Nikon Z RAW video support

[markr041]

Shot in DX mode:

 

[markr041]

Skin tones!

 

[Super8]

On 2/24/2020 at 11:00 AM, markr041 said:

Skin tones!

 

Looks like bad color grading.

 

[markr041]

On 2/27/2020 at 10:50 PM, Super8 said:

Looks like bad color grading.

 

I agree, but then we probably disagree about what  "good" color grading is (and also how to post comments). The problem is the transformation in Edius from REC2020 to REC709 (no LUT) gives you not a good base. My criterion is reproducing what I saw (in this case). The colors are fine by that criterion *except* for the skin tones, which I just could not get right. The colors look fine to me in the other RAW video shot in the garden (above the "faces" video). If you think that the color grading in that video is "bad", then we surely disagree. Also, the WB was all over the place, and I do not think ProResRAW is like RAW from stills in that regard.

Anyway, it would be helpful to have a LUT from Nikon to go from RAW to REC709 and REC2020, and a better understanding about what ProRes RAW clips reflect in terms of camera settings.

Anyone wants a RAW clip or two to play with, I am happy to provide.

[Super8]

7 hours ago, markr041 said:

I agree, but then we probably disagree about what  "good" color grading is (and also how to post comments). The problem is the transformation in Edius from REC2020 to REC709 (no LUT) gives you not a good base. My criterion is reproducing what I saw (in this case). The colors are fine by that criterion *except* for the skin tones, which I just could not get right. The colors look fine to me in the other RAW video shot in the garden (above the "faces" video). If you think that the color grading in that video is "bad", then we surely disagree. Also, the WB was all over the place, and I do not think ProResRAW is like RAW from stills in that regard.

Anyway, it would be helpful to have a LUT from Nikon to go from RAW to REC709 and REC2020, and a better understanding about what ProRes RAW clips reflect in terms of camera settings.

Anyone wants a RAW clip or two to play with, I am happy to provide.

I apologize. I did not mean to make a blanket statement about that video and that wasn't fair.  

Did you color grade in resolve?

My complaint on color grading is if you go to 00:18 and look at the blonde lady looking at her phone.  Her skin tone looks flat and painted on. You see no definition or highlight on her face.  This looks like you color graded with power-windows and adjusted skin tones too far the wrong way, not in color but saturation, gamma and the rest.  All the skin look this way. 

Everyone in this video looks like the skin areas have been artificially adjusted.  Am I correct that you added these adjustment?

Can you provide a RAW clip?

[markr041]

On 3/3/2020 at 11:04 PM, Super8 said:

I apologize. I did not mean to make a blanket statement about that video and that wasn't fair.  

Did you color grade in resolve?

My complaint on color grading is if you go to 00:18 and look at the blonde lady looking at her phone.  Her skin tone looks flat and painted on. You see no definition or highlight on her face.  This looks like you color graded with power-windows and adjusted skin tones too far the wrong way, not in color but saturation, gamma and the rest.  All the skin look this way. 

Everyone in this video looks like the skin areas have been artificially adjusted.  Am I correct that you added these adjustment?

Can you provide a RAW clip?

I agree with you about the blonde as being the worst case, I tried hard to fix that look, but could never get it right. 

I use Windows. The only option is Edius. I had never used Edius before, so I was on a learning curve. This is what Edius does: it puts an HLG gamma curve on the ProResRAW clip and assumes it is REC2020 color, which it is. I chose  REC709 as my project, so in principle it should have made the transformation and I was looking at REC709.  This, as I noted, seemed to work ok for the garden video (with no skin). But in the video with lots of people the skins were all over the map in looks. Lighting conditions were the worst - the blonde has very bright late afternoon (very yellow) sunlight directly hitting her face, but I do not think it was clipped. WB was also odd in some cases (this was run and gun, so AWB) and I had to try and correct color. Everything was with scopes as guidance as well as my eyesight. It is the most trouble I hav had working with any non REC709 file (I have shot with Slog2, C-Log3, N-Log, Z-log! and even RAW DNG from the original BMPCC).

I can provide a RAW clip - they are gigantic, so I need a method for that. Choose a scene you would like to poke at.

[Michael1]

Mark, interesting about the WB.  Did the camera seem to do any white balancing at all?

[markr041]

Another go; edited in Edius.

https://youtu.be/L7fFftpjY5M

 

[Super8]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

That footage looks great.  How does RAW compare to 10bit N-log footage?

 

 

[markr041]

Another try, still using Edius:

https://youtu.be/oH7ECNMTWp8

 

[Leon Jones]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:33 AM, markr041 said:

Another try, still using Edius:

https://youtu.be/oH7ECNMTWp8

 

Looks nice mate. 

[gethin]

So what's the final conclusion with z6 raw. Is it worth the update? Is there much pain in grading compared to Nikon flat. I'm shooting 8bit internal at the mo

[Zeng]

On 7/6/2020 at 3:29 AM, gethin said:

So what's the final conclusion with z6 raw. Is it worth the update? Is there much pain in grading compared to Nikon flat. I'm shooting 8bit internal at the mo

My personal conclusion - it's great. Well worth. Image quality is amazing, the image "thinkness" I get is great for grading. Just shot a project were we risked using 3 different cameras to capture simultaneously. Z6 with prores RAW, bmpcc 4K and GH5. While all are realtively easy to bring close ( I use Sage's Bmpcc and GH5 to Alexa LUTs and convert Z6 prores raw to logC to apply Arri Alexa LUTs further), Z6 image stands out imo. Yes, it's pixel-binned, not pixel-for-pixel full readout, but there are only very specific situation where you'd notice some artefacts. Never in normal shooting conditions. That's my experience.

[Konrad Russegger]

Hey there. New to this forum but looking for a place to post my findings:

Seems that most other brands got in front of Nikon using the Ninja V and ProRes Raw now. 
Assimilate Scratch and FCPX would provide the possibility to change WB, ISO and exposure in Raw (befor debayering) now.

But according to a list provided by Apple the Z6 and Z7 don’t support any of these options.

It was mentioned earlier that you get the picture pixel binned.

To make ProRes RAW really usable it would need an update taking care of these issues. Getting the 1:1 5.9 k readout and all the metadata for post production.

curios if this will happen. Sad thing that it seems that the pioneer system / combination loses support.

[FHDcrew]

Is this worthwhile vs N-log on the Z6?  Has anyone tried running Prores raw from the Z6 through the CinemaDNG converter, then processing in resolve?  Is the line skipping that big of a deal?  How is the FOV compared to N-log?  I know n-log has a 1.1x crop.