X-T3 vs A7III vs EOS R vs Z7 vs Pocket 4K - Video Quality Compared!

[thebrothersthre3]

3 minutes ago, noone said:

FF isn't any better at shallow DOF than M43 and equivalence doesn't say it is in theory.

It does work out that way practically though because of what is available (not because of equivalence).

The same applies with FF against MF.      MF though has far fewer options and except for some rare expensive aerial photography lenses, MF lenses are not that fast generally.

I have a lovely old FD 24 1.4 L that I miss using on my A7s while it is (still) broken.      To match the DOF on M43, I would need a 12mm f0.7 (and it would then not be an EXACT match so there would be differences).     How many 12mm f0.7 M43 lenses are there?

Same with my old FD 85 1.2 L, for equivalence purposes I would need an M43 42.5 f0.6 aprox lens and to get equivalence with a lens like a FF 50mm f0.95 lens well that one technically you can't use equivalency as you would need a M43 25mm lens slightly faster than f0.5 which is as fast as you can use in air I believe (though stand to be corrected) though a 25mm M43 f0.5 lens would be close-     Any of THOSE available?     

 

 

I would say it is better at DOF, because of lens availability. I mean when most people speak they are talking about real world practicality. 

The other thing is wider lens have more distortion. A 12mm 0.7 lens will not look the same as a 24mm 1.4, in terms of DOF, otherwise no. 

[noone]

2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I would say it is better at DOF, because of lens availability. I mean when most people speak they are talking about real world practicality. 

The other thing is wider lens have more distortion. A 12mm 0.7 lens will not look the same as a 24mm 1.4, in terms of DOF, otherwise no. 

Distortion is going to be down to each lens and how it is made for the most part (pincushion and barrel distortion)

My 17mm Canon tilt shift lens has very little distortion but I had a 28mm Vivitar that had really bad distortion.

What is called perspective distortion would look pretty much the same with a 12mm M43 lens against a 24mm FF lens (I liked my Olympus 12mm f2 but not as much as my old Canon 24mm).

 

[webrunner5]

It doesn't work that way. I will try to say it in my own words.

If you are standing next to me with your A7s with say a 50mm lens and I am next to you with say a G85. And you are focused on a tree say 50 feet ahead of us. If you hand me the 50mm off your A7s to put on my G85 it becomes a 100mm on the m4/3 camera. So to get the same FOV I have to walk backwards hell say 50 feet to get the same 50mm FOV you have on the A7s. And at the same f stop at that distance from you both cameras then will have the exact same DoF.

Or we could both stand side by side and I would be using Your 50mm lens on my G85, but you would have to have a 100mm lens now on your A7s to still have the same FOV. And standing side by side that way at the same f stop we would have the same DoF. Like they say... It's complicated lol. So the FF camera really has no better DoF than the m4/3 camera.

From Great Bustard on DPR..

"For the same perspective (subject-camera distance), AOV (angle-of-view), and aperture diameter (quotient of focal length and f-ratio), the DOF will be the same for all systems.

For example, 50mm on 4/3 has the same AOV as 100mm on FF. The aperture diameter at 50mm f/2 is 50mm / 2 = 25mm, and the aperture diameter at 100mm f/4 = 100mm / 4 = 25mm. So if a photo is taken of the same scene from the same position, the DOF will be the same (assuming the photos are displayed at the same size and viewed from the same distance with the same visual acuity)".

[noone]

I am not sure what you are disagreeing with me (or equivalence) about?      If you agree with Great Bustard, then you DO accept equivalence is real (as it is).

When things CAN be matched, there is nothing favouring FF (or any format).      It is only when things can not which is mostly because there is not an equivalent lens available that some formats may have an advantage (in terms of shallow DOF).

Most people look at lenses shooting from the same spot (from my experience anyway) and using different lenses rather than using the same lens at different places.

 

 

[Danyyyel]

On 11/2/2018 at 8:23 AM, wolf33d said:

Then people say Sony has zombie skin tones. Lol not bad Z7! 

 

On 11/2/2018 at 8:47 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

Z7 looks bright but doesn't hold much detail. 

That's why I always take people like Max test with a pinch of salt. Imean if ever you have worked with a Nikon camera you know that this is not the kind of skin tone you would get. The second thing, I am not saying that the z7 can have more detail, but you have NR settings in the z7. Did he use it, or is it set up from standard to be high, I guess we will never know. The problem is that he has never worked with a Nikon camera and his first test was already revealing that because he could have easily decrease the sharpening in camera setting before concluding that it was oversharpenned. If you don't know a camera at least ask some people for help or spend a bit more time testing it, rather than being the first and getting clicks.

[Emanuel]

He NEVER finds the worst skin tone for Sonys... ; -)

[Andrew Reid]

52 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

That's why I always take people like Max test with a pinch of salt. Imean if ever you have worked with a Nikon camera you know that this is not the kind of skin tone you would get. The second thing, I am not saying that the z7 can have more detail, but you have NR settings in the z7. Did he use it, or is it set up from standard to be high, I guess we will never know. The problem is that he has never worked with a Nikon camera and his first test was already revealing that because he could have easily decrease the sharpening in camera setting before concluding that it was oversharpenned. If you don't know a camera at least ask some people for help or spend a bit more time testing it, rather than being the first and getting clicks.

Pinch of salt. You need a bucket my friend.

Unless that guy's name is Bart or his liver has given up the ghost, there is no way the Z7 is set up correctly.

Again, in the Pocket 4K shot the man with the Apple tampon in his right ear seems off. It's under exposed.

I have not watched the video, I will just get annoyed... But can anyone tell me if Max says ANYWHERE in it, what the camera picture profile and white balance settings were, what kind of lighting was used, what the workflow was in post, what the codec settings were or what he did to the Pocket 4K to make it look about a stop darker than the EOS R at ISO 1600?

If there is anywhere near that level of basic detail in the video I'll be astonished.

I don't care if Max is a nice guy or not, he is misleading as shit with these basic cobbled together test shots.

He simply does not deserve that many subscribers on YouTube, based on the quality of his info.

But hey, that's YouTube for you!

You are Alice. I am Alice. It is always the Mad Hatters YouTube Party. It's eternally 6pm, time to be mislead into buying some shit we don't need.

[Nikkor]

oh wow that's some hostile intent there, Nikon should sue him in the US.

[Deadcode]

41 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

Again, in the Pocket 4K shot the man with the Apple tampon in his right ear seems off. It's under exposed.

I have not watched the video, I will just get annoyed... But can anyone tell me if Max says ANYWHERE in it, what the camera picture profile and white balance settings were, what kind of lighting was used, what the workflow was in post, what the codec settings were or what he did to the Pocket 4K to make it look about a stop darker than the EOS R at ISO 1600?

If there is anywhere near that level of basic detail in the video I'll be astonished.

I don't care if Max is a nice guy or not, he is misleading as shit with these basic cobbled together test shots.

He simply does not deserve that many subscribers on YouTube, based on the quality of his info.

But hey, that's YouTube for you!

He is showing every camera at their default settings.

So technically he is using the cameras just like 90% of the users do.

A lot of people complaining sony have the worst skintones. Because they dont know how to grade.

I can make the image from any camera to look good. It's just 30 sec work to fix the Z7 image in post.

And it's just few minutes work to match all of the cameras above to look the same. But we dont want that. We want to argue which one is better...

[webrunner5]

I have to admit very little footage I have seen from the Nikon Z7 looks very good to me. Sure doesn't have the old D750 look to it it that is for sure. Now I have to admit is is not that green looking. Hmm. But I think they did a great job with the body on it.

[Andrew Reid]

15 minutes ago, Deadcode said:

He is showing every camera at their default settings.

So technically he is using the cameras just like 90% of the users do.

A lot of people complaining sony have the worst skintones. Because they dont know how to grade.

I can make the image from any camera to look good. It's just 30 sec work to fix the Z7 image in post.

And it's just few minutes work to match all of the cameras above to look the same. But we dont want that. We want to argue which one is better...

My Z7 just doesn't do that to skin tones on the default settings.

You'd think I'd notice if someone was BART SIMPSON.

And anyway, 90% of people do not use the default settings. They set up the camera correctly according to the shot. Give people some credit.

[thebrothersthre3]

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

Pinch of salt. You need a bucket my friend

Unless that guy's name is Bart or his liver has given up the ghost, there is no way the Z7 is set up correctly.

Again, in the Pocket 4K shot the man with the Apple tampon in his right ear seems off. It's under exposed.

I have not watched the video, I will just get annoyed... But can anyone tell me if Max says ANYWHERE in it, what the camera picture profile and white balance settings were, what kind of lighting was used, what the workflow was in post, what the codec settings were or what he did to the Pocket 4K to make it look about a stop darker than the EOS R at ISO 1600?

If there is anywhere near that level of basic detail in the video I'll be astonished.

I don't care if Max is a nice guy or not, he is misleading as shit with these basic cobbled together test shots.

He simply does not deserve that many subscribers on YouTube, based on the quality of his info.

But hey, that's YouTube for you!

You are Alice. I am Alice. It is always the Mad Hatters YouTube Party. It's eternally 6pm, time to be mislead into buying some shit we don't need.

Doesn't the Pocket 4k just display darker at the same ISO? The fuji looked darker as well. 

[Danyyyel]

9 hours ago, Deadcode said:

He is showing every camera at their default settings.

So technically he is using the cameras just like 90% of the users do.

A lot of people complaining sony have the worst skintones. Because they dont know how to grade.

I can make the image from any camera to look good. It's just 30 sec work to fix the Z7 image in post.

And it's just few minutes work to match all of the cameras above to look the same. But we dont want that. We want to argue which one is better...

Whaaaaat, do you think that 90% of people buying a 3000+ usd camera use it at default setting. If it was a point and shoot or one of those cheap 500 usd camera, I would agree, but apart from being some rich guy just for bragging rights, most would configure their camera to some level.

[Deadcode]

2 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

Whaaaaat, do you think that 90% of people buying a 3000+ usd camera use it at default setting. If it was a point and shoot or one of those cheap 500 usd camera, I would agree, but apart from being some rich guy just for bragging rights, most would configure their camera to some level.

I'm sure most of the Z7 customers are photographers who rarely record video. And they use factory default settings.

Those who want video oriented camera, will not buy Z7, nor EosR. The customers buy these cameras for photography.

And very few of the photographers are even heard about Davinci Resolve for example.

I was in several Sony Mirrorless/A7/a6xxx Facebook groups, and even after several years the "why my slog2 is so noisy" question is STILL on the table.

My point is: we, here on EosHD forums are only the small percentage of the users who actually want to examine 100% of the capabilities from these cameras. Others just use them out of box.

[Nikkor]

57 minutes ago, Deadcode said:

I'm sure most of the Z7 customers are photographers who rarely record video. And they use factory default settings.

Those who want video oriented camera, will not buy Z7, nor EosR. The customers buy these cameras for photography.

And very few of the photographers are even heard about Davinci Resolve for example.

I was in several Sony Mirrorless/A7/a6xxx Facebook groups, and even after several years the "why my slog2 is so noisy" question is STILL on the table.

My point is: we, here on EosHD forums are only the small percentage of the users who actually want to examine 100% of the capabilities from these cameras. Others just use them out of box.

Shure man, you make no sense at all, what are you trying to argument? There has to be continuity between posts.

To get those skintones you have to purposely fuck up. Seems like we have another psycho.

[Castorp]

The photographers who buy a Z7 will change their white balance and other picture settings all the time. 

Why would videographers be any more likely to change picture settings than photographers?

 

[Shirozina]

10 minutes ago, Castorp said:

The photographers who buy a Z7 will change their white balance and other picture settings all the time. 

Why would videographers be any more likely to change picture settings than photographers?

 

Most (serious) photographers will be shooting RAW so picture settings are irrelevant (apart from WB to ensure ETTR is accurate). Videographers need to get more right in-camera as there is less room for adjustment in post production with compressed codecs

[Deadcode]

31 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Shure man, you make no sense at all, what are you trying to argument? There has to be continuity between posts.

To get those skintones you have to purposely fuck up. Seems like we have another psycho.

I fixed it for you, now you can rest in peace.

Let's get back to the original purpose of this video: noise levels...

 

[Nikkor]

2 minutes ago, Deadcode said:

I fixed it for you, now you can rest in peace.

Let's get back to the original purpose of this video: noise levels...

 

Do you have trouble reading-comprehending? 

[Trek of Joy]

On 10/31/2018 at 8:43 AM, BasiliskFilm said:

...Unless the Z6 can match it, plus with a decent EVF and backscreen. Admittedly the kit lens is an f4 (no Tamron, yet), which is a shame, but looks pretty good at what it does.

I am interested in the Z6 as well, but there aren't any in the wild and it'll be another year before the 2.8 zooms are available (supposedly). The EVF/LCD and fat grip are really appealing. But I don't think it'll be able to match the a73's AF. Until the workhorse zoom trinity is out, the Zed's are just rental test cameras for me. 

Chris