Sony A7R IV / A7S III / A9 II to feature 8K video, as new 60MP and 36MP full frame sensor specs leak

[Caleb Genheimer]

Extra resolution is helpful when doing any transformation of the image in post. A great example is Anamorphic. I’ve been developing a method for reducing some of the mumps in the middle and extreme compression at the edges of my anamorphic footage, and pushing those pixels around can definitely start to muddy the image. Downscaling 8k to 4K or 2K will also reduce noise by summing the data from multiple photosites. 

I’ve recently finished a short film, got a DCP authored at 2K, and it looked fantastic in the theater. There’s even 1080p footage in there. You can’t tell. There’s definitely an edge seeing the 4K master file on a good monitor though, and I DID do mild reframing on about a third of the film. Having thrown something up on the “big screen”, I can absolutely see the benefit that “overshooting” (with respect to delivery resolution) would have. 

That being said, I don’t give a rat’s rear end about Sony cameras. Their look is the most unpleasant thing to look at IMO. Hopefully Panasonic sticks one of these in their mkII FF body, or in a fullframe EVA-2.

[kye]

Hooray!  After people started getting their Pocket 4K cameras we only had the Panny S1 to argue about - now we can get excited about the inevitability of 8K vs Sonys ability to quadruple the data rates and not have the camera actually melt!

With Japan gearing up for the 2020 Olympics to be broadcast in 8K there is only ~20 months before an entire 8K distribution network (including something like 1000 8K cameras) must be in place, having been constructed, tested, and bug fixed.  You'd be mad if you think that Japan will let themselves fail to deliver a technological feat like this while the entire world is watching, Moores law be damned.

So, if we're going to have an entirely functional 8K capture, processing, distribution, and consumption network in place in less than two years for the worlds most watched event, then exactly when do you think the tech will be made possible?  The day before?

[webrunner5]

You also have to consider that Studios, Effects Companys that do intense VFX, delivering in 4K, even 2K would love the extra real estate 8K offers. And you can bet there will be a ton of special effects during the 2020 Olympics footage wise. Hey I didn't spell it Olympus for once. ?

[newfoundmass]

11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You also have to consider that Studios, Effects Companys that do intense VFX, delivering in 4K, even 2K would love the extra real estate 8K offers. And you can bet there will be a ton of special effects during the 2020 Olympics footage wise. Hey I didn't spell it Olympus for once. ?

Most of them aren't going to be shooting on mirrorless ILCs though!

[webrunner5]

35 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Most of them aren't going to be shooting on mirrorless ILCs though!

True that LoL.

[kye]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

Most of them aren't going to be shooting on mirrorless ILCs though!

That's probably true, but where are the 8K cameras they'll be shooting on?

If you're developing 8K cameras for broadcast and you're also in the business of making MILCs then there's quite a lot of synergy there, considering that electronics are basically modular.  Of course, for the A7sIII they might opt to keep it 4K and instead of oversampling an image they could do true 4K in hardware by taking a 2x2 grid and combining them to get 4K in 444 colour.  If they did this then they could also have two blue pixels and average them in the conversion, which would help noise in the final image, and may keep the A7s range as the low-light leaders.

[Django]

A73 already shoots 4K downscaled from 6K. Shows like House of Cards are shot in real 6K on Red Dragon (5.5TB files per 55mn episode!) since 2014.

Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me Sony would be pushing 8K on their next-gen cameras next year. Someone has to pave the way towards the inevitable.

How they will manage that without over-heating issues remains a mystery although that would corroborate the delay due to heat issue rumors.

I'd assume a major body redesign is in the works (and at that point they might as well just skip the A7S III moniker and go straight to series IV!)

 

[Shirozina]

In terms of in-camera processing it may be less intensive to go straight from 8k capture to an 8k codec rather than resampling to a 4k and then to a codec?

[Castorp]

Would love priority on colour rather than resolution.

At the same time I would like more resolution for stills. Would love a 60mp sensor for making huge prints. 

[BTM_Pix]

58 minutes ago, Django said:

Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me Sony would be pushing 8K on their next-gen cameras next year. Someone has to pave the way towards the inevitable.

I'm a bit confused about the apparent incredulity of Sony releasing an 8K camera sooner rather than later as well.

We have already had this video on here before but here is an interview from the BBC with a Sony Senior Manager at Photokina where he clearly states that they already have it but will just decide the timing for the customer.

And the little smirk at the end of the interview doesn't exactly hint at this 'correct timing' being several years away.

(Ignore the hero frame, the link will start the video at the start of the interview. BTW If you haven't seen this video before it is worth rewinding it to about 4:06 to watch Canon's European Vice President being somewhat disarmed by the direct questioning of the BBC journalist)

 

[thebrothersthre3]

You don't really need a 16bit screen to reap the benefits though.

[nickname]

Andrew, I'm impatiently waiting for your pocket4k review! Can't wait to see what look you get out of it! 

8k should give us nice HD, so why not! 

[KnightsFan]

2 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

You don't really need a 16bit screen to reap the benefits though.

Yeah, I'm sure the 16 bit refers to the linear raw file. Applying any curve, whether a creative color grade in post or a simple gamma on a SOOC jpeg, could see benefits from a higher bit depth ADC. An extra 2 bits at the digital quantization stage wouldn't even translate to larger files on a 10 bit video output, but could improve the dynamic range and such.

[zerocool22]

16 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Yeah, I'm sure the 16 bit refers to the linear raw file. Applying any curve, whether a creative color grade in post or a simple gamma on a SOOC jpeg, could see benefits from a higher bit depth ADC. An extra 2 bits at the digital quantization stage wouldn't even translate to larger files on a 10 bit video output, but could improve the dynamic range and such.

Yeah the RAW might be 16bit, lets hope they make the video at least 10bit. If its 8bit billcrap again, then its doa.

[JurijTurnsek]

Hopefully, a smartphone will beat them to the 8K punch, so that some asshat will be able to do a comparison review and single-handedly annihilate what remains of the ILC market.

[BasiliskFilm]

I wouldn't be surprised in the first instance if it just brings full sensor readout to a 42MP camera (A7RIV perhaps?) for 4K. Writing to a card is probably a challenge, and they still don't have 6K output from sensors that do 6K readout. The line skipping on the current A7RIII does compromise quality a bit compared with the A7III, so it would only bring parity with the top end models.

[Robert Collins]

Don’t know about 8k myself - would definitely like to get away from 8 bit though.

[hansel]

Ok guys stop trolling at once. It’s all great, I can shoot everything with a 20mm and introduce ANYTHING else in post cropping, shake....only question is if they have a grip so I can shoot portrait mode. It’s practical bliss for the casual shooter...

[jgharding]

On 11/24/2018 at 8:36 PM, RWR said:

Although...Aren't they marketing the FS7mkii as having better color science? Anyone here liking that?

For the price it just isn't much of an upgrade as far as I can see, though if colour is stunningly better that would be good, but I think there are better options from competitors, personally

2 hours ago, hansel said:

Ok guys stop trolling at once. It’s all great, I can shoot everything with a 20mm and introduce ANYTHING else in post cropping, shake....only question is if they have a grip so I can shoot portrait mode. It’s practical bliss for the casual shooter...

It's good in theory, but you better nail your focus and have a damn sharp lens!

[hmcindie]

I recently did a quick grade on a fast project. They shot it with a red dragon in 6k. I did some prores files from them and then did a quick grade on top of those. One shot was scaled in 140%. Looked good (we were in an HD timeline) but I decided to replace it with the original 6k file. Snapped it right there in the shot, now the scale was something along 30% so instead of scaling HD up, we scaled 6k down. And... it looked almost the same. I switched those two shots back and forth. Almost no difference in sharpness. Funny.