The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K unboxed and first impressions - Best indie RAW camera yet?

[Shirozina]

1 minute ago, leobauberger said:

P4K, X-T3 or EOS R. I'm going crazy with this choice.

Or A7III, GH5, GH5s....

[tweak]

8 hours ago, Shirozina said:

Fair points but are you looking for a singe camera to replace your existing one (GH5) as I was certainly not. For me the P4k just adds capability to my existing GH5 setup - 4k60p, high ISO/low light performance, RAW and extra DR. It won't replace my GH5 but the ludicrous low price it is too good a deal to pass on. If it was more money I'd probably hesitate even with more features but I reckon for and EVF, tilting screen , IBS and bigger battery you would be looking at a lot more than double the price.

Yes, for me personally as a replacement to GH5, hence my initial statement.

P4K with personal caveats listed would add very little to my arsenal and be mostly useless. Also I want to carry less equipment, not more. Anyone who travels a lot to do their work will know how I feel about that, carrying more gear is painful.

I would still think about buying if it were triple the price (I doubt those features would be much over double though), if you take current camera prices such as GH5 into consideration, also taking their huge margins into consideration. I don't see why you would suddenly need to pay triple for some weather sealing and a flipy screen hahaha.

[DBounce]

12 hours ago, tweak said:

I know, there's also not many cameras that shoot Raw at a decent size and weight (DSLR size). 7D and 5D with ML were amazing, but I'd like something that does 4K raw in 4:3 aspect in that same size and weight... If the GH5 shot Raw it would be my perfect camera almost. Maybe Pana will deliver with their FF offering.

The Panasonic S1/R should tick all those boxes. But second thoughts... don't count Fuji out... who knows what the XH2 will bring? Im sure it will be compelling. Fujifilm is starting to take video seriously. 

[Lucas A]

To all of those people saying they'd prefer a full frame sensor on the BM pocket 4K, surely that's overlooking one of the great advantages of m43/ XL Speedbooster combinations for film making, which is that the smaller sensor leads to improved rolling shutter artefact performance over ALL full frame cameras, which is a hugely important aspect of what I call "good video performance" or creating "a nice image." 

 

[maxmizer]

2 hours ago, leobauberger said:

P4K, X-T3 or EOS R. I'm going crazy with this choice.

Simple:
between P4K only video and (X-T3 - EosR are also Photocameras).
if you also want photocamera, the P4K is discarded.
Between X-T3 and Eos R, EosR is discarded.
The chosen is clear X-T3.
If you only care about P4k video it's your choice.

[currensheldon]

BATTERY JAM

I read this yesterday and have not had any issues with the battery jamming for the two weeks I've had the camera.

But last night, on the first real shoot that I've really used it on, the battery jams! And I couldn't get it out (battery also randomly died when it said 85%!) and missed some of the action. Luckily, I still had the GH5 and quickly swapped over my lenses and microphone and kept shooting. But man, not cool. Not when I was thinking of making this my A-Cam for all one-man-band documentary or lower budget commercial work.

Battery is still stuck in the compartment. 

Andrew - seen any videos or reports of how to get the battery out once it is jammed in there? Definitely getting external power (the Tilta cages + power look fantastic), but still need the LP-E6 batteries to work. Obviously. 

[Sid]

 

Can I ask anyone at all for some information on something I have been wondering for some time.  The original BM pocket camera impacted on Digital Bolex, and the Bolex must surely have impacted on the Ikonoskop.

Yet the analogue ccd family of sensors used in the Ikonoskop and Digital Bolex were never used again in the cinema camera world.....but are still in use in cameras marketed to different markets, and I can't help feeling these might really be cinema cameras in disguise, so to speak.

But the connectors and image output formats puzzle me, as the specs show 12 bit uncompressed, and the sockets vary from ethernet to cameralink.  Here is an example of a camera using the exact same sensor as the Digital Bolex.

https://www.imperx.com/ccd-cameras/B2340/

There are other variations elsewhere, some of which come with an optional Nikon or Canon mount.  Does anyone have either experience or any views at all of these cameras ?

[BTM_Pix]

35 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

BATTERY JAM

I read this yesterday and have not had any issues with the battery jamming for the two weeks I've had the camera.

But last night, on the first real shoot that I've really used it on, the battery jams! And I couldn't get it out (battery also randomly died when it said 85%!) and missed some of the action. Luckily, I still had the GH5 and quickly swapped over my lenses and microphone and kept shooting. But man, not cool. Not when I was thinking of making this my A-Cam for all one-man-band documentary or lower budget commercial work.

Battery is still stuck in the compartment. 

Andrew - seen any videos or reports of how to get the battery out once it is jammed in there? Definitely getting external power (the Tilta cages + power look fantastic), but still need the LP-E6 batteries to work. Obviously. 

Cut a strip of gaffer tape slightly wider than the battery and affix it at each end so that it has a bridge in the middle that you can put something in (small screwdriver or tweezers for example) then press the tape down around it. 

You should then be able to pull on the screwdriver/tweezers to pull it out.

Another alternative is to use double sided velcro but you have to make sure that it is firmly glued on.

The velcro option would allow you to keep on using the battery in the Pocket4K and be able to always be able to get it out again.

Though I doubt you want to put it anywhere near the camera again after that experience !

[Shirozina]

57 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

BATTERY JAM

I read this yesterday and have not had any issues with the battery jamming for the two weeks I've had the camera.

But last night, on the first real shoot that I've really used it on, the battery jams! And I couldn't get it out (battery also randomly died when it said 85%!) and missed some of the action. Luckily, I still had the GH5 and quickly swapped over my lenses and microphone and kept shooting. But man, not cool. Not when I was thinking of making this my A-Cam for all one-man-band documentary or lower budget commercial work.

Battery is still stuck in the compartment. 

Andrew - seen any videos or reports of how to get the battery out once it is jammed in there? Definitely getting external power (the Tilta cages + power look fantastic), but still need the LP-E6 batteries to work. Obviously. 

That's bad news. Just thinking aloud here - if the P4K draws too much power the battery may swell and fail even if not exhausted leading to these 2 problems. 

[tonysss]

1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

BATTERY JAM

I read this yesterday and have not had any issues with the battery jamming for the two weeks I've had the camera.

But last night, on the first real shoot that I've really used it on, the battery jams! And I couldn't get it out (battery also randomly died when it said 85%!) and missed some of the action. Luckily, I still had the GH5 and quickly swapped over my lenses and microphone and kept shooting. But man, not cool. Not when I was thinking of making this my A-Cam for all one-man-band documentary or lower budget commercial work.

Battery is still stuck in the compartment. 

Andrew - seen any videos or reports of how to get the battery out once it is jammed in there? Definitely getting external power (the Tilta cages + power look fantastic), but still need the LP-E6 batteries to work. Obviously. 

 

Client: is something going on?  , not everything is all right ? , just ask for 10min pause ...

[Andrew Reid]

Was it a third party LP-E6 battery or a genuine Canon blue label battery?

[currensheldon]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Was it a third party LP-E6 battery or a genuine Canon blue label battery?

It was actually the battery that came with the camera. I bought three genuine Canon LP-E6 batteries and have been using only those and never had an issue (have probably changed the battery 25+ times since I've had the camera). So, perhaps those are less prone to jamming. 

[Snowfun]

Where is it jamming? Is the battery itself swelling or is the heat distorting the plastic surround? If the latter it might be a relatively easy fix (the opposite of the oft quoted epoxy solution - the file).

I’ve only had genuine Canon in mine and so far it’s been fine (but never on or recording for more than 30s at a time I guess).

Not ideal...

[helium]

I tested a cheap third party battery, recording continuously for 50+ minutes with the screen at 35% (bright enough for indoors and cloudy days).  Wasn't all that hot and no difficulty getting it out.  Don't ask which one, I'd rather not offer a recommendation without more use.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that the most common battery to jam is the counterfeit LP-E6, not the acknowledged clones.  Somebody else claimed that the authentic Canons have latches more apt to jam on the BMPCC 4K, though it's possible this guy actually had a counterfeit, as reputable dealers don't appear to offer an absolute assurance you're getting the real thing. 

If the BMD battery suddenly jammed after repeated successful use, what other explanation than that it swelled?

At some point, this may get sorted out....

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

It was actually the battery that came with the camera. I bought three genuine Canon LP-E6 batteries and have been using only those and never had an issue (have probably changed the battery 25+ times since I've had the camera). So, perhaps those are less prone to jamming. 

I have yet to hear a report of the genuine Canon batteries jamming, because I think the cheaper cells in the third party LPs expand under stress or heat generation, wedging the battery housing into some kind of kink in the camera compartment.

I definitely recommend investing in some proper Canon batteries and chucking the one that came with it in the bin.

[Lenscamera]

For me I am will have this camera for when I want to shoot in a controlled environment or when I can afford to frame and reframe my shots or do a retake. My dilemma now is whether I keep my Nikon Z6 preorder or go for XT-3 with the 16-55 f2.8 lens. But then again, I really like full frame look. I want a good hybrid camera for when I am not using the BMPCC4k, which is going to be a lot. 

[sanveer]

I think the REAL fun with the reviews will start with the BRAW firmware coming in. Much smaller file sizes in RAW (12:1), improved low light compared to DNG, much more film-like grain, and I am guessing some minor improvement in dynamic range (mostly due to way the noise in the Last stops may appear). 

[graphicnatured]

6 hours ago, leobauberger said:

P4K, X-T3 or EOS R. I'm going crazy with this choice.

For me, it's P4K. I already have a great photo camera, plus lenses for it, plus three speed lights for it, plus radios and strobes. No need to completely start from scratch with another system that I may or may not like. I already shoot with Ursa Mini Pro, Micro and Pocket. An easy choice. If money were no object, maybe I'd buy both, but considering all the money you'd also have to spend on the Fuji system it isn't worth it to me if you already have a still photo system that works well.

[Emanuel]

21 minutes ago, Lenscamera said:

For me I am will have this camera for when I want to shoot in a controlled environment or when I have can afford to frame or reframe my shots. My dilemma now is whether I keep my Nikon Z6 preorder or go for XT-3 with the 16-55 f2.8 lens. But then again, I really like full frame look. I want a good hybrid camera for when I am not using BMPCC4k, which is going to be a lot. 

Two comments by my side:

- Hybrid should mean IBIS in 2018, so maybe a good reason to wait for 2019 X-H2 ; )

Conclusion: I'd probably go with 6K -> 5K GH5 for now to follow the last firmware AF improvement.

- Add a faster glass route other than f/2.8... f/2 for APS-C or f/1.7 for MFT and you'll be just fine on S35 look ; -)

It is not hard, is it? : -)

 

[Andrew Reid]

At least with Fringer adapter for Fuji X mount you can add IS to the X-T3 with Canon IS lenses. It works well. Also the AF is supposed to be amazing.