Kisaha Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/01/08/wheres-canon-going-with-the-eos-r-do-they-have-a-plan This is very interesting. I believe he is beeing truthful and they get "our" feedback, but not much to do anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpfilmz Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The part about not holding back on features might be believable but.....Magic Lantern RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Well maybe they just really can't produce a good enough Sensor or Processor to get the job done? Or a combination of both? They may just be that far behind, say Sony. 26 minutes ago, jpfilmz said: The part about not holding back on features might be believable but.....Magic Lantern RAW. And I can see Canon's point about not having Raw or 4K back then. It would Have to be reliable and not overheat, and it would have to last a LOT longer in duration than what ML can do recording wise. Nobody would buy a camera that can only work for a limited time, and just be totally unreliable when you need it. Now maybe they could have done 2K. I don't know. 2K is a pretty big jump up from 1080p. Kisaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpfilmz Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Well maybe they just really can't produce a good enough Sensor or Processor to get the job done? Or a combination of both? They may just be that far behind, say Sony. And I can see Canon's point about not having Raw or 4K back then. It would Have to be reliable and not overheat, and it would have to last a LOT longer in duration than what ML can do recording wise. Nobody would buy a camera that can only work for a limited time, and just be totally unreliable when you need it. Now maybe they could have done 2K. I don't know. 2K is a pretty big jump up from 1080p. on the 5D3 MK3 1080 Raw is stable and doesnt over hear the camera. hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I have never seen where you can shoot full 1080p Raw continuous? Cropped, for short times yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Magic Lantern I'd say are responsible for popularising Raw video to a wide demographic. Canon only started implementing it on the C300 mk2 (externally) and just recently internally on the C200. Reading that article seems to confirm their hybrid specs are limited by tech not just protecting cine line. EOS R kind of proves that by including a higher bitrate internal codec, Clog, 4K, DPAF & 10-bit out. Aside from the crop & RS (which are certainly sensor / tech limitations) it is basically like a mini rawless C200. I could see their upcoming high-end pro model having Canon RawLite internal or at the very least external. Especially now that Nikon have upped the ante. This Canon sensor leaked here by @androidlad could very well be the one in that higher end model: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/uploads/monthly_2018_12/CanonGS.jpg.5e3f44aaded642bf900782c3924a8325.jpg Imagine 5K Raw with Dual Pixel AF.. and Global Shutter. I'd be set for the next half-decade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: I have never seen where you can shoot full 1080p Raw continuous? Cropped, for short times yeah. Yeah the 5D3 and ML Raw shoots continuous 1080p 14bit Raw. Since I shoot narratives, I’ve never recorded super long takes but I have shot upwards of 5 minutes without any hiccups. hansel, kaylee and tweak 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Harper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: I have never seen where you can shoot full 1080p Raw continuous? Cropped, for short times yeah. I've shot continuous 1080 ML raw on a 5D with a 256GB Lexar card on occasion with no issues whatsoever. This was simultaneously on a 5D Mark II and III. tweak, mercer and Mark Romero 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 hours ago, webrunner5 said: Nobody would buy a camera that can only work for a limited time, and just be totally unreliable when you need it. Um... people buy sonys lol. They still overheat recording 4k, saw tests and it looks like you can't even record an interview with an a7iii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 hours ago, mercer said: Yeah the 5D3 and ML Raw shoots continuous 1080p 14bit Raw. Since I shoot narratives, I’ve never recorded super long takes but I have shot upwards of 5 minutes without any hiccups. Yep. Honestly my Canons often over heat shooting in direct sun here in AUS on a hot day shooting stock firmware. When I shoot Raw they don't get noticeably any hotter than otherwise and if we are to believe the ML team; less processing with Raw should actually generate less heat. Canon don't include Raw because they don't want to and if we are to seriously believe they can't (and can't do it reliably) but a team of part time hackers can reverse engineer their whole system to do it... I don't know whether I should really support such ignorance. My 2cents. hansel and mercer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Django said: Reading that article seems to confirm their hybrid specs are limited by tech not just protecting cine line. I don't buy it, you know why? They withheld CLOG/Zebras/Peaking etc from the 1DX II. They also have disabled 10bit out for 1080p on the EOS R, you can only do it in the awful 4k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliKMIA Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 8 hours ago, jpfilmz said: The part about not holding back on features might be believable but.....Magic Lantern RAW. Plus, it doesn't explain why there's never been any Zebra, Peaking, or Log on 1DxII while it's been added on the 5D4, etc. The C200 doesn't have an intermediate codec option and external recording is limited to 2K. This is pure crippling and has nothing to do with hardware. As for the Tech versus video, of course you can't create a descent video camera if you design it with a shitty processor. Plus Canon cameras are always under-equipped but overpriced like the EOS-R. Most likely this 8K thing means Canon will come up at some point with a C300 or C500 R that will cost $10-$15k+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Snowbro said: I don't buy it, you know why? They withheld CLOG/Zebras/Peaking etc from the 1DX II. They also have disabled 10bit out for 1080p on the EOS R, you can only do it in the awful 4k. Why would they withhold those features on their top of the line flagship? Maybe C-Log breaks the crazy fast AF as it does on the Nikon Z? S-Log was also absent from the top of the line Sony A9.. They are action sports optimized stills camera. Zebras/Peaking doesn’t make so much sense on such a DSLR (no EVF / Tilt screen). As for no 10-bit out FHD on EOS R, now that I agree is a strange omission. I hope a firmware upgrade changes that. Wish those IR editors had pushed Canon on the subject.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 They openly admitted to crippling the m50, because it wasn't expensive enough in their eyes for 4k & dpaf. Dpaf is not affected by clog, contrast af possibly could be, but that is not what it uses. Then the c200 omitting 10 bit 4k internally, but can do 12 bit raw internal? Come on, they are lying; why would any company openly admit they are bleeding customers? (M50 comment was surprising) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 No company is going to say its holding back features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Meh. Segmenting a camera (by its specs/tech) into a range of products is neither surprising nor exclusive to Canon. Take Sony: FS5 can only do 10-bit FHD at 50mb max & 4K 8-bit 100mb max using XAVC-L. It can output 12-bit raw signal direct via SDI. FS7 can do 10-bit 4K60p intraframe at 600mb using XAVC-I. But to record Raw you'll need the $2000 XDCA extension unit. So you also have raw paradoxes there too (where an inferior product in the range can't do 4K 10-bit internally but can do easier/cheaper raw & slo-mo). mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 My issue with Canon, is when they do it to their flagship hybrid that costs $6k+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Well again Sony also left out S-Log in their directly competing $4.5K+ flagship. oh and that one couldn't even shoot 4K60p. At some point you gotta let go though.. 1DX2 came out in 2016. Give Canon a break. it's still untouched in a few areas actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Django said: Well again Sony also left out S-Log in their directly competing $4.5K+ flagship. oh and that one couldn't even shoot 4K60p. At some point you gotta let go though.. 1DX2 came out in 2016. Give Canon a break. it's still untouched in a few areas actually. That might change when Nikon comes out with the new D5s, or D6 what ever they call it. Looks like Nikon is going hog wild on the video side. Fuji also. I don't think Canon can afford now to hold back on anything going forward. Nikon might hand their ass to them. This is getting damn interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 12 hours ago, webrunner5 said: That might change when Nikon comes out with the new D5s, or D6 what ever they call it. Looks like Nikon is going hog wild on the video side. Fuji also. I don't think Canon can afford now to hold back on anything going forward. Nikon might hand their ass to them. This is getting damn interesting. Well competition is healthy so I'm all for it.. but you can bet 1DX3 will be no slouch in the video department either. It may be their final 1DX DSLR and they'll give it everything. Especially with the Tokyo 2020 Olympic spotlights around the corner. As for Nikon going "hog wild on the video side"..yes and no. All they've done so far is hand over the keys to their HDMI protocol to Atomos. Fuji did it internal on their own. You'll need to go external for Log & ProRes Raw on the Z. Internally its really an A73 (they share the same sensor) with nicer body & color science but with worst AF & no log. Like I said earlier elsewhere though, I'm more concerned with lens line-up when looking at a system and the ecosystem when looking at video. In both cases, whether in current Native/Cine glass or cine bodies upgrade paths.. I see Canon/Sony with a clear advantage over Fuji/Nikon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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