User Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I'm placing an entire folder of clips (h.264) onto the timeline, cutting out the fat, and then exporting as ProRes. Sometimes I cut the fat out of one clip in multiple places which means that in the end I now have several smaller clips from that same larger clip ALL WITH THE SAME NAME sitting on the timeline ready for export/ transcode. Upon export, I only get the last clip out of the total with the same name. Why didn't the rest of them export as individuals? I have a feeling the earlier clips from the same file with the same name were overwritten during export. Anyone have the low down on the workaround? *Edit Got it. "Use unique filenames" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Cool you found it. I have lots of those moments! Also, if you don't want to edit the clips but just want to convert all of them to Prores, then the Media Management tool under the File menu (when the Media page is selected) is a great tool. It can also export the things only on the timeline too, either the whole clips that appear on the timeline, or the same but also trimming the clips on the timeline and optionally adding extra frames to the start/end of each clip for flexibility in editing later on. User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 hours ago, kye said: Cool you found it. I have lots of those moments! Also, if you don't want to edit the clips but just want to convert all of them to Prores, then the Media Management tool under the File menu (when the Media page is selected) is a great tool. It can also export the things only on the timeline too, either the whole clips that appear on the timeline, or the same but also trimming the clips on the timeline and optionally adding extra frames to the start/end of each clip for flexibility in editing later on. Thank you Kye, for the extra insight, as always. And you know, the more I fool around with Resolve... the more it comes of as a very well thought out tool. I trust that this is the same for many. Onward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Why are you transcoding? You will loose image quality for a start and Resolve has various methods like Proxies, Optimised media and render cache to enable you to work with easier codecs in the timeline and then render the final result from the original source footage so you don't loose quality. Mark Romero 2, User and kye 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Shirozina said: Why are you transcoding? You will loose image quality for a start and Resolve has various methods like Proxies, Optimised media and render cache to enable you to work with easier codecs in the timeline and then render the final result from the original source footage so you don't loose quality. Great question.. I assumed @User was just using Resolve to generate media for use in some other software, but maybe that's not true? User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Shirozina said: Why are you transcoding? You will loose image quality for a start and Resolve has various methods like Proxies, Optimised media and render cache to enable you to work with easier codecs in the timeline and then render the final result from the original source footage so you don't loose quality. Hi Shirozina, thank you for jumping in here. The truth is that I'm living way out on the bright side of nowhere here and do not have agency that I can go to for important questions on how to best proceed while editing, so I appreciate your question. And hats off to Kye for always going the extra distance in keep this forum rolling in helpful and insightful ways. Towards your question, Kye is right in saying that the media I generated (ProRes) in Resolve is to be used in PPro. My situation was that my 2013 Macbook Pro + PPro 2014 would always edit the 18k files (mpeg2, h.264 and AVCHD) natively. But when I moved this massive doc film over to CC2019, many of the the mpeg2 and h.264 files would no long import into the project or would go offline. I spent 4 weeks trying to get to the bottom of it and finally decided to convert everything to ProRes. No issues since. But you do raise a point that on image quality loss when transcoding and wanting to retain the best image quality. With the completion of this feature doc, and in the interest of keeping the image quality up, I imagine it is just a matter of pointing the ProRes files back to the originals ('hoping' they relink) then exporting. Correct? Anything I might want to know or keep in mind in going forward? And actually, if I export a finished ProRes file from transcoded ProRes files, is there image degradation? I did some comparisons of the transcoded files to the originals and there was, ever so slightly, some differences. Most noticeably in the chroma. I used 5DtoRgb, AME and Resolve. 5DtoRgb gave the best results, but when applying just a small amount of Denoiser, the files were 'pretty much' the same. But in saying that, cinema verite/ direct cinema is largely a game of chance - even moreso in difficult places and situations - and this means one is beholden to the images captured in often 'less than ideal circumstances.' It would be good to ring the best out of our images as possible. One thing for sure is that I'm excited to move towards the next big undertaking with 'new' technology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 48 minutes ago, User said: With the completion of this feature doc, and in the interest of keeping the image quality up, I imagine it is just a matter of pointing the ProRes files back to the originals ('hoping' they relink) then exporting. Correct? It might not be very easy to do this if you've cut the files before generating proxies. When I do this for my proxy workflow in Resolve, I'm relying on the fact that each proxy file is exactly the same filename and length as its corresponding online media. How would Premiere know that Proxy A corresponds to time 0:05 - 0:15 of file A? If you have unique timecodes for each file, and have properly carried those over into the proxies, you may be able to do it painlessly, since timecode would indicate which proxies correspond to which segments of the original. I think Resolve's conform abilities might be able to handle this, no clue about Premiere. 53 minutes ago, User said: And actually, if I export a finished ProRes file from transcoded ProRes files, is there image degradation? In my experience, there won't be much degradation. It might be visible if you pixel peep, but certainly will not be immediately noticeable to the average viewer. It may be worth the cost, especially since at this point the H.264 files are really holding up your ability to finish editing. So I wouldn't worry too much about it--it's a non issue at best, and a necessary evil at worst. But I'd keep those original files around anyway, just in case you find that you need them. User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: It might not be very easy to do this if you've cut the files before generating proxies. When I do this for my proxy workflow in Resolve, I'm relying on the fact that each proxy file is exactly the same filename and length as its corresponding online media. How would Premiere know that Proxy A corresponds to time 0:05 - 0:15 of file A? Interesting, and good point KnightsFan. Thanks. And truth be told, when I transcoded the original files to ProRes... I actually cut the fat out out of 'some' of them... so as to save on hard drive space. So the time codes probably won't line up anymore with the originals. But I'm not too concerned about this right now because I only did that with material that might play a minor role in the story. But I hear you on your point and it's a good thing to keep in mind... especially if one is thinking of generating proxies after the editing starts. 27 minutes ago, KnightsFan said: In my experience, there won't be much degradation. It might be visible if you pixel peep, but certainly will not be immediately noticeable to the average viewer. It may be worth the cost, especially since at this point the H.264 files are really holding up your ability to finish editing. So I wouldn't worry too much about it--it's a non issue at best, and a necessary evil at worst. But I'd keep those original files around anyway, just in case you find that you need them. Good to have another opinion here. Thanks amigo. "... it's a non issue at best, and a necessary evil at worst. " - I like this... and am going start applying this phase to the often absurd and random events regularly unfolding in my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirozina Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 If you need to trancode for the reasons you explained I can understand this as a reasonable solution. I tried it a while back and found an obvious increase in things like banding in smooth tones like skies unless I used one of the highest quality settings with 4.4.4 chroma subsampling but the file sizes got incredibly large. ProRes is after all a lossy compressed codec. Depending on your type of subject matter and how much you need to grade this may or may not be important. User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Shirozina said: I tried it a while back and found an obvious increase in things like banding in smooth tones like skies unless I used one of the highest quality settings with 4.4.4 chroma subsampling but the file sizes got incredibly large. ProRes is after all a lossy compressed codec. Thank you Shirozina. To your point on banding, I had also done a quick test at one point with ProRes HQ and found it to be near identical to the original. Small differences started creeping in with ProRes and moreso ProRes LT. Didn't think to checking banding. Never made it to 4444 territory... seems it seems crazy to have to hike it up like this to hang onto those subtle gradations. Are there other codecs that can do things better? My limited understanding on transcoding from a highly compressed (mpeg2, h.264, avchd, etc) 8bit file to a larger 10 bit (ProRes) file sort of had me thinking that most, if not all, of the original file info would be retained within the confines of that more robust codec... and so there would be even less chance of banding. Lossy, I guess not. Somewhere way out there in all this, I still try to remember that this stuff is somehow connected to story and storytelling Thanks again folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 17 hours ago, User said: Thank you Shirozina. To your point on banding, I had also done a quick test at one point with ProRes HQ and found it to be near identical to the original. Small differences started creeping in with ProRes and moreso ProRes LT. Didn't think to checking banding. Never made it to 4444 territory... seems it seems crazy to have to hike it up like this to hang onto those subtle gradations. Are there other codecs that can do things better? My limited understanding on transcoding from a highly compressed (mpeg2, h.264, avchd, etc) 8bit file to a larger 10 bit (ProRes) file sort of had me thinking that most, if not all, of the original file info would be retained within the confines of that more robust codec... and so there would be even less chance of banding. Lossy, I guess not. Somewhere way out there in all this, I still try to remember that this stuff is somehow connected to story and storytelling Thanks again folks. People tend to transcode to Prores HQ or DNxHD HQX files as proxy media, often depending on what platform they're on (PCs can't make Prores files IIRC), but my research didn't turn up any differences in quality between the two formats, so use whichever you like. If you want way too much information about proxy formats, here you go.... https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/15/choose-the-right-codec/ https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/13/50-intermediate-codecs-compared/ The second link shows the bitrates of the various codecs and you'll see that Prores HQ and DNxHD HQX are very similar, but note that DNxHD HQ is 8-bit vs DNxHD HQX is 10-bit, and this will likely make a difference so is worth checking if you go the DNxHD route. With all things, when you make a compressed copy of something you only degrade the quality. However with high quality codecs like these the degradation will be minimal and likely not a factor in the end result. As you say, this is about story and storytelling, and I think that the ability to edit with smooth playback will add more to the storytelling than the very slight degradation of the image will detract from it. User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Solid info and break down... big thanks on this Kye. On 1/5/2019 at 10:01 PM, kye said: As you say, this is about story and storytelling, and I think that the ability to edit with smooth playback will add more to the storytelling than the very slight degradation of the image will detract from it. Absolutely. And in the case of my shifting the project forward from CC2014 to CC2019 - and that CC2019 wouldn't import much of the same media and maintain the links - just being able to edit again seems a luxury. And actually, in going forward, the great wish is to finish this film off in the next months before Adobe gets the chance to implement their latest technology in CC2020 which can be seen in full effect below. The help number is on the bottom of the unit... and when dialed, rings the hospital in which the caller was born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, User said: Solid info and break down... big thanks on this Kye. Absolutely. And in the case of my shifting the project forward from CC2014 to CC2019 - and that CC2019 wouldn't import much of the same media and maintain the links - just being able to edit again seems a luxury. And actually, in going forward, the great wish is to finish this film off in the next months before Adobe gets the chance to implement their latest technology in CC2020 which can be seen in full effect below. The help number is on the bottom of the unit... and when dialed, rings the hospital in which the caller was born. LOL.. I'e seen a few versions of that box and having the sensors when it opens detect if there's a hand nearby is great - makes it look like it has real personality! I'm guessing you'll be moving to Resolve after your current project then? ??? User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 30 minutes ago, kye said: LOL.. I'e seen a few versions of that box and having the sensors when it opens detect if there's a hand nearby is great - makes it look like it has real personality! I'm guessing you'll be moving to Resolve after your current project then? ??? Adobe is also using some of these same sensors is their top corner office guys to help them come off with more personality... ultimately it made them more, cagey. "I'm guessing you'll be moving to Resolve after your current project then?" - Yes. And though some have said that it's not actually tuned for the long form doc, I trust that Black Magic will continue to innovate. And I think I'm speaking for all of us here when I say that I appreciate disruptors. Despite their shortcomings, Black Magic seem to have the fat cats in their cross hairs... and I certainly appreciate this! I'll be keep your The Resolve / Colour Grading Resource Thread in mind going forward... thanks for that. Lights out here and hats off amigo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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