Sony A7R IV / A7S III / A9 II to feature 8K video, as new 60MP and 36MP full frame sensor specs leak

[Trek of Joy]

11 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Still 100Mbps ? Wow.  Talking about holding back.

Here's Sony's problem. By making the S and R series, what happens when the A7SIII or A7SIV has to be so great at video (market specs) that the stills photography functions now become better then the A7RIII series?  

This is why the A7R IV was announced first. 

The r4 was announced first because its a higher margin body that will sell in large numbers, and they get to cash in on preorder hype. Sony has shifted from its initial release strategy and are now starting from the top down. They did the same thing with the r3. It wouldn't surprise me if the a9II was out before the a7s3 as well.

Chris

[ajay]

For anyone to think this would be an 8k camera was fooling themselves. It's not that easy to do, especially in DSLR-style bodies. Even Panasonic has announced no 8k for 2020. Look at the size of Panasonic's S1H and the use of a heat exhaust system. And that's just 6k!

[Andrew Reid]

3 minutes ago, ajay said:

For anyone to think this would be an 8k camera was fooling themselves. It's not that easy to do, especially in DSLR-style bodies. Even Panasonic has announced no 8k for 2020. Look at the size of Panasonic's S1H and the use of a heat exhaust system. And that's just 6k!

It's not about 8K

It's about all the other stuff...

2015 video specs, crap codec, crap colour, confusing menus, no 4K/60, 30p max, no 240fps, 120fps max in 1080p, no in-between resolution for 120fps despite faster sensor technology, I mean why would you want to upgrade to something which is basically the same as a 2 year old A7R III for hybrid stills/video, now that much better options exist?

For 61 megapixels alone?

[newfoundmass]

I don't think people should have expected different from Sony once it became obvious it was the A7R IV.

Like others I'm not sure that this update was really necessary, but that kinda seems to be Sony's thing right now. 

I think Sony has hit a wall when it comes to tech. I think they'll eventually figure it out, but at this point it's really the only excuse for why the A7Siii hasn't been announced that makes sense. 

If I was Nikon I'd be fast tracking development on a video centric FF camera that ticked all the boxes that people want from a A7Siii. And if I was Panasonic I'd just give in and give people PDAF on the S1H. I know it's not that easy, but what a gut punch either one of those would be to Sony! Sony left themselves wide open but no one really capitalized on it. 

[ajay]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's not about 8K

It's about all the other stuff...

2015 video specs, crap codec, crap colour, confusing menus, no 4K/60, 30p max, no 240fps, 120fps max in 1080p, no in-between resolution for 120fps despite faster sensor technology, I mean why would you want to upgrade to something which is basically the same as a 2 year old A7R III for hybrid stills/video, now that much better options exist?

For 61 megapixels alone?

I agree with you about the other stuff, but it seemed to me everyone here was giddy about 8k also (as the title of this thread implies). Sony has left video "stuff" out of other cameras too, including the A9. No Slog? That certainly was a marketing decision and I assume that Sony is saving higher video specs for their other upcoming cameras and has kept it out of their high-res mark IV. I mean how many video shooters are asking for a 60+MP that has decent video? I think everyone needs to stay patient.

[Andrew Reid]

Well we don't need to stay patient and wait 4 years for Sony.

We have the S1... S1H.

We have Fuji X-T3... X-T30 even cheaper.

Nikon Z6 bargain.

Plenty of alternatives now compared to when the GH5 / A7S II were only game in town.

Not to mention the Blackmagic Pocket 4K

[newfoundmass]

1 minute ago, ajay said:

I agree with you about the other stuff, but it seemed to me everyone here was giddy about 8k

Not me! I will resist 8K for as long as humanely possible! ?

[amanieux]

9 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

i think Sony has hit a wall when it comes to tech. I think they'll eventually figure it out

they hit no wall, they are just without competition in the sensor business so they have no incentive to innovate, things will come from newcomers, samsung was a good contender but they drop the ball 

[nickname]

I can't tell if this makes the a7s3 more or less likely. It is pure marketing not to include 10 bit and higher bitrates. But does it mean the r series will never get serious video specs, or the whole alpha series will never get it. And that the a7s was a mistake like the original 5dmkII and the video will never get beyond that. Not unlikely scenario. 

So if an a7s3 comes all it'll bring will be 4k60p 6k30p 10bit  and 400Mmbit h264? Sounds likely for Sony now that we were told to expect an explosion today and all we got was a 20mpix upgrade. 

Not that I am interested in any of these cameras. I just hope that raw on nikon z will be good so I don't have to get the sigma. 

 

[sanveer]

Sony is in a strange situation. It has sole monopoly over the entire Sony sensor catalogue, which frankly is the only sensor catalogue that matters, right now, and they're grossly abusing this monopoly. And they're trying to compete against anyone and everyone. With this sensor, it is now attempting to compete with the Medium Format cameras, especially the new Fuji 100MP.

The good news, is that Sony has so many distinct lines, that it had to ensure no single camera system is handicapped in sales, because some other line impinges upon it, with regard to its feature set. It could have easily included 10-bit internal and way better video features, but that would eat into its higher end cameras and also the A7S series. I am guessing the A7S series will get 10-bit, because it won't be as good for photos. That is also one of the reasons why Sony's smartphones have such mediocre or bad video, for the longest, despite the 10-bit promised video. 

[DBounce]

@Andrew Reid this thread's title is clearly wrong. Obviously there will be no A7S3. Sony apparently dumped it as any meaningful upgrades would have threatened their cinema line.

[ajay]

I'm sure there's going to be a series of new Sony cameras coming out in the next 6 months that will feature better video specs. There are certainly other alternatives right now that are better than Sony regarding video specs, but if you want to take full advantage of a particular system you have to buy into native glass and not adaptive glass. And that takes a major investment and makes it more difficult to switch brands/systems based on which way the wind blows.

I'm currently invested in both M43 and Sony E mount lenses for wildlife photography/videography. I'd like to switch completely to Sony but they haven't produced a camera yet that gives me at least 60p 4k. On the other hand the BMPCC 4k and Z-Cam E2 are excellent M43 cameras but for me, the form-factor sucks for what I do. I hate to keep waiting, but that's what I'll do and hope Sony eventually gets there.

I think today's announcement did hint at something. Sony's new microphone mount. I'm sure they didn't come out with these new products just for the A7RIV. There's got to be a more video-centric camera in the making.

[Andrew Reid]

12 minutes ago, DBounce said:

@Andrew Reid this thread's title is clearly wrong. Obviously there will be no A7S3. Sony apparently dumped it as any meaningful upgrades would have threatened their cinema line.

They haven't dumped it. They've mentioned it's development in interviews.

The timing is badly off though.

Far too long a wait... And I bet it won't be creative or revolutionary either.

[DBounce]

9 minutes ago, ajay said:

I think today's announcement did hint at something. Sony's new microphone mount. I'm sure they didn't come out with these new products just for the A7RIV. There's got to be a more video-centric camera in the making.

I wouldn't hold my breath for one. But on the plus side with all the new cameras coming out in the near term, I might say perhaps we don't need a new Sony video focused camera.

[Andrew Reid]

18 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Sony is in a strange situation. It has sole monopoly over the entire Sony sensor catalogue, which frankly is the only sensor catalogue that matters, right now, and they're grossly abusing this monopoly. And they're trying to compete against anyone and everyone. With this sensor, it is now attempting to compete with the Medium Format cameras, especially the new Fuji 100MP.

The good news, is that Sony has so many distinct lines, that it had to ensure no single camera system is handicapped in sales, because some other line impinges upon it, with regard to its feature set. It could have easily included 10-bit internal and way better video features, but that would eat into its higher end cameras and also the A7S series. I am guessing the A7S series will get 10-bit, because it won't be as good for photos. That is also one of the reasons why Sony's smartphones have such mediocre or bad video, for the longest, despite the 10-bit promised video. 

Sony's image sensor monopoly is very dangerous.

If I were any government with half a brain, I'd be looking at how dominant they are in that market.

At the same time it's up to the competition to step it up. Too many companies, very respectful and good ones, just seem to find it easier to buy a Sony sensor rather than develop their own. They should ask themselves what might happen if over night, Sony suddenly decides to downgrade all the customer parts and reserve much better sensors only for themselves. This is unlikely to happen, but if other companies don't develop their own sensors, how are they supposed to leap-frog Sony in image quality?

Samsung, Fuji and Panasonic are trying but Sony still providing manufacturing for their products as well... even Samsung's! (Smartphone sensors).

[wind1414]

I really hope Nikon sees their oportunity (finally) and give us the pro res raw firmware update, and internal raw etc for the upcoming high end model. They are so close to a almost perfect hybrid.

[ajay]

Enjoy!

 

[sanveer]

21 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sony's image sensor monopoly is very dangerous.

If I were any government with half a brain, I'd be looking at how dominant they are in that market.

At the same time it's up to the competition to step it up. Too many companies, very respectful and good ones, just seem to find it easier to buy a Sony sensor rather than develop their own. They should ask themselves what might happen if over night, Sony suddenly decides to downgrade all the customer parts and reserve much better sensors only for themselves. This is unlikely to happen, but if other companies don't develop their own sensors, how are they supposed to leap-frog Sony in image quality?

Samsung, Fuji and Panasonic are trying but Sony still providing manufacturing for their products as well... even Samsung's! (Smartphone sensors).

Exactly. And many others in the Sensor Market have almost stopped trying. They have made hardly any improvements in the consumer sensor market. Only the Alexas and REDs and very high end cameras seem to have improving feature sets and quality. But those sensors aren't really made for mass market. I also suspect that if Samsung wasn't the No.1 in the smartphone market for the longest, it's own sensor division would have closed down. It missed out buying Toshiba (though apparently Japanese companies usually prefer being bought by other Japanese companies, mostly because they cannot accept work cultures from other countries), otherwise it would have improved way more in its sensor roadmap.

Curiously too many people in the technology industry don't disclose reasons for not venturing towards particular technologies. Like what is the multi millions that TowerJazz is collaborating with Panaspnic on, when Panasonic is clearly sourcing almost every ILC sensor from Sony. I also suspect that the lack of PDAF on Panasonic has to do with patents and also perhaps licensing fee. Otherwise it wont be wasting so much of its resource on DFD. I also have a idea how DFD can improve substantially, but I don't want to share it with Panasonic for free ?. Especially after the terrible after sales nightmare I had with one of their cameras.

[Oliver Daniel]

18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

They haven't dumped it. They've mentioned it's development in interviews.

The timing is badly off though.

Far too long a wait... And I bet it won't be creative or revolutionary either.

Not surprising for a photo-centric camera.

Not sure of all the 8k talk. Very unlikely that will happen in an A7 soon. No one wants it or needs it, or can barely edit it. 

I think the A7SIII will come this fall with 4k60 (8bit), higher MP. Up to 4k30 10bit external. That kinda thing. 

The one thing they have going for these models is the video AF. Incredible. Everything else is beaten by Panasonic. Just need Panasonic to sort out that grey area. It’s the only missing thing now, with eND. 

Nonetheless, you’ll be able to shoot great stuff on the A7RIV, no doubt. 

[Mako Sports]

36 minutes ago, ajay said:

I think today's announcement did hint at something. Sony's new microphone mount. I'm sure they didn't come out with these new products just for the A7RIV. There's got to be a more video-centric camera in the making.

This announcement annoyed me, but I still want to wait for a Z150 successor and unicorn a7siii before I switch over to Panasonic.