AlexTrinder96 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I have to completely disagree with the argument of this camera being too expensive... You can buy the mavo lf pro package for just under £15k.. The Sony Venice, with the olded viewfinder is Nearly 60k. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 8 hours ago, AlexTrinder96 said: I have to completely disagree with the argument of this camera being too expensive... You can buy the mavo lf pro package for just under £15k.. The Sony Venice, with the olded viewfinder is Nearly 60k. This comparison is completely wrong, for accessories and quality ... The two cameras are on two completely different worlds ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexTrinder96 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, maxmizer said: This comparison is completely wrong, for accessories and quality ... The two cameras are on two completely different worlds ... I never said it was as good. Can you name another company that have a large format cinema camera with similar features, under £15k? Even £20k? Otherwise, no this comparison isn't wrong. This camera is obviously not aimed at Hollywood studios... It is priced competitively for what you get. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said: I never said it was as good. Can you name another company that have a large format cinema camera with similar features, under £15k? Even £20k? Otherwise, no this comparison isn't wrong. This camera is obviously not aimed at Hollywood studios... It is priced competitively for what you get. Perhaps the mistake for many is that the large format is a plus, when it is not so ... the S35 sensor is still the format for cinema ... as a whole, it is not up to par, despite the company's effort to be ambitious. Then the market will do its part ...Attention to buyers could be a very expensive firm card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexTrinder96 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, maxmizer said: Perhaps the mistake for many is that the large format is a plus, when it is not so ... the S35 sensor is still the format for cinema ... as a whole, it is not up to par, despite the company's effort to be ambitious. Then the market will do its part ...Attention to buyers could be a very expensive firm card. So you're saying large format is not useful in any way? How can you make such a sweeping statement without using the cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said: So you're saying large format is not useful in any way? No I'm saying that most of the old cinema lenses (randomly 85%) in possession of the PRO are s35 ... the LF sensor is for those who fall back on cheap lenses derived from photography, and only marginally to the new FF cinema that are expensive . From your previous question: Sony FS5 / FS7 / F5 - Varicam LT- All Blackmagic- Canon C100-200-300 ... all have lower or equal costs (varicam LT). 17 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said: How can you make such a sweeping statement without using the cam? It is practically impossible to try, because it does not exist (in Italy) ... I tried all the others though ... and then a lot of research, so many movies seen, and so many years of passion. If you have good eyes, a good monitor and experience you can see ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexTrinder96 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, maxmizer said: No I'm saying that most of the old cinema lenses (randomly 85%) in possession of the PRO are s35 ... the LF sensor is for those who fall back on cheap lenses derived from photography, and only marginally to the new FF cinema that are expensive . From your previous question: Sony FS5 / FS7 / F5 - Varicam LT- All Blackmagic- Canon C100-200-300 ... all have lower or equal costs (varicam LT). Well those cameras line up with the mavo, not the lf. I said large format. (Equivalent of 35mm or larger). So all those cameras you mentioned failed to meet that criteria. if you want to buy a great super35 camera there are many excellent options. But if you want to venture into the large format realm, the mavo lf is much more obtainable than competitors large format cameras. You seem to have missed my reason for bringing the cost into play. The Mavo/Mavo lf will likely have quirks, but the at the price there is nothing that can match it spec wise (Lf) with the same size sensor. I personally find the colours from this Mavo Lf footage to be much more pleasing than the venice footage you posted. IronFilm and austinchimp 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raafi Rivero Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 58 minutes ago, maxmizer said: the S35 sensor is still the format for cinema ... as a whole, it is not up to par, despite the company's effort to be ambitious. This is kind of a ridiculous statement. Not sure how you can make such a sweeping judgment not having shot on the camera. re: S35 vs Full-Frame - one of the cool things about shooting on a full-frame camera like the Mavo LF is you can always bump down to S35 mode and shoot on a traditional frame size in 4k at any time. I did it the other day. webrunner5, IronFilm, AlexTrinder96 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 On an interesting side note, my friends over at ARRI Germany told me the response to ALEXA LF has been very underwhelming, and at the same time the demand for Alexa 65 has skyrocketed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 My Friends over at arri told me they don't know you. IronFilm and Grimor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Most definitely there is an awareness of the countless factors that involve camera choices and its image as I mentioned, but to me the whole idea of why I choose cameras is specifically the sensor used. I like the idea of custom made sensors and each company’s concept of quality. For instance the AltaSens sensor used in the GYLS300 and the image created with it, to me is one of the most beautiful thing. My thoughts are that most modern cameras are like different film stock. I wouldn’t like to use the same “stock”. The reason I purchased the Z-Cams is because it uses the same sensor as the GH4, which sensor produces lovely images and since the E1s were a fraction of the g4 cost, I opted for it....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raafi Rivero Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 There is some confusion in the metaphor you're making about film stock and digital sensors. One the one hand you say that you want companies to produce custom made sensors, then you conclude by saying you purchased a Z-cam because it uses the same sensor as the GH4. There are several layers to the way digital images are made and the sensor is just one of them. The color science of the camera matters as well - the Blackmagic CC4K and AJA Cion were released around the same time and were widely reported to use the same sensor. Both companies were known primarily for making breakout boxes and postproduction hardware. Both decided to move up the image chain to make a camera. The BMCC4K was Blackmagic's second camera. Blackmagic still makes cameras, and in fact the most popular thread on this website is about one of them. AJA produced an ergonomically superior camera. AJA released a video where the skin-tone of the models was not pleasing. AJA failed because of poor color science. So, you see, the sensor itself is not the dominant factor. Otherwise sensor makers would just make cameras. Engineering meets aesthetics in a camera. The manufacturer must have an appreciation for both - in the build and design of the camera body itself, and in its appreciation for the types of images the camera will be used to produce. Kinefinity's engineering prowess is clear. No other large format camera delivers such specs in such a small package. The aesthetic question is, of course, more subjective. I believe the Mavo LF is capable of creating excellent, cinema-quality images. webrunner5 and IronFilm 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Nikkor said: My Friends over at arri told me they don't know you. I didn't know you have friends! ? Apparently word got out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 hours ago, androidlad said: I didn't know you have friends! ? Apparently word got out getalife.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 12 hours ago, maxmizer said: From your previous question: Sony FS5 / FS7 / F5 - Varicam LT- All Blackmagic- Canon C100-200-300 ... all have lower or equal costs (varicam LT). That is a drastically wide range of cameras you've listed there. Almost like they're just randomly thrown together. FS5 vs F5, totally different categories! C100 vs C300, totally different categories! Ditto the Kinefinity MAVO LF being in a totally different category to most of those. 7 hours ago, Raafi Rivero said: There is some confusion in the metaphor you're making about film stock and digital sensors. One the one hand you say that you want companies to produce custom made sensors, then you conclude by saying you purchased a Z-cam because it uses the same sensor as the GH4. There are several layers to the way digital images are made and the sensor is just one of them. The color science of the camera matters as well - the Blackmagic CC4K and AJA Cion were released around the same time and were widely reported to use the same sensor. Both companies were known primarily for making breakout boxes and postproduction hardware. Both decided to move up the image chain to make a camera. The BMCC4K was Blackmagic's second camera. Blackmagic still makes cameras, and in fact the most popular thread on this website is about one of them. AJA produced an ergonomically superior camera. AJA released a video where the skin-tone of the models was not pleasing. AJA failed because of poor color science. So, you see, the sensor itself is not the dominant factor. Otherwise sensor makers would just make cameras. Engineering meets aesthetics in a camera. The manufacturer must have an appreciation for both - in the build and design of the camera body itself, and in its appreciation for the types of images the camera will be used to produce. Kinefinity's engineering prowess is clear. No other large format camera delivers such specs in such a small package. The aesthetic question is, of course, more subjective. I believe the Mavo LF is capable of creating excellent, cinema-quality images. Not just AJA CION vs BMPC4K, but also later on BMD reused the sensor inside the original URSA and later the URSA Mini 4K. And we can see how BMD has taken that same sensor they first used in the BMPC4K and pushed it even further the capabilities in the URSA Mini 4K (still wouldn't ever take it though over a UM 4.6K!) AlexTrinder96 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 9 hours ago, IronFilm said: Almost like they're just randomly thrown together. Yes I confirm, but it was only to give an answer to the price ... I remember that I follow Kine and that the camera is good, but for me not the price that is sold ... I repeat for the third time, the market will make its choice in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 21 hours ago, Raafi Rivero said: This is kind of a ridiculous statement. Not sure how you can make such a sweeping judgment not having shot on the camera. re: S35 vs Full-Frame - one of the cool things about shooting on a full-frame camera like the Mavo LF is you can always bump down to S35 mode and shoot on a traditional frame size in 4k at any time. I did it the other day. When they sell the camera from the suppliers, be sure I'll go surely to try it, but it seems that nobody wants to sell it (distribute it). in Europe only one https://hdvideoshop.com/en/kinefinity/4341-preorder-kinefinity-mavo-mavo-lf.html?search_query=mavo&results=14 ... another is no longer europe ... https://www.proav.co.uk/kinefinity-mavo-6k-cinema-camera I can tell you that in Italy in the last three months have been sold between 2000/3000 BMPC4K and any kinefinity 0 some reason is ... (maybe the price!) the BMD like all the others I find at the store near the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raafi Rivero Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 22 hours ago, maxmizer said: but it seems that nobody wants to sell it (distribute it). in Europe only one I guess if you don't count Amsterdam, Poland, Belgium, the Czech Republic, and Spain, then, yeah, there's only one distributor in Europe. I'd bet they add U.S. soon, too: http://www.kinefinity.com/kineteam/contact-us/?lang=en IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 14 hours ago, Raafi Rivero said: I'd bet they add U.S. soon It could be you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:18 PM, Raafi Rivero said: I guess if you don't count Amsterdam, Poland, Belgium, the Czech Republic, and Spain, then, yeah, there's only one distributor in Europe. I'd bet they add U.S. soon, too: http://www.kinefinity.com/kineteam/contact-us/?lang=en None of those have it in the shop to try or demo I think ... and do not just make an announcement on online store ... this also understands a child ... Pre-order you can do it where you want but then you have to buy ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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