Are cameras without IBIS and AF useless for shooting video in 2018?

[A_Urquhart]

I for one don't think so but let's discuss.

For narrative work, I still think traditional rigging like a tripod, slider or even a gimbal are the best ways to get 'cinematic' (for lack of a better word) shots.

For run and gun, I think a good monopod (or even well balanced shoulder rig) gives better results than IBIS in most situations and are far more versatile. For example , you can still change a camera setting with one hand and hold the camera steady with the other if using a monopod. If handheld, taking one hand off the camera to use the touch screen or press a button means you only have one point of contact (your right hand) and gives shoddy looking footage even with IBIS on. 

Thoughts?

[Andrew Reid]

Your Pocket 4K advertising is getting more subliminal. Well done.

[A_Urquhart]

You have it wrong Andrew. How would you like to prove it so we can move on?

Just to clarify, I started this topic and am asking this question because in another thread it was suggested by someone that in this day and age, a camera without IBIS and AF is useless out of the box.

[Andrew Reid]

I am only joking.

I quite agree with you actually. IBIS is a bit lazy, and it doesn't give as cinematic results as proper rigging or a tripod. But it's a lot more fun for run & gun narrative, a lot quicker, stealthier and a lot easier.

As for AF, it depends on how well it works. Dual Pixel AF can be very cinematic. Anything that darts around or hunts is out. It depends on the shot as well, as whether or not you track focus on something depends on the story and mood of the scene.

[A_Urquhart]

Just now, Andrew Reid said:

I am only joking.

I quite agree with you actually. IBIS is a bit lazy, and it doesn't give as cinematic results as proper rigging or a tripod. But it's a lot more fun and a lot easier.

As for AF, it depends on how well it works. Dual Pixel AF can be very cinematic. Anything that darts around or hunts is out. It depends on the shot as well, as whether or not you track focus on something depends on the story and mood of the scene.

True. AF can be good if the transition is super smooth and you use tap to focus to manually select the focus points. 

Without tap to focus, AF isn't smart enough to know which part of the image you want to focus on so the smoothness becomes irrelevant unless you are face tracking one face wihich is where AF shines.

[dantheman]

For most vloggers they are. 

[A_Urquhart]

1 minute ago, dantheman said:

For most vloggers they are. 

I agree.

[Kisaha]

A few months ago, I was shooting with a GH5, and when I asked the -60 years old, mind you - director to set a tripod first, he was really surprised, and didn't like the delay at all!

Manual focus is still the best way to control focus and express a lot of notions and emotions. Second best? Touch focus.

I am a bit annoyed when people suddenly can't shoot without IBIS/C-AF and less than 200.00ISO cameras.

[A_Urquhart]

16 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

A few months ago, I was shooting with a GH5, and when I asked the -60 years old, mind you - director to set a tripod first, he was really surprised, and didn't like the delay at all!

Manual focus is still the best way to control focus and express a lot of notions and emotions. Second best? Touch focus.

I am a bit annoyed when people suddenly can't shoot without IBIS/C-AF and less than 200.00ISO cameras.

I'd highly recommend taking a monopod with you if you shoot with that same director again. While it doesn't completely replace a tripod, for Run n Gun shoots with small cameras, I am absolutely loving my monopod. Just make sure it has the three small feet at the end as these are super versatile.I'm really surprised more people don't use them. They take a third of the time to set up, having to only undo one set of latches instead of three and easy to carry being far lighter than any tripod. For shooting talking heads too, they are pretty much just as steady as a tripod as long as you are on fairly level ground . I wouldn't walk away walk away from the camera leaving it on a monopod but then you wouldn't do that hand held either. 

Steadicam recently released one with a foot activated lever for raising and lowering the camera. This is the ultimate in speed for me but wish it had the three feet at the bottom rather than one......also wish it was a little cheaper.

I'd put a fluid head on it too for more versatility.

[fuzzynormal]

No, IBIS and AF are not necessary.  In fact, I just got done shooting a doc and IBIS screwed me over on a few shots while using a wide angle.  My previous doc was shot on a freaking GM1 and GX8, and honestly, that doc film looks fine, imo.  

I think I'll probably shoot my next one without IBIS again.  But, making docs isn't the only thing I do.

A lot of my cheap-o corporate work makes good use of IBIS.  

Still, I can envision me shooting another film on, say, the Olympus EM5III (if/when they ever release it) and turning off the IBIS altogether.  This seems completely silly, but I gotta say, decent handheld camera work has it's own nice aesthetic.  Sometimes you need to go "classic" and leave the new-fangled stuff behind.

[thebrothersthre3]

IBIS can cause warping, and certainly is limited in the amount of stabilization it can supply. Its very very useful for certain shots though. But yeah I just sold my GH5 for the XT3 so go figure. 

Reliable auto focus can really be great, though again having a focus puller is superior if you can afford it (sometimes the AF will miss). That said for narrative work Auto focus is awesome. If the focus messes up once you can just redo the shot and most of the time it won't. I use video AF for live events though. 

 

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, A_Urquhart said:

I'd highly recommend taking a monopod with you if you shoot with that same director again. While it doesn't completely replace a tripod, for Run n Gun shoots with small cameras, I am absolutely loving my monopod. Just make sure it has the three small feet at the end as these are super versatile.I'm really surprised more people don't use them. They take a third of the time to set up, having to only undo one set of latches instead of three and easy to carry being far lighter than any tripod. For shooting talking heads too, they are pretty much just as steady as a tripod as long as you are on fairly level ground . I wouldn't walk away walk away from the camera leaving it on a monopod but then you wouldn't do that hand held either. 

Steadicam recently released one with a foot activated lever for raising and lowering the camera. This is the ultimate in speed for me but wish it had the three feet at the bottom rather than one......also wish it was a little cheaper.

I'd put a fluid head on it too for more versatility.

The foot lever is an excellent idea. I have shot with a monopod with Gitzo fluid head, works well - but the height adjustment is a pain and the yaw / side to side jitter can be a bit of an issue with monopods.

[ntblowz]

Still rocking on C100MKII at work which we use MF 95% of the time in 2018 , though soon to be C200..

For my own work AF + IBIS does help but they are not critical  (I have used gh5s on gimbal shoot dancing performer on stage fine..)

[tweak]

Yes.

[thebrothersthre3]

The title of the topic is ridiculous honestly. 

[kye]

I agree with most of the above, but the thinking is wrong.

Is super slow-motion required in 2018?  Not if you're shooting a doco, but yes if you're shooting a hair or shampoo commercial.
Is IBIS required in 2018? Not if you have the time, space and permission to take a stabiliser of some kind and set it up, yes if you're shooting in situations where a tripod/monopod/shoulder-rig/gimbal/etc isn't allowed or isn't practical.
Is 4K required in 2018? Not if you're shooting for a client that doesn't mandate it, yes if they do (eg, Netflix).
Is RAW required in 2018?  Not if the requirements of your scene will be sufficiently captured in a more compressed coded, yes if you need the flexibility or resolution in post (eg, green screening)
Is AF required in 2018? Not if you have the ability to manually focus sufficiently on set to track the subject in your images, yes if you don't.
Is extreme high ISO performance required in 2018?  Not if you are shooting a bright enough subject, or have the ability to light them sufficiently, yes if neither of these is true.

Anyone can ask the question of ANY parameter within photography and find examples of both yes and no, depending on the project.

ANY DISCUSSION OF REQUIREMENTS BEGINS WITH THE CONTENT TO BE CREATED.  CAMERAS ARE TOOLS FOR A JOB.  EACH JOB IS DIFFERENT.

Anyone who thinks they can generalise is too stupid to understand that other people shoot different projects, using different techniques, in different circumstances.

[Mako Sports]

I shoot sports zoomed in from the sidelines so having good AF is kinda a must for me. However all video fixed lens video cameras have lens stabilization and most tele lenses (70 200, 100 - 400mm etc) have built lens IS also. I also shoot on tripods and monopods so IBIS isn't a deal breaker for me.

[KnightsFan]

The question has a different meaning depending on what you already own. Personally, I'm completely satisfied with the 24p quality of my current camera. Do I need (insert any feature from @kye's list here)? Not at all! But if the primary features are covered by my current gear, it'll take an improvement in the secondary features for me to consider an upgrade.

So IBIS or AF are not required for the camera that I use in 2018, but they might be a requirement for the camera that I buy as an upgrade in 2018--if I feel the need to upgrade at all!

[A_Urquhart]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The title of the topic is ridiculous honestly. 

I agree, but it is based on a ridiculous statement which many seem to agree with. I'm just interested to know if this is the way things are going? People are too lazy to carry a tripod or monopod and too lazy to focus the camera but then use the term 'not cinematic' when judging a cameras image. Kinda strange combo to me.

Kye's points are also perfectly valid, different tools for different jobs but people in discussions expect a camera to do everything perfectly and have every feature under the sun otherwise it's not workable. 

I just think people are getting lazy. Like slowmo, it's easy to shoot nice looking slowmo so people are getting lazy and shooting everything in slowmo......

 

[webrunner5]

Hell even the Canon C700 has DPAF and face detection. Times are changing even for Cine cameras..