Sony A7R IV / A7S III / A9 II to feature 8K video, as new 60MP and 36MP full frame sensor specs leak

[thebrothersthre3]

9 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Give h265 the same or even Half the data rate as prores and then compare. 10 bit 422 h265 at a high bitrate looks REALLY good to me.

Is 800mbps the data rate for 4k prores?

[webrunner5]

It is a Lot. Even editing a ProRes 4K Proxy is pretty intense for older systems.

 

[KnightsFan]

28 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Is 800mbps the data rate for 4k prores?

Prores 4k is 500 mb/s, more than double the 200 on the xt3 which looks just as good to me. I may do some tests to see what the actual difference in accuracy is. The xt3 400 mbps is all i, which is significantly less efficient.

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

Prores 4k is 500 mb/s, more than double the 200 on the xt3 which looks just as good to me. I may do some tests to see what the actual difference in accuracy is. The xt3 400 mbps is all i, which is significantly less efficient.

Ah shoot, I thought you could do 400 in H265.

[androidlad]

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

Prores 4k is 500 mb/s, more than double the 200 on the xt3 which looks just as good to me. I may do some tests to see what the actual difference in accuracy is. The xt3 400 mbps is all i, which is significantly less efficient.

X-T3 can use 400Mbps H.265 for both Long GOP and All-I compression up to 30p.

Upcoming firmware 2.0 will also add 400Mbps H.264 Long GOP and All-I options.

[KnightsFan]

43 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Ah shoot, I thought you could do 400 in H265.

You can. I thought it was only in all I, but if you can do long gop in 400 then even better.

[frontfocus]

14 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

You can. I thought it was only in all I, but if you can do long gop in 400 then even better.

as androidlad says, with h.265 and framerates of 30fps or below, you can get 400Mbps with both long gop or all i

[Cliff Totten]

I seriously doubt this is the A7S-III sensor. Sony will go for new generation 12mp BSI fully  stacked design using this architecture. The current 12mp sensor is an older front side illuminated design with 8 micron photosites. A next generation stacked model could be 10+ microns in size?

This spec sheet does give is a good look at what Sony's latest generation sensor architecture will look like.

 

CT

[aldolega]

These sensors seem more suited to an A9II, or A9R. Mayybe an A7RIV? They need a higher tier of processing power, and thus will come in at a higher price, and thus a different market, than the A7xxxx series.

IMO all the A7SIII really needs to be, to be a huge sales success right now, is just an A7III with a 18-20MPish sensor (so APS-C 4K is 1:1 or slightly oversampled), 4K60p, and the better EVF and screen of the A7RIII. That's it. Everything else about the A7III is good enough right now. Release this cam now and every workaday videographer and sub-Hollywood production house buys it, simple as that.

8K, insane framerates, 10bit, the other nuances we wish for here just aren't as important as we think they are, not to the bulk of this camera's market. The market that really cares about these things will have zero problem paying another $1500 for an A9II.

[thebrothersthre3]

27 minutes ago, aldolega said:

These sensors seem more suited to an A9II, or A9R. Mayybe an A7RIV? They need a higher tier of processing power, and thus will come in at a higher price, and thus a different market, than the A7xxxx series.

IMO all the A7SIII really needs to be, to be a huge sales success right now, is just an A7III with a 18-20MPish sensor (so APS-C 4K is 1:1 or slightly oversampled), 4K60p, and the better EVF and screen of the A7RIII. That's it. Everything else about the A7III is good enough right now. Release this cam now and every workaday videographer and sub-Hollywood production house buys it, simple as that.

8K, insane framerates, 10bit, the other nuances we wish for here just aren't as important as we think they are, not to the bulk of this camera's market. The market that really cares about these things will have zero problem paying another $1500 for an A9II.

And a flippy screen

[webrunner5]

I really think they are going to have to come up with a bigger body going forward for both the the A7 series, and the A6500 series. Going 10bit is not going to make it in those small of bodies. Not counting they are just too small to hold with bigger lens fat or long or both fat and long!

The new EOS-R, Z7, Z6 bodies look to be a better solution.

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I really think they are going to have to come up with a bigger body going forward for both the the A7 series, and the A6500 series. Going 10bit is not going to make it in those small of bodies. Not counting they are just too small to hold with bigger lens fat or long or both fat and long!

The new EOS-R, Z7, Z6 bodies look to be a better solution.

I really don't mind at all. My favorite body so far has been the GH5. 

[Django]

8 hours ago, aldolega said:

These sensors seem more suited to an A9II, or A9R. Mayybe an A7RIV? They need a higher tier of processing power, and thus will come in at a higher price, and thus a different market, than the A7xxxx series.

IMO all the A7SIII really needs to be, to be a huge sales success right now, is just an A7III with a 18-20MPish sensor (so APS-C 4K is 1:1 or slightly oversampled), 4K60p, and the better EVF and screen of the A7RIII. That's it. Everything else about the A7III is good enough right now. Release this cam now and every workaday videographer and sub-Hollywood production house buys it, simple as that.

8K, insane framerates, 10bit, the other nuances we wish for here just aren't as important as we think they are, not to the bulk of this camera's market. The market that really cares about these things will have zero problem paying another $1500 for an A9II.

A7SIII will be priced at around $3.5K. And at that price point it will need to be a lot more than an A7III with 4K60p & better screen/EVF.

Besides Sony said that with A7SIII "we want to exceed customer expectation". Read into that what you will but I'm expecting something big...such as 8K.

A7R/S II took the camera world by storm by being the first FF 4K mirrorless cameras. Now that CaNikon & Panny joined the party, they need again to pack some major heat imo.

 

[BTM_Pix]

45 minutes ago, Django said:

They need again to pack some major heat imo.

With Sony bodies, you can always count on there being major heat

[eleison]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

With Sony bodies, you can always count on there being major heat

Unless I can cook an egg on the body, it's not hot enough.  When I'm out in the woods, always good to carry one less thing.  Having to leave my pots at home would be awesome.

[mkabi]

9 hours ago, Django said:

Besides Sony said that with A7SIII "we want to exceed customer expectation". Read into that what you will but I'm expecting something big...such as 8K.

A7R/S II took the camera world by storm by being the first FF 4K mirrorless cameras. Now that CaNikon & Panny joined the party, they need again to pack some major heat imo.

 

I think its packing too much heat already (pun intended) and they are trying to mitigate that at present

But, more seriously, my prediction is that its going to be 18MP to 20MP - 5K camera instead... 5K Anamorphic mode???

With 4K/60p and all the other fixins thats available... + Venice colours... 10 bit externally.

[androidlad]

Sony is finalising its new H.265 based professional codec - XEVC, the successor of XAVC. XEVC is CRF based which is superior to Canon's ABR based XF-HEVC.

XEVC supports:

12Bit YCrCb 4:4:4

12Bit Lossless

12Bit Bayer

12Bit YCrCb 4:2:2 for broadcast delivery

10Bit YCrCb 4:2:2

10Bit YCrCb 4:2:0 for proxy recording

Expect to see other variants of XEVC (XEVC-S) in A7S III and future Sony prosumer cameras.

[Robert Collins]

On 12/10/2018 at 8:33 AM, webrunner5 said:

I really think they are going to have to come up with a bigger body going forward for both the the A7 series, and the A6500 series. Going 10bit is not going to make it in those small of bodies. Not counting they are just too small to hold with bigger lens fat or long or both fat and long!

The new EOS-R, Z7, Z6 bodies look to be a better solution.

There would be a lot of resistance from A7x 'still photographer' users (the bulk of the buyers), to a larger body. One of the major attractions of the A7x series is the relatively small body (not everyone is coming from bulky DSLRs) and not everyone is putting large bulky lenses on their A7x. Remember Fuji tried this with the X-H1 and it didnt sell well.

The A7siii is a different story though. Clearly it is for video shooters and they tend to prefer bigger bodies and would accept it for better video.

We seem to have reached something of a 'crossroads' in terms of FF 'hybrid' cameras. It seems the tech (processors/sensor) is there to give 'stills' photographers exactly what they want - say an A7riv with a 60mp sensor capable of shooting 14 bit  'raw' at 10 frames a second. But for 'better video' we need 'more efficient processors' and/or bigger bodies - both of which 'add cost' but bring no real benefits for still photographers.

[webrunner5]

Well they are not going to be able to defy physics. So on the a7s III, or heck the next version they are going to have to change body sizes like it or not. Pros are not going to buy something that is not pretty much totally dependable.

[androidlad]

XEVC codec lineup