Sony A7R IV / A7S III / A9 II to feature 8K video, as new 60MP and 36MP full frame sensor specs leak

[Andrew Reid]

I expect Sony A7S III to shoot 8K compressed raw internal. Sony will want to sell some TVs.

Another reason it could be taking so long is that a complete revamp of the picture profiles and colour science is taking place.

I also expect it to use the electronic ND tech from the FS5.

If none of that is true then probably no point buying it aside from AF!

[Mokara]

13 hours ago, androidlad said:

Some people buy cameras with kit lenses, some buy body only. Different SKU, but same product.

A bit more details about some of the recent Sony Semicon FF sensor portfolio:

15MP Exmor R 7.52um 16Bit HS SLVS-EC 8Lane
24MP Exmor R 5.94um 14Bit HS SLVS-EC 8Lane
24MP Exmor RS 5.91um 14Bit DRAM SLVS-EC 8Lane
28MP Exmor RS 5.5um 16Bit SLVS-EC 10Lane
28MP Exmor GS 5.5um 12Bit SLVS-EC 12Lane
30MP Exmor RS 5.31um 14Bit UHS SLVS-EC 8Lane
36MP Exmor RS 4.88um 16Bit HS SLVS-EC 16Lane
42MP Exmor R 4.5um 14Bit SLVS-EC 8Lane
45MP Exmor R 4.35um 14Bit LVDS 12ch
48MP Exmor RS 4.2um 16Bit DRAM SLVS-EC 8Lane
54MP Exmor R 3.96um 14Bit SLVS-EC 8Lane
60MP Exmor R 3.76um 16Bit SLVS-EC 8Lane
100MP Exmor RS 2.91um 16Bit SLVS-EC 8Lane

Those are standard off the shelf sensors with fixed specifications. Custom made sensors have specs that are set by the client. Those sensors are different, although they may use common die elements.

But perhaps you know more about that than Sony Semicon does.

35 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I expect Sony A7S III to shoot 8K compressed raw internal. Sony will want to sell some TVs.

Another reason it could be taking so long is that a complete revamp of the picture profiles and colour science is taking place.

I also expect it to use the electronic ND tech from the FS5.

If none of that is true then probably no point buying it aside from AF!

It will still be some years before 8K panels hit the mainstream of sales (and I am not talking about low end panels here....720p is NOT mainstream). Right now 8K is only at the very high end of the market. It will take a few years for before it is commonplace in the middle range of the market, where the bulk of sales are made. For now there is no real reason for the A7SIII to shoot 8K. By the time 8K becomes standard in the mid tier we will be at the A7SIV.

It is more likely that the new camera will use high frame rates and/or a global sensor, and that is what is causing the delay. The delay is probably not be due to the sensor itself, but rather getting the new processor ready. 

[wolf33d]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I expect Sony A7S III to shoot 8K compressed raw internal. Sony will want to sell some TVs.

Another reason it could be taking so long is that a complete revamp of the picture profiles and colour science is taking place.

I also expect it to use the electronic ND tech from the FS5.

If none of that is true then probably no point buying it aside from AF!

You are a bit too hard. If no 8K internal raw then no point buying it? So if it has 4K60P 10 bit FF no crop it is not worth buying? 
Personally I could not care less about 8K. I need FF 4K60p + ibis + no crop + good AF. No camera offers that on the market at any price. 

[Andrew Reid]

It really has to differentiate itself. The market is very crowded now, compared to when the original A7S came out.

4K/120fps 10bit would be better than 8K.

But I think it'll do 8K like the leaked sensor specs and codec specs we had earlier.

[webrunner5]

I thought  have heard awhile ago that Japan has been broadcasting some 8K content? They are hosting the 2020 Summer Olympics, and that is not far away, and all the manufacturers are all wanting to film it in 8K. Surely people own some 8K TV's already?

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah I've seen the 8K TVs on sale already. They are around. There is an 8K channel in Japan on TV broadcasting already. Don't think there's much to watch on it though

[nathlas]

On 7/11/2019 at 8:18 PM, frontfocus said:

Why poor Sony? All those interesting cameras announced in the last weeks and months, no matter if they are called Sigma FP, Panasonic S1 or Fujifilm GFX100 all use Sony sensors. 

We are not quite sure who gives sensors to Sigma(for FP) and to Panasonic for Lumix S serie.

Towerjazz could be the source

[webrunner5]

Here we go again lol.

[frontfocus]

16 hours ago, nathlas said:

We are not quite sure who gives sensors to Sigma(for FP) and to Panasonic for Lumix S serie.

Towerjazz could be the source

a 24MP BSI sensor with dual gain and exactly the same characteristics as the Sony sensor? 

[Video Hummus]

TowerJazz could be printing a licensed customized Sony sensor for any manufacturer who licensed it.

[androidlad]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

TowerJazz could be printing a licensed customized Sony sensor for any manufacturer who licensed it.

TowerJazz produces the sensor for S1R.

For S1 and fp, they use IMX410CQK-C.

[nathlas]

1 hour ago, androidlad said:

TowerJazz produces the sensor for S1R.

For S1 and fp, they use IMX410CQK-C.

Do we have a source for that os it's an estimation based on the features of camera models ? 

[wolf33d]

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-teaser-for-the-july-17-announcement-shows-big-explosion-and-source-says-specs-are-crazy/

 

Time for excitement.

[Skip77]

I agree with Andrew in that the A7SIII has to stand apart.

Here's my prediction:

The A7SIII will come in alone the lines as the Lumix S1H -

• bigger body and new media cards are a must
• 4K 60fps 10 bit internal
• 4K 60fps RAW external
• Cine features
• Price $4,500
• Great AF
• Great color science

If Sony does this they exceed expectations along with pushing the retail price up. 

They would also promote this as a cine entry level camera. 

This would push back against the P4K and S1, S1H while improving quality performance.

 

 

 

 

[sanveer]

4 hours ago, Skip77 said:

I agree with Andrew in that the A7SIII has to stand apart.

Here's my prediction:

The A7SIII will come in alone the lines as the Lumix S1H -

• bigger body and new media cards are a must
• 4K 60fps 10 bit internal
• 4K 60fps RAW external
• Cine features
• Price $4,500
• Great AF
• Great color science

If Sony does this they exceed expectations along with pushing the retail price up. 

They would also promote this as a cine entry level camera. 

This would push back against the P4K and S1, S1H while improving quality performance.

 

 

 

 

I actually doubt the A7Siii will have RAW external, but will definitely have 10-bit internal which will probably be the most robust codec around, barring none. The 8-bit on the A Series is already pretty amazing. Also, I am guessing that the A7Siii will also have even better low light, higher speed 1080p (240fps?) and 4k (60p), as well as a higher megapixel count, much battery battery life and improved IBIS, and the dynamic range will be even better, probably adding another stop for video and almost 15 stops for photos, and maybe at 16-bit RAW (photo). And for autofocus, it will be second to none. 

Also, I predict that the price will be in the $3000 (or below) price range. Sony with the A7iii has shown that it wants to capture Canon and everyone else market share (the Panasonic's for video), by aggressive pricing, pushing down the prices for full frame across the entire spectrum.

I also expect the S1 to see a price correction immediately after the Announcement of the A7Siii, by about $500 or so.

[Mako Sports]

6 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I actually doubt the A7Siii will have RAW external, but will definitely have 10-bit internal which will probably be the most robust codec around, barring none. The 8-bit on the A Series is already pretty amazing. Also, I am guessing that the A7Siii will also have even better low light, higher speed 1080p (240fps?) and 4k (60p), as well as a higher megapixel count, much battery battery life and improved IBIS, and the dynamic range will be even better, probably adding another stop for video and almost 15 stops for photos, and maybe at 16-bit RAW (photo). And for autofocus, it will be second to none. 

Also, I predict that the price will be in the $3000 (or below) price range. Sony with the A7iii has shown that it wants to capture Canon and everyone else market share (the Panasonic's for video), by aggressive pricing, pushing down the prices for full frame across the entire spectrum.

I also expect the S1 to see a price correction immediately after the Announcement of the A7Siii, by about $500 or so.

180 fps continuous like the fs7 and 240fps cache recording like the fs5 would be really cool.

[mkabi]

 

16 hours ago, Skip77 said:

I agree with Andrew in that the A7SIII has to stand apart.

Here's my prediction:

The A7SIII will come in alone the lines as the Lumix S1H -

• bigger body and new media cards are a must
• 4K 60fps 10 bit internal
• 4K 60fps RAW external
• Cine features
• Price $4,500
• Great AF
• Great color science

If Sony does this they exceed expectations along with pushing the retail price up. 

 

 

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree that those specs mentioned will “exceed expectations” as it only brings it close (but not exactly) to being on par with the latest competition being the S1H - which also has 6K recording.

I don’t know... I know most of us don’t need 8K... But, I wouldn’t mind having it as an option. Look, I also know for most of us and what we do... 1080p is good enough... 4K is literally overkill for family vacation stuff (forget about cat & dog videos; vlogging for YouTube included). But, a big part of me has stories that wants to make something for Sundance and Cannes; to literally publish in those 4K+ resolution... bah... may be I’m sharing too much.

Anyway, did you guys catch the sales at BH from Sony, I know it’s dumb to insinuate from the sales something big is coming tomorrow... BUT something BIG is coming

 

[Skip77]

5 hours ago, mkabi said:

 

I respectfully disagree that those specs mentioned will “exceed expectations” as it only brings it close (but not exactly) to being on par with the latest competition being the S1H - which also has 6K recording.

I don’t know... I know most of us don’t need 8K... But, I wouldn’t mind having it as an option. Look, I also know for most of us and what we do... 1080p is good enough... 4K is literally overkill for family vacation stuff (forget about cat & dog videos; vlogging for YouTube included). But, a big part of me has stories that wants to make something for Sundance and Cannes; to literally publish in those 4K+ resolution... bah... may be I’m sharing too much.

Anyway, did you guys catch the sales at BH from Sony, I know it’s dumb to insinuate from the sales something big is coming tomorrow... BUT something BIG is coming

 

How does 8K on the A7SIII work exactly? 

Rolling shutter will be major issue since the readout will be slower moving more information. 

Sony can't do 4K at 10 bit or RAW right now so how can they just jump ahead and do that at 8K.

Sony data rates are lagging behind the others and now 8K at 100mbps is going to look like what?

How do you go from 4K to 8K? What happened to 5K or 6K?

They need to get 4K right before they make a move up. 

[webrunner5]

Isn't the A7III 6K right now, down sampling to 4K?? Same with the A6500??

[mkabi]

39 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

How does 8K on the A7SIII work exactly? 

Rolling shutter will be major issue since the readout will be slower moving more information. 

Sony can't do 4K at 10 bit or RAW right now so how can they just jump ahead and do that at 8K.

Sony data rates are lagging behind the others and now 8K at 100mbps is going to look like what?

How do you go from 4K to 8K? What happened to 5K or 6K?

They need to get 4K right before they make a move up. 

They jumped straight to 8K TVs, didn't they?

https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/22/sony-2019-tv-pricing/

Do you own Sony equipment? I certainly don't.... you want 4K at 10 bit and/or RAW? Sigma just announced the fp!!! Get it! I'm sure its cheaper than $4500.

If I'm going to switch from say Panasonic, give me an incentive.

Look... If they got 8K semi-right (every camera nowadays are touting upto 400mbps; 8K at 400 mbps, should be okay...), then 4K will be super-right... even if you don't use 8K.... set it at 4K in camera and forget about it.