I’m at CES 2019. What do you want to see?

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

And what happens when you want to take a picture at more than 8MP? Hmmm? Or maybe it's raining outside? You are comparing a dedicated video camera to a true hybrid. Before franken-rigging up a P4K, I would just reach for my Canon C200 and be done with it. The only appeal imo of the P4k would be size... which is defeated once you start rigging it. Like I said, it was interesting before Nikon decided they would stop protecting Canon's and Sony's and Panasonics cinema lines, but those days are over. BM had better come up with one hell of a plan B.

Its not a hybrid camera of course but again its an inexpensive option for anyone doing video that wants or needs pro codecs. Canon C200 is cool, but very expensive compared to a Pocket 4k. Obviously if you have the money their are better options but for the price the Pocket 4k is still awesome. 

Agree to disagree ?

I foresee Black Magic coming up with a Full Frame camera soon. I don't think their market was ever hybrid people. 

[DBounce]

28 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Its not a hybrid camera of course but again its an inexpensive option for anyone doing video that wants or needs pro codecs. Canon C200 is cool, but very expensive compared to a Pocket 4k. Obviously if you have the money their are better options but for the price the Pocket 4k is still awesome. 

Agree to disagree ?

I foresee Black Magic coming up with a Full Frame camera soon. I don't think their market was ever hybrid people. 

But not a Full Frame "Pocket". I know I'm not the only one thinking like this. The Z6 has really disrupted the market for hybrid shooters with this news. I think everyone has been put on notice. I fully expect Fuji not to be left behind. 

[mercer]

Okay the Nikon development is awesome, don’t get me wrong, but with the screen attached to the top of the camera, it’s not a pocket hybrid. It’s now a rigged up camera. And with the screen, I’m unsure how effective the IBIS will be.

With that being said, I am very intrigued by this and the Z6 is now on my short list of possible next camera purchases. Of course I have a growing fondness for the GH5s, so that’s on my short list as well. And considering my current needs, it is probably higher on the list than a ProRes Raw Nikon with an easily breakable HDMI port. 

However, I am in no rush for any camera right now, so I’m patiently waiting to see how Magic Lantern’s 5D4 development goes before I make my next move.

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, DBounce said:

With a sensor that is 1/4th the size and a body that is 2x larger... and battery life that is 1/3rd. But yeah... the P4k  “manages” 4K @60.

So what?! You have any idea about camera design and engineering...? I only didn't downvote you this time because I tend to dislike them as much as I respect you even when you drop such rubbish *Phew*

Cameras performance like dicks ain't pixel size or amp/volt/watts related ; ) Save your funds for a few batteries and stop to spread nonsense!

Too funny to still read so BS from a long time poster/camera owner like you : ) Shame I can't ask how old you are! LOL

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Okay the Nikon development is awesome, don’t get me wrong, but with the screen attached to the top of the camera, it’s not a pocket hybrid. It’s now a rigged up camera. And with the screen, I’m unsure how effective the IBIS will be.

Well, more than a 'disruptive hybrid' you end to have two camera models all-in-one then ; -)

[KnightsFan]

@androidlad jeremy says in the video that nikon hasnt decided whether to use 10 or 12 bit, or whether to use linear or log yet. According to thr prores raw pdf, it "decodes to linear" which means that it could be stored in log. In any case, the format doesnt know which the bits mean. Saying prores raw is linear is like saying hdmi carries a yuv signal... atomos and nikon can put whatever they want into that signal. @Eric Calabros seems right. At the moment they are recording 12 bit linear, but the specs of what they will release to the public are not finalized. Not that i take the 10 bit as a fact either, its still up in the air.

[ND64]

8 hours ago, androidlad said:

1. ProRes RAW is linear, it's written in the whitepaper. 12bit lossy RAW photo is irrelevant in this discussion.

2. a. Yes it's based on IMX410. Z6's rolling shutter in 4K matches A7III down to milliseconds.

2. b. ADC determines RAW bitdepth.

- I never said they're lossy RAW.

- Rolling shutter speed is not an indicator. Nikon changes a lot of things in Sony sensors.

- These sensors can use a 16bit ADC and yet output only 10bit signal. 

[zerocool22]

10 hours ago, DBounce said:

But not a Full Frame "Pocket". I know I'm not the only one thinking like this. The Z6 has really disrupted the market for hybrid shooters with this news. I think everyone has been put on notice. I fully expect Fuji not to be left behind. 

Yeah it is awesome news, and hopefully the other big brands will follow. (canon, panasonic, sony, fuji,...) But in the end it is not internal recording yet. So you are building your mirrorless/dslr up to a size(external recorder/monitor + Vlock mounts to power everything), so in most cases you could better grab an actual cinema camera. 

 

Any news on the anamorphic lens from Samyang??

[ND64]

37 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Yeah it is awesome news, and hopefully the other big brands will follow. (canon, panasonic, sony, fuji,...) But in the end it is not internal recording yet. So you are building your mirrorless/dslr up to a size(external recorder/monitor + Vlock mounts to power everything), so in most cases you could better grab an actual cinema camera. 

How many cine camera you know with 5k raw capability and how much is the price?

If Z6 sensor is capable of 12bit/30 fps output (and its a big if), then they could possibly deliver more than 5k. Here is the quick bandwidth math:

What currently going to processor: 3840x2160x30(3x10bit)x30(fps)=890MB/s

What could potentially go to HDMI:

5838x3284x12(bit)x30(fps): 822MB/s

[zerocool22]

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

How many cine camera you know with 5k raw capability and how much is the price?

If Z6 sensor is capable of 12bit/30 fps output (and its a big if), then they could possibly deliver more than 5k. Here is the quick bandwidth math:

What currently going to processor: 3840x2160x30(3x10bit)x30(fps)=890MB/s

What could potentially go to HDMI:

5838x3284x12(bit)x30(fps): 822MB/s

I dont think a lot of users want 5k, even 4k is already overkill for most users. 

[androidlad]

5 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

- I never said they're lossy RAW.

- Rolling shutter speed is not an indicator. Nikon changes a lot of things in Sony sensors.

- These sensors can use a 16bit ADC and yet output only 10bit signal. 

12bit RAW is lossy compressed, if you meant Sony 12bit RAW stills.

Nikon does change a lot of things, but not in video mode, they follow preset readout drive modes to save R&D resources.

This particular one does not have 16bit ADC. For those that do have, framerate is way below 30fps. As mentioned above, the preset readout drive modes operate in 12bit.

[Django]

Well internally Z6 already downsamples it's 4K from 6K doesn't it? What would 5K add to 4K timelines? extra crop /warp stabilizing wiggle room? DCI 4K? Not bad i guess.

It also still remains to be seen the actual benefits of ProResRaw even at 12-bit linear. What kind of DR/IQ increase are we talking about VS 10-bit log?

It's known to FS5/FS7 shooters that 12-bit raw isn't always worth the hassle VS 10-bit log, especially in low light conditions.

Not trying to cast any doubts just genuinely curious about these aspects. We're kind of on uncharted territory here (as far as MILCs).

[Dan Wake]

new osmo (no pocket, no mobile), cheap, better stabilization than pochet, better low light, 10 bit

[androidlad]

50 minutes ago, Django said:

Well internally Z6 already downsamples it's 4K from 6K doesn't it? What would 5K add to 4K timelines? extra crop /warp stabilizing wiggle room? DCI 4K? Not bad i guess.

It also still remains to be seen the actual benefits of ProResRaw even at 12-bit linear. What kind of DR/IQ increase are we talking about VS 10-bit log?

It's known to FS5/FS7 shooters that 12-bit raw isn't always worth the hassle VS 10-bit log, especially in low light conditions.

Not trying to cast any doubts just genuinely curious about these aspects. We're kind of on uncharted territory here (as far as MILCs).

There's not much difference in terms of total DR between 12bit linear ProRes RAW and 10bit log ProRes HQ.

But 12bit linear distributes DR to highlights more so we might see better highlight recovery, in certain situations, at an expense of reduced shadow detail.