us prepared for the Fuji 100mpx that's going to shoot MF, no crop, at 4K/10bit

[Dan Sherman]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

So whilst @jonpais is calling EOSHD "fake news" and telling me how to run the site, perhaps he should realise one thing. I am a bit disappointed by his remarks. All the squabbling on the forums over the past few months from him and the Sony fanboyism in every subject, treating some threads like his own private inbox for chats and arguments, all leave a bitter taste for me because he's a long-time member. He seems to have gone from productive posting in the early days of the forum about Panasonic, up through being rewarded by being promoted to a mod, back down to being a non-mod due to bad behaviour, and now he's cruising for a bruising or even a ban. I just find that incredibly self destructive.

 

O please Andrew how are you any better?

Its seems almost any time you think someone has slighted you, you lash out with self destructive negative behavior. As @Drew Allegre  mentions the BM fiasco is a good example. Not to mention what I quoted above looks like nothing more than a tit for tat, attempt to make @jonpais look bad.

IMO, you deserved to be called out what amounts to a "take down" piece about other reviewers not doing a good enough job, when you yourself didn't  mention it in your initial piece/review either.

 

 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Could that be because you subconsciously wanted to love the Nikon though? I looked a bit more in depth at the Z7 and the rolling shutter stood out like a sore thumb, absolutely as bad, if not worse than the Canon.

Bullshit. It isn't.

I think the only thing subconscious in loving a brand is when you love a brand and project the behaviour it at other people, who you expect to also be a brand whore. Z7 does full frame 4K from a 46MP sensor and the image is amazing so even if it had an unknown Norwegian logo featuring a dead moose, I'd still do the same thing.

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On a side note... At least this rolling shutter is getting us prepared for the Fuji 100mpx that's going to shoot MF, no crop, at 4K/10bit

What a spoilt comment!! In the pipeline is a 100 megapixel medium format camera and all you can do is pre-empt poor rolling shutter performance. You know absolutely nothing about that sensor or camera. It isn't even finished.

1 hour ago, Dan Sherman said:

O please Andrew how are you any better?

I don't really want to be drawn by your trolling. I don't need to defend myself. It's my house and I can pick and choose who I invite into the community and who I consider bad for it, who should go. Let's look at your account for example. You aren't offering anything apart from a snide anti-Andrew Reid sentiment, in my own living room and on my phone.

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IMO, you deserved to be called out what amounts to a "take down" piece about other reviewers not doing a good enough job, when you yourself didn't  mention it in your initial piece/review either.

You're spinning things and you know you are. This site is about learning new information. When I mentioned the rolling shutter within a day of getting my EOS R. you should thank me for it. You're better informed now, thanks to me (not that you show any gratitude whatsoever). The other article about a completely different camera, that isn't even a review, with rolling shutter that isn't problematic, does not contain a rolling shutter mention - GO FIGURE SHERLOCK!

[Jimmy]

42 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

What a spoilt comment!! In the pipeline is a 100 megapixel medium format camera and all you can do is pre-empt poor rolling shutter performance. You know absolutely nothing about that sensor or camera. It isn't even finished.

It was clearly a tongue in cheek joke ffs.

I'll leave you to it... wasn't attacking you in the slightest. 

I like this forum... you've done a good job... but you have seriously thin skin... it is obvious why manufacturers don't reach out to you and it's nothing to do with "telling the truth"... you're just way too erratic and emotional.

This is not good in 4k. Same as canon