The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K unboxed and first impressions - Best indie RAW camera yet?

[Lenscamera]

3 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Two comments by my side:

Hybrid should mean IBIS in 2018, so maybe a good reason to wait for 2019 X-H2 ; )

Conclusion: I'd probably go with GH5 for now to follow the last firmware AF improvement.

Add a faster than f/2.8... f/2 for APS-C or f/1.7 for MFT and you'll just be fine on S35 look ; -)

 

IBIS for my needs is a nice to have because I will always have my camera on a gimbal for when I need moving shots.  

I actually have a GH5s that will be working alongside the BMPCC4k. But for stills, I will never again use a MFT sensor. APS-C is the least I will go but then again, I like the full frame look after using the D750 and A7III. I consider a good hybrid camera one with good stills and video, which I will also be able to add some flashes for still. 

I was even considering the Panasonic S1 but I wouldn't be able to know exactly what it will offer including test footage at best until May - June 2019. That will be too long for me. 

[Emanuel]

19 minutes ago, Lenscamera said:

I actually have a GH5s that will be working alongside the BMPCC4k. But for stills, I will never again use a MFT sensor. APS-C is the least I will go but then again, I like the full frame look after using the D750 and A7III. I consider a good hybrid camera one with good stills and video, which I will also be able to add some flashes for still.

GH5 is another ballpark and still very capable updated hybrid camera. Without mention, you can serve her with the same glass you use for Pocket 4K. Ignore the hypes, my most honest tip ; ) With fast glass you match APS-C, with a focal reducer, the FF look.

Just my 2 cents though : -)

 

[Lenscamera]

36 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

GH5 is another ballpark and still very capable updated hybrid camera. Without mention, you can serve her with the same glass you use for Pocket 4K. Ignore the hypes, my most honest tip ; ) With fast glass you match APS-C, with a focal reducer, the FF look.

Just my 2 cents though : -)

 

You are right, fast glass on APS-C can produce the FF look. 

But I have used MFT, APS-C, and full frame cameras to shoot on many different projects. My favorite photos were those taken on full frame, I found myself liking that look a lot.  

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, Lenscamera said:

You are right, fast glass on APS-C can produce the FF look.

I only see advantage for MFT... Small and light gear, much affordable than the larger ones.

Even though, FF is here to stay, I bet.

APS-C is S35, the best commitment with bokeh you can find for focusing in motion picture.

[Lucas A]

1 hour ago, Lenscamera said:

You are right, fast glass on APS-C can produce the FF look. 

But I have used MFT, APS-C, and full frame cameras to shoot on many different projects. My favorite photos were those taken on full frame, I found myself liking that look a lot.  

It's true that for stills, a full frame camera is the way to go for me, every time. I have a cheap old Sony A7 that serves me well. I despise the menus and the form factor is not comfortable, logical or sensible but it does take lovely professional raw stills.

For video, however, I am so happy with m43 and APS-C sized cameras. Better rolling shutter is a BIG factor in why. Cost is another! The horrendous UI of Sony A7 series cameras is another. I still don't have my Pocket 4K but I anticipate it will be one of my best ever camera investments.

[currensheldon]

Quick update on the battery jam. I thought I had put in the Black Magic battery that comes with the camera, but it turned out to be a BONACELL (which I only bought for the dual charger and never really planned to use). Must have thrown it in the bag as a back-up and popped it in thinking it was the Black Magic battery (they both say the same thing on the top). Explains why it swelled, died at 85%, and got jammed. I had to krazy glue an object onto it and then pull it out (and never to be used again).

Suffice to say - DO NOT buy 3rd party batteries unless thoroughly tested and approved. The Canon batteries have all worked great and the Black Magic battery that came with the camera also works great, so stick with those two. Battery life is still poor and has to be watched constantly, so still planning on an external solution, but approved LP-E6 batteries will work just fine for 40-45 minutes or so.

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

So is the battery meter actually dodgy, or does the battery swell and the contacts pull away from +/- polls in the compartment?

Hmm. The mystery deepens.

[leobauberger]

X-T3 still having great AF even using fring adaptor aka EF lenses is a BIG bonus, indeed.
My only 'hold back' into sticking to EOS R is the upcoming drop-in variable nd filter adaptor. It can be something amazing if the canon ND is somewhat good, it would be almost like a miniC200 and the fact that I already have canon bodies and glass, so this will make editing fast and money wise cheaper (no new lens system). 
There are just a few tests using 10bits external vs 8bits internal, I still don't know if the 10bits external is real or not, because if it is crap, it's a dealbreaker.

[Emanuel]

20 minutes ago, leobauberger said:

X-T3 still having great AF even using fring adaptor aka EF lenses is a BIG bonus, indeed.

Really?

Here: https://www.thephoblographer.com/2018/09/25/adapter-review-fringer-ef-fx-pro-tested-on-the-fujifilm-x-pro-2/

"The Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 that I used with this adapter did alright, functioning as I would expect it to most of the time, but occasionally having a weird glitchy focus or aperture change issue."

What's your input from your experience with?

[Andrew Reid]

The Fringer needs to be used on the X-T3 in phase-detect AF mode with compatible lenses. I don't think the Phoblographer had much luck on the X-Pro 2 as it's a much older AF system especially in video mode where it is particularly useless.

[leobauberger]

30 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Really?

Here: https://www.thephoblographer.com/2018/09/25/adapter-review-fringer-ef-fx-pro-tested-on-the-fujifilm-x-pro-2/

"The Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 that I used with this adapter did alright, functioning as I would expect it to most of the time, but occasionally having a weird glitchy focus or aperture change issue."

What's your input from your experience with?

Andrew just said fring works great a few posts before my answer.

 

*What do you guys thing about the upcoming drop-in nd filter adaptor? Lackluster or gold? 
Because this is something that I truly miss from the cine line, but I don't know if they somehow will make it bad, afterall it's canon we're talking ?

[Andrew Reid]

Do you like Roxette?

Fringer do!

[currensheldon]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

So is the battery meter actually dodgy, or does the battery swell and the contacts pull away from +/- polls in the compartment?

Hmm. The mystery deepens.

Yea hard to say what happened. If I had to guess, the battery meter was fine and the battery still had 85% charge left, but was then overwhelmed by the power draw, overheated, swole, and then shut down and jammed (due to slight expansion). But, got it out and all is in fine working condition with good batteries. 

1 hour ago, leobauberger said:

X-T3 still having great AF even using fring adaptor aka EF lenses is a BIG bonus, indeed.
My only 'hold back' into sticking to EOS R is the upcoming drop-in variable nd filter adaptor. It can be something amazing if the canon ND is somewhat good, it would be almost like a miniC200 and the fact that I already have canon bodies and glass, so this will make editing fast and money wise cheaper (no new lens system). 
There are just a few tests using 10bits external vs 8bits internal, I still don't know if the 10bits external is real or not, because if it is crap, it's a dealbreaker.

Honestly, that drop-in variable ND filter is the best thing the EOS R line has going for it right now. That is HUGE for someone like me who prefers smaller cameras (like Pocket 4K, GH5) but really like video camera features like NDs (and double XLR audio inputs).

I could see the RF mount being something pretty special if Canon attack it hard. Throw a Super35mm sensor into an XC15-like body with an RF mount and I'd guess they'd sell a lot. Maybe even ditch the XLR adapter and do what Black Magic did and put a mini XLR + 3.5mm jack on the side. A true C100 III. Surprised that Black Magic are really the first manufacturer to make a truly video-centric camera with a decent sensor size in that small of a form factor. Next closest is the FS5, but still quite a bit bigger. 

Also - wonder who will put Black Magic Raw in a camera first. Hoping Fuji or Canon, but not holding my breath. 

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Wait for the copy-cat drop-in variable ND filters for all sorts of mirrorless cameras!

Technically one is possible for Micro Four Thirds Mount / Pocket 4K as well.

[thebrothersthre3]

I won't count on Canon utilizing the BM Raw. I can sort of see Panasonic as they are saying RAW will be a feature on the S1.

[A_Urquhart]

26 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

Yea hard to say what happened. If I had to guess, the battery meter was fine and the battery still had 85% charge left, but was then overwhelmed by the power draw, overheated, swole, and then shut down and jammed (due to slight expansion)

I bought Wasabi batteries and while they never got stuck in the camera, the camera did shut down after about 25mins and with the meter showing 75% full so I don't think it has anything to do with the swelling.

What I did find is that if I put the Wasabis in with a full charge and left the camera on, the meter would start at 100% and then shut down at 75% 25mins later. But, if I did the same and turned the camera off  after 15mins or so (meter showing around 85% left) and then back on, the meter would then show 8% or so charge and shut down five or so minutes later. Seems that the meter was accurate after powering down the camera and rebooting. This only happened with the Wasabis (which I have now sent back). With Genuine LP-E6N, I'm not having any issues.

[leobauberger]

33 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

Honestly, that drop-in variable ND filter is the best thing the EOS R line has going for it right now. That is HUGE for someone like me who prefers smaller cameras (like Pocket 4K, GH5) but really like video camera features like NDs (and double XLR audio inputs).

I could see the RF mount being something pretty special if Canon attack it hard. Throw a Super35mm sensor into an XC15-like body with an RF mount and I'd guess they'd sell a lot. Maybe even ditch the XLR adapter and do what Black Magic did and put a mini XLR + 3.5mm jack on the side. A true C100 III. Surprised that Black Magic are really the first manufacturer to make a truly video-centric camera with a decent sensor size in that small of a form factor. Next closest is the FS5, but still quite a bit bigger. 

Also - wonder who will put Black Magic Raw in a camera first. Hoping Fuji or Canon, but not holding my breath. 

 

 

Exactly. IF the drop-in variable ND is like the cine lines, that's something really amazing and that only canon have atm. Unless another brand release something like the Sony FS5 eletronic ND. 

I believe the RF mount will deliver the best lenses for all these new mounts out there. In the end Canon is a lens brand more than a video brand.

I would not hold my breath even for a C100 III or a XC15, I believe they will first upgrade all their c200/c300 ultra-pro line, then release a update for the entry cine line.
 

13 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Wait for the copy-cat drop-in variable ND filters for all sorts of mirrorless cameras!

Technically one is possible for Micro Four Thirds Mount / Pocket 4K as well.

 

The only difference is: copy-cat adapters usually sucks. Even metabones make almost all the AF systems horrible.
That fring one is something apart, although I want to see more tests, when things got more out of control and not in a shine sun day.

[Timotheus]

For the manual focus crowd, there is the rather nice Vizelex Throttle ND, with vari ND built in the mount adapter.

Now if they could "only" also add some focal reducing glass...

[BTM_Pix]

13 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

So is the battery meter actually dodgy, or does the battery swell and the contacts pull away from +/- polls in the compartment?

Hmm. The mystery deepens.

The meter is random at best and ironically its at its worst when used with the battery supplied as it uses blocks to illustrate the power level rather than the percentage with other batteries.

One interesting thing though is that I've had mine sat on a tabletop tripod powered on for about 4 hours off the mains now while I've been performing 'certain operations  ' on it and it is pretty much stone cold. Even the fan is only putting out just enough hot air to warm the hands of an Action Man.

The tight tolerance in the battery compartment is obviously not doing the camera any favours here and its causing a bit of a loop in that the cheap batteries are more prone to slight swelling when hot but the camera itself is more prone to causing that swelling by how much heat it is generating and not venting in there.

Very interested to hear how you get on with your Powerbase battery.

I've said it before but BM really need to pull their finger out delivering the cable kit to offer some different power options.

[currensheldon]

This camera would benefit greatly from a battery grip that can be attached like every other DSLR/mirrorless camera out there. Surprised someone doesn't just make a battery grip style external power source. They'd sell loads of them. Not a fan of the Powerbase form factor from the looks of it, but interested to see how people like it.