Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2013 [media]http://vimeo.com/67513738[/media] The Kinefinity KineRaw S35 is the most complete debut camera I've ever seen. Packed with features, it simply doesn't feel like an S35 version 1.0. [url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10525/kinefinity-kineraw-review]Read the full article here[/url] Sean Cunningham 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreensPro Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Interesting camera. I'm assuming 30fps max? The sheer bulk of the thing puts me off, but I can see it being another good option for studio work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrad Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I prefer the texture and crispness of the KineRaw footage in that comparison, but obviously for half the price the 5D is no slouch. But really, very different tools, for different uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHines Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Such a massive camera... When the image coming out of the 5D3 is close to identical, I'll take the 5D3 any day of the week over the Kine. So is it possible to convert the 5D3 raw files straight to Cineform raw or do we still have to convert to DNG and then to Cineform raw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Watt Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 looks great, but rolling shutter problems kills it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peederj Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Thank you Andrew for testing and confirming the KineRAW jello is ~25% worse than the 5D3 RAW. And thanks to the advance scouts who gave us the skinny early countering the usual hypesters. Keep it real. The advance scouts claim the real DR of the global shutter BMC4K is poor, so that may be the next hypewave to dispel. BMD are carefully withholding any evidence so far. At least we know the ergonomics will suck. Still no ideal camera mid-2013, but lots of near-misses. Someone put it all together for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odie Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 looks like the red one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 . The advance scouts claim the real DR of the global shutter BMC4K is poor, so that may be the next hypewave to dispel. So that would put it on par with the 5D3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 3, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2013 Who are these mythical advance scouts who have shot with the BMC4K? What the hell is a hypewave? Global shutter has a trade off in image quality because it reduces the space for the actual light capturing areas of the sensor, but to me a scout is someone who goes out there in the field and sees it for his own eyes, and nobody has done that yet. Until the camera footage is out there and not some fraud video on YouTube, we won't know what the dynamic range is like. The hype for dynamic range on Blackmagic's cameras to date has been more than justified. Rather than see the Production Camera as 'hype' why not see it as the CHOICE it really is, between dynamic range on the 2.5K camera and 4K / global shutter on the Production Camera. It's a bit too much to expect 15 stops, global shutter and 4K for $4k. Canon wouldn't give us that for half a million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peederj Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 The "scouts" are people who have carefully tested the sensor being used. The sensor performance will establish the upper bounds of what the camera can produce. So that would put it on par with the 5D3? We'll see! I hope for scientifically valid, reproducible DR tests, including the use of the best gammas available. The original BMC vs. 5D3 comparison video made strong arguments about DR based on the factory picture style but carefully forgot to mention Cinestyle is a free download for the 5D3. No one should tolerate that degree of intellectual dishonesty, it's conniving and nearly fraudulent. Admit it. Now we have RAW video on the 5D3 (after a fashion), which should give the full DR (depending on how the internal downsampling for that RGGB buffered image was done...not as well as for the C-series clearly), but the 5D3 RAW converters available now aren't designed for cinema applications, so all sorts of judgments are being thrown about cluelessly re: saturation etc. Very few people defend Canon online. Very many people use Canon. Well-calibrated BS detectors may be more common in the field than marketing dept's and their dutiful fanboys hope. I hope BMD designs a camera really worth buying and using for next year's NAB. If it's still ahead on any relevant spec at that point. For now BMD is a nice feel-good story about a little company trying as hard as it can against the entrenched powers. But I'd personally rather shoot a feel-good story than shoot with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odie Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Who are these mythical advance scouts who have shot with the BMC4K? What the hell is a hypewave? Global shutter has a trade off in image quality because it reduces the space for the actual light capturing areas of the sensor, but to me a scout is someone who goes out there in the field and sees it for his own eyes, and nobody has done that yet. Until the camera footage is out there and not some fraud video on YouTube, we won't know what the dynamic range is like. The hype for dynamic range on Blackmagic's cameras to date has been more than justified. Rather than see the Production Camera as 'hype' why not see it as the CHOICE it really is, between dynamic range on the 2.5K camera and 4K / global shutter on the Production Camera. It's a bit too much to expect 15 stops, global shutter and 4K for $4k. Canon wouldn't give us that for half a million! unless someone hacks the c100...and at this point I wouldn't be surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 3, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2013 Raw from the C100 sensor. Now there's a good idea. Over to you Canon. peederj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 It's so much fun pushing your buttons peedrj. But in all honesty, I can only compare my BMCC footage to my Wife's 5D3 in stills mode. To my eyes, the BMCC DR advantage is pretty apparent when shooting in bright sunlight. Julian and peederj 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peederj Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Raw from the C100 sensor. Now there's a good idea. Over to you Canon. Yes it's called the C500, and also offers HFR 4K RAW. Total RTS package costs a bit more than the FS700 also with a RAW external recorder but offers better low-light/build/ergonomics. Costs less than similarly equipped F5 at similar build quality and ergonomics. Yet everyone repeat after me, "C500 is overpriced!" "C500 is overpriced!" :rolleyes: (Oh and bloggers, studiously make sure you NEVER mention external recorders in a camera review! Doing so completely emasculates your argument. If you ever even THINK of mentioning external recorders, instantly dismiss them as a "PITA" so your readers won't get distracted.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 3, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2013 Here we go again with more Cinema EOS propaganda from peederj. You're heading to the door, because I am frankly SICK of reading it. All sensors output raw data at various video frame rates even your iPhone. What the Magic Lantern project proves is that Compact Flash cards and cheap consumer electronics are capable of writing that data internally, without an external recorder. Yet the $25,000 C500 cannot do this, and doesn't even have an SSD slot. It's a failed product design. A version 0.5 camera. Needless to say, I'm not targeting EOSHD at people who have money to burn on a C500. It's very simple... I'm interested in what gives me the most cinematic image for under $6000, as an ownership prospect not rental. That isn't the C100 I'm afraid. C500 isn't a sensible ownership prospect nor does it have a good specs sheet. I was renting I'd go F55 or Epic. sir_danish, Giovanni Bertani and mtheory 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 C500 is overpriced! C500 is overpriced! It just is. sir_danish and Giovanni Bertani 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giovanni Bertani Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Andrew thanks again for your great coverage. Your blog is such an incredible source of independent practical advise! i am bored of these overrated japanse paied Magic Lantern critics (Read Laforet) that are just as ridiculous in their opinions as it is Canon with such piloted pricing and specs policy. The fact is that even if I am very happy of the raw I am getting now on the 5D Mark III , I feel the strange paradox of having at the same time lost all my respect for Canon. Julian, JHines, mtheory and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Genheimer Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 One question: Where in the world are the built-in NDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkitchen Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Andrew, you need to try and get your hands on a Kinotehnik LCDVFe. Not only is it one of the best looking and the least laggy evf available, it does have a mounting solution that is way better than the magic arm thing that everyone else relies on and it comes with the camera, unlike say, getting a solid camera/wooden camera evf sled. Cheers, Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_Sword_dot_PL Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I think that some correction regarding the price is needed: 5200 Euros netto is more then 6000 Euros including VAT. I am not sure about VAT in germany, here in Poland it would be 23% for this case, giving total 6400 Euros... aaaand this come closer to second hand RED self-imported from USA. And by the way, I think that the firmware-locked SSDs are not the hardest thing to crack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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