Sharp's new 8K M43 camera

[KnightsFan]

15 hours ago, rockjano said:

Ok and when will we have fast enough computers to edit 8K footage???

 

That is the main and the biggest problem with 8K

It might be a year or two, but in the meantime we can use proxies, the way we did when 4k just started. I dont think computing power will be a big deal in the long term. It seems to me that 8k is happening much smoother and cheaper than 4k did.

Thats not to say that 8k is super important, but i think the tech is shaping up nicely.

[Kisaha]

31 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

It might be a year or two, but in the meantime we can use proxies, the way we did when 4k just started. I dont think computing power will be a big deal in the long term. It seems to me that 8k is happening much smoother and cheaper than 4k did.

Thats not to say that 8k is super important, but i think the tech is shaping up nicely.

A year or two, or a decade or two? 20X0 gpus are not that much better than 10X0 ones, 4K gaming is still very hard on resources and on pockets, editing/post processing also.

How it is shaping up exactly, there are some 100.000+$€£ S35 cameras, and a non working prototype that Dave open the screen with the outemost care, for not braking it! It is non existent yet.

8K is important for VR/360 in my opinion, and that will drive it considerably, I agree, but in a different sense than what we are experiencing with 1080p/4K hardware. It is going to be a whole new thing with newer range of products.

 I checked TVs this Christmas, and even 65 is the bare maximum, I can put in my house, so no 8K for me yet!

[androidlad]

19 hours ago, rockjano said:

Ok and when will we have fast enough computers to edit 8K footage???

 

That is the main and the biggest problem with 8K

Recent generations of Nvidia GPUs can edit 8K 12bit HEVC in real time. It's just software that haven't catch up to take full advantage of the hardware.

[kye]

On 1/15/2019 at 7:16 AM, webrunner5 said:

Sure it will help you out lens cost wise but. It's like this new Zeiss FF camera. How many do you think are going to buy it. There is only so many Dentists LoL. The FF arena is just becoming too damn crowded now for all of them to make a buck. Somebody is going to bite the dust hard.

I agree.  There are so many people in the market already and now Sharp throwing their hat in the ring.  I've always had a bit of a question mark around people like Sigma who have released a camera you've never heard of and you go look it up and it was released two years ago.  You wonder if they sold any at all.

On 1/15/2019 at 7:42 AM, BTM_Pix said:

To be brutually honest, nothing has come along in the mirrorless realm from any of the manufacturers (including Nikon and Canon themselves) that has come close to usurping mirrored versions for sport at that level anyway so in that respect it won't be much different.

I thought that the Sony A9 had potential as a sports shooter?  I have no experience with it personally, but I remember the Northrups saying it had a burst mode that killed the CaNikon flagship sports cameras.  I think that was when Sony released some longer lenses.

5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

8K is important for VR/360 in my opinion, and that will drive it considerably, I agree, but in a different sense than what we are experiencing with 1080p/4K hardware. It is going to be a whole new thing with newer range of products.

I agree.  In fact, here's a professional 360 camera that's 11k30 in 3D (ie, two video signals), 8k30 3D 10-bit, 5k120, h264/h265 and 12 stops of DR.

https://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-titan/

[KnightsFan]

3 hours ago, androidlad said:

Recent generations of Nvidia GPUs can edit 8K 12bit HEVC in real time. It's just software that haven't catch up to take full advantage of the hardware.

Do you mean the 20xx line or the 10 series? transcoding 4k h265 on my 1080 using hardware acceleration is lightning fast, though editing isnt as fluid.

[BTM_Pix]

9 hours ago, kye said:

I thought that the Sony A9 had potential as a sports shooter?  I have no experience with it personally, but I remember the Northrups saying it had a burst mode that killed the CaNikon flagship sports cameras.  I think that was when Sony released some longer lenses.

As I say, specs don't always translate into something breaking into the market when it comes to working professionals, particularly one thats dominated by two systems.

And 'systems' is the key word there as Nikon and Canon have not only the equipment range (including the boring stuff to do with image transmission) but also the infrastructure with service centres and on site event support to keep it all working.

Incidentally, when you use the mechanical shutter on the a9 (which you would do to minimise the banding with the ES from pitchside LED ad boards) then the a9 is a rather less than stellar 5fps.

With all due respect to the Northrups, I think they have some ideas about what a professional sports photographer needs and does without much if any practical experience of ever actually having done it.

For one thing they look far too healthy, wealthy and happy to have done it 

[androidlad]

This sensor:

[sanveer]

20 minutes ago, androidlad said:

This sensor:

Whoa !!! That sensor is a techie's wet dream. It does full pixel at 120fps. While the pixel size seems small, it's a BSI Starvis sensor (with HDR). Do I am guessing the dynamic range can't be too bad and the low light either. 

[kye]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

As I say, specs don't always translate into something breaking into the market when it comes to working professionals, particularly one thats dominated by two systems.

And 'systems' is the key word there as Nikon and Canon have not only the equipment range (including the boring stuff to do with image transmission) but also the infrastructure with service centres and on site event support to keep it all working.

Incidentally, when you use the mechanical shutter on the a9 (which you would do to minimise the banding with the ES from pitchside LED ad boards) then the a9 is a rather less than stellar 5fps.

With all due respect to the Northrups, I think they have some ideas about what a professional sports photographer needs and does without much if any practical experience of ever actually having done it.

For one thing they look far too healthy, wealthy and happy to have done it 

I agree.  

With respect to the Northrups, they have consistently pointed out that Sony was an incomplete offering, missing pro features, pro lenses, and the pro support facilities and servicing networks, but as they gradually get the whole infrastructure in place there is a chance that features like faster burst mode could actually impact what the pros choose to use.

It's easy to assume that no-one on YT can spell 'nuance', and you'd be forgiven because it is true for most, unfortunately, but I actually like the Northrups because they present facts as facts, opinions as opinions, guesses as guesses, and when they make claims they are happy to show their logic.  If you don't agree with something they say then that's normal, but you're not left feeling that anything sly or underhanded is going on.

[mirekti]

4 hours ago, androidlad said:

This sensor:

Where did you get this from?

[BTM_Pix]

46 minutes ago, kye said:

With respect to the Northrups, they have consistently pointed out that Sony was an incomplete offering, missing pro features, pro lenses, and the pro support facilities and servicing networks, but as they gradually get the whole infrastructure in place there is a chance that features like faster burst mode could actually impact what the pros choose to use.

Speaking as one of those pros, I have to say that this particular niche market will collapse in its entirety before Sony gain any significant foothold in it due to a combination of video frame extraction, rights issues and brand image control.

The burst mode is a red herring if its using electronic shutter due to the environments its being used in and even if they got it above the 12/14fps of the D5 and EOS 1DXii with the mechanical shutter its not going to be anything more than fiddling around the margins.

I have absolutely no idea why Sony came to what is a dying market in the first place and then approached it in such a half arsed fashion when they did.

Its not far off 2 years since the a9 release and there wasn't much latitude for a gradual roll out of the eco system around it even when it was released let alone now after all this time.

I can see why those such as the Northrups who don't do this for a living can look at an a9 and come to the conclusion it has everything a professional sports photographer would need and that it will surely be adopted because it does slightly more here and there but its too simplistic a viewpoint that honestly betrays a lack of understanding of the speciality.

One could even say it lacks nuance.

[webrunner5]

For weddings that thing is a god send. You can't be racking off 12 FPS in a church. At some point in time you will not be able to have newspaper, TV people doing it. It is distracting as hell. And what about wildlife. Hell I would kill for it.

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

For weddings that thing is a god send. You can't be racking off 12 FPS in a church. At some point in time you will not be able to have newspaper, TV people doing it. It is distracting as hell. And what about wildlife. Hell I would kill for it.

There is a specific new fangled term for cameras that do 24 fps with an electronic shutter though.

"Video Cameras" I think it is what they refer to them as

Joking aside, thats actually the broader point here as stills extraction will eventually prevail in all of those disciplines and sport will probably be the first to fall entirely.

To bring it back to the topic of the thread, cameras with 8K capture will accelerate that.

[webrunner5]

Oh I agree 8K frame grabs will become the norm down the road for Photography. I doubt there will even Be a Photo mode in cameras years from now. Just 8K bust mode or better.

[kye]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

There is a specific new fangled term for cameras that do 24 fps with an electronic shutter though.

"Video Cameras" I think it is what they refer to them as

Joking aside, thats actually the broader point here as stills extraction will eventually prevail in all of those disciplines and sport will probably be the first to fall entirely.

To bring it back to the topic of the thread, cameras with 8K capture will accelerate that.

So, are the sports photographer jobs turning into sports videographer jobs then?  Or will we end up with a single agency having a few cameras around the place and only employing a few people?  I know that it used to be that there was a photography team at every newspaper and it's not like that anymore, but people still want to see sports events without being there, surely?

[webrunner5]

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I agree 8K frame grabs will become the norm down the road for Photography. I doubt there will even Be a Photo mode in cameras years from now. Just 8K bust mode or better.

Speaking of Photos. Man there is some nice ones here. I can see why they were awarded.

https://***URL removed***/photography/6987116741/slideshow-wildlife-photographer-of-the-year-people-s-choice-award-shortlist?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

[kye]

29 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Speaking of Photos. Man there is some nice ones here. I can see why they were awarded.

https://***URL removed***/photography/6987116741/slideshow-wildlife-photographer-of-the-year-people-s-choice-award-shortlist?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

Indeed!

I should do some research into what makes a good sports photograph.  I've pretty much sorted the equipment I have for next season of Aussie rules football, so now I need to learn where the point the camera!

[webrunner5]

The right place and the right time applies to a lot of great shots. But obliviously you can kind of anticipate some times and avoid pure luck. It helps to have a Lot of patience also. I find photography a LOT more relaxing, and in a sense more rewarding than video. To be able to capture something you feel that is great with a singe push of a button is quite a feat to be honest. And it is much easier to share your pride and joys to others with photographs than having them try, or even want to watch a video, especially a long, drawn out one. Plus you can hang a photo on a wall. ?

[kye]

24 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The right place and the right time applies to a lot of great shots. But obliviously you can kind of anticipate some times and avoid pure luck. It helps to have a Lot of patience also. I find photography a LOT more relaxing, and in a sense more rewarding than video. To be able to capture something you feel that is great with a singe push of a button is quite a feat to be honest. And it is much easier to share your pride and joys to others with photographs than having them try, or even want to watch a video, especially a long, drawn out one. Plus you can hang a photo on a wall. ?

My goal is the best of both worlds.  I film my kid playing, so I don't have the pressure of having to get every moment or get coverage or whatever.  

I made a highlight video of his 50th game (banner, game, award, speeches), but really my brief is to get enough footage to be able to cut something together down the line as a highlights reel for the family history, and to get a few shots where we can extract a frame and hang it on the wall, as you say.  I am pretty good at anticipating the action and operating the equipment, the main challenge is that I don't know what framing or shots to try and get.  I want to capture the effort he puts in and to make him look good essentially, so studying professional sports photography and videography will help me see that.  I don't watch sports on TV or read about it, so my exposure is pretty minimal.

I tell you one thing though, using video as 24fps burst mode for photographs sure gives you a lot of options for choosing shots, and really makes you appreciate the skill in photographers who only have 5-10fps non-continuous burst-mode, let alone the film days when bursts were what happened between changing rolls of film!

Probably the biggest demand is that when the game is finished he always asks if we saw that goal / kick / or key moment, and of course, he remembers exactly what happened because he's out there putting in 110% and so you better have seen it and remember it!  He's the top tackler in his team and if the players end up in a heap then there's a good chance he's underneath most of them, so trying to get footage or stills that live up to the intensity of his experience is a tall order. 

[webrunner5]

Yeah but I will tell you something. I have been taking video for a Hell of a lot of years of my family, and my TV Job,  my advertising company, weddings, etc., 30 years easy. Now probably one main problem is I have moved so many times. But I have absolutely Zero, Nada, None, any footage of any of it left. It has all, and I mean tons of it either lost, thrown away, corrupted hard drives, hard drives that I can no longer use due to incompatible things, disappearing Thumb Drives, on and on.  I have had, owned just about every type of video media you can have other than 1" tape. That was part of the problem. Things changed a lot. But guess what I have a hell of a lot of the photographs, well my daughter has them for safe keeping. Now I am talking a span of 50 years here now. Now the negatives, not so many. They were on digital media, Ahh the problem. But good old hard copy photos seem to last. Digital media not so much. So just be cautious as hell. You might find yourself in a situation where the media you have isn't even something you own, like a 8 Track Deck. Who has one of those, or a Hi 8 deck, mini DVD, Beta SP deck, who has one of those big things laying around? But most people have photo albums, even years and years later. Something to think about. You have been warned as they say.