liork Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 As HDR becomes a standard on 4K TV's, is it wise to buy a camera without even HLG support? Nikon Z7/Z6 does not have it for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 As long as you have a camera that can do at least 10bit and it has a Log it can do HDR 2020. kye and Mako Sports 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 8 hours ago, liork said: As HDR becomes a standard on 4K TV's, is it wise to buy a camera without even HLG support? Nikon Z7/Z6 does not have it for example. Nikon Z7 and Z6 both support HDR. They output 10 bit N-Log... I believe the Sony's support HDR also... but only 8 bit. Your computer likely does not. Some TV's do. I know my OLED supports HDR1000.... most flagship smartphones also can. The HDR workflow is more complex. I don't think I have yet created anything HDR, even though all my cameras support it. When my laptop can fully support editing 4K HDR, I will then start putting out footage in that format. Mac OS does not support it. I don't think anything they make that would be useful in post does. Granted they added HDR options to FCPX, but the display cannot show true HDR footage... even if you connect a HDR monitor, and have a GPU that supports the spec. There are, I believe two PC laptops that do. But neither of them can go anywhere near 1000 nits... let alone 2000 nits. Most laptops that are able to show HDR only meet the minimum requirements. Lenovo makes a couple models that support the middle tier of HDR. There are three HDR standards: HDR400 - Requires 400 nits brightness and 8 bit color depth - result: virtually no visible difference to non-HDR footage. But hay... It's HDR damit! HDR600 - Requires 600 nits brightness and 10 bit color depth - result: visible difference, but not extreme. It's the kind of thing a pixel peeper will notice. HDR1000 - Requires 1000 nits brightness and 10 bit color depth - result: this is the HDR you have been waiting for. In your face, something looks different sort of image. As you can see, the 8 bit cameras (Sony A7III... etc...) only meet the requirements for the entry level HDR format. Cameras with 10 bit Log profiles (Nikon N7, N6, GH5/S, X-T3... etc ) meet the requirement for all of these standards. At present, there are only two full frame hybrid cameras that can capture 10 bit log... and both of them are made by Nikon. The bottleneck is not the cameras... it's pretty much everything but the cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexTrinder96 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Some TVs can actually produce up to 4000 nits btw! (Dolby Vision, HDR 10)... I think Dolby Vision can actually do near 10000 but it seems like overkill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Seems like most 8 bit camera footage would look fine on an HDR TV. DBounce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said: Seems like most 8 bit camera footage would look fine on an HDR TV. I somehow got along prior to HDR and thought the images looked great. 3 hours ago, AlexTrinder96 said: Some TVs can actually produce up to 4000 nits btw! (Dolby Vision, HDR 10)... I think Dolby Vision can actually do near 10000 but it seems like overkill! At some point sunglasses will be needed just to watch television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, DBounce said: I somehow got along prior to HDR and thought the images looked great. At some point sunglasses will be needed just to watch television. Seems like the biggest requirement of HDR is dynamic range, and every modern mirrorless I know of does over 10 stops, even without log. I am pretty sure 10 stops is what HDR displays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 You should not buy a camera without High Dynamic Range at this point in time. As others have mentioned, most cameras today have quite high dynamic range even if they don't have log or HLG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 As some people here have already covered, any camera with a good enough codec and dynamic range can deliver good HDR results. Here's the best article on the internet detailing everything a shooter needs to know about HDR. https://www.provideocoalition.com/a-guide-to-shooting-hdr-day-1-what-is-hdr/ But as a quick reality check, HDR delivery is still fairly rare. Especially if you work in TV, low budget narrative, web series, commercials, music videos, or anything but huge budget features, you are not likely to deliver in HDR for years yet. Hold on to your masters just in case, but let's not for a second pretend that lack of HLG or Rec 2020 support in-camera is really going to hold you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick530 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I'd say you could buy one without HDR support, Though most cameras can already do HDR. The thing with HDR is that the industry is still trying to catch up a bit I'm finding. If you edit in Premiere, you can't really even grade for HDR unless you export it to Resolve (Premiere viewports only support up to 120IRE and apparently doesn't add the HDR Flag in the metadata), then there's the fact that barely anyone has HDR monitors to grade with. On top of that, there's a lot of youtube tutorials of people who think they are doing HDR and teaching how to do it when in reality they have no idea of what they are talking about. Camera body's come and go, and if you're going to buy a new camera within three years, you don't really need HDR. If you're going to keep the camera body for a long time, then it'll be worth it, But SDR won't be phased out for a long long time. Master SDR Rec 709, and then you'll have a much better-starting ground for HDR when it becomes more standardized. AlexTrinder96, DBounce and webrunner5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Yeah you have to go pretty big time into it. Camera, Monitor, Large OLEG TV etc. Not cheap. And unfortunately most people you know won't even be able to see it unless they come to your house LoL. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 I already have "HDR monitor, large OLED TV". And almost every new medium size to large new 4K TV supports HDR. And by the way, if you watch this on an OLED HDR TV, it looks great. On a non HLG screen, it looks quiet bad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 On 12/14/2018 at 4:40 AM, DBounce said: As you can see, the 8 bit cameras (Sony A7III... etc...) only meet the requirements for the entry level HDR format. Cameras with 10 bit Log profiles (Nikon N7, N6, GH5/S, X-T3... etc ) meet the requirement for all of these standards. At present, there are only two full frame hybrid cameras that can capture 10 bit log... and both of them are made by Nikon. Is worth repeating. Nikon doesn't get enough credit for this. Looking forward to the next generation of Nikon Z mirrorless! They're already at the front of the pack for their niche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 What color gamut does the Nikon Z shoot in 4K 10 bit? In Sony cameras, you can choose bt2020, but I did not see this option in Nikon menu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 6 hours ago, liork said: What color gamut does the Nikon Z shoot in 4K 10 bit? In Sony cameras, you can choose bt2020, but I did not see this option in Nikon menu. N-log is fixed at BT.2020 http://download.nikonimglib.com/archive3/hDCmK00m9JDI03RPruD74xpoU905/N-Log_Specification_(En)01.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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