5K RAW 24p video for $150 - Magic Lantern making great strides on Canon EOS M

[webrunner5]

Yeah but if you Have to lock off every shot you do that is pretty damn limiting. You might as well use it as a Photo camera, which by the way it sort of is. I was thinking of buying one, but with all the latest evidence this thing seems to have a damn under powered processor in it, no surprise. So that means to me it is Never going to be so hot when it is limping along even in a format lesser than1080p.

 

[Nikkor]

47 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but if you Have to lock off every shot you do that is pretty damn limiting. You might as well use it as a Photo camera, which by the way it sort of is. I was thinking of buying one, but with all the latest evidence this thing seems to have a damn under powered processor in it, no surprise. So that means to me it is Never going to be so hot when it is limping along even in a format lesser than1080p.

 

the 1080p mode works fine, it's the 4K mode that has terrible rolling shutter.

[Emanuel]

RS will always be critical for those who use their camera as a kite. Not a big issue to me. Pinkframes instead, yes, so I wonder how often they pop up? How to workaround and have them under control?

[Brian Williams]

 

I'm not posting this bc I'm proud of it, but this is something I shot last night with 1x3 1504x1920... I got the viltrox focal reducer and the Tamron 45mm VC 1.8, in hopes of lessening the rolling shutter... Don't think it helped, maybe a little less of the vibrations, RS is definitely still there; yes, I know the walking shots were doomed from the get-go, I won't blame that on the camera. (Sometimes there are also still micro vibrations- I assume the VC is working bc it has a switch on the lens, can't image the adaptor somehow is disabling it?)

This whole thing has been pretty incredible to play with, and what Magic Lantern has been able to do is pretty incredible as well, but I think I may let go of this... aside from the RS, I just can't get past the live view... So many of these shots are out of focus because you can't really see much with live view... If you set to Framing as I do, the fps in the view gets really slow when recording and it's really really hard to follow the focus that way. If you set to real-time, the stretched image you see isn't even the center of the image so it's really kind of useless. I guess I might be ok with the 1080 settings (RS is a lot more manageable) but hate that its just short of HD, don't like having to scale up... if HD is all I'm after, I'm almost tempted to go and buy a used BM Pocket for $400, had that camera for years and loved it. 

This is the second time I've gone out and bought an EOS-M bc of ML (last time was last Aug, back when 1080mv was the latest development)... Maybe I'm too impatient but I doubt the liveview will ever get better. If it does, maybe I'll buy the camera a third time and come back to it.

 

BTW, no pink frames for me at all with this shoot, and sd_overclock was on.

[Emanuel]

This ML tool reminds me when 35mm film, not only IQ and grain. Priceless. One of a kind, today.

Also how to properly shoot with.

Where any camera movement had to be previously planned in order to not waste film/lab fees/money.

Pardon my lack of modesty now if so but, obviously, people only used to shoot video actually have no idea what does mean.

- E : -)

[Brian Williams]

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

This ML tool reminds me when 35mm film, not only IQ and grain. Priceless. One of a kind, today.

Also how to properly shoot with.

Where any camera movement had to be previously planned in order to not waste film/lab fees/money.

Pardon my lack of modesty now if so but, obviously, people only used to shoot video actually have no idea what does mean.

- E : -)

Hard to shoot properly when you can't really see through the viewfinder though, no?

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

This whole thing has been pretty incredible to play with, and what Magic Lantern has been able to do is pretty incredible as well, but I think I may let go of this... aside from the RS, I just can't get past the live view... So many of these shots are out of focus because you can't really see much with live view... If you set to Framing as I do, the fps in the view gets really slow when recording and it's really really hard to follow the focus that way. If you set to real-time, the stretched image you see isn't even the center of the image so it's really kind of useless. I guess I might be ok with the 1080 settings (RS is a lot more manageable) but hate that its just short of HD, don't like having to scale up... if HD is all I'm after, I'm almost tempted to go and buy a used BM Pocket for $400, had that camera for years and loved it.

Yeah that is what I am thinking of doing is buying a BMPCC. Just as small, and a little less finicky LoL. But on paper with even a better looking output. Just seems the way to go. Although the M50 seems tempting also with a speedbooster, but you can buy a PK4 for nearly that, or a C100. So not so hot an idea at that cost. But I like the idea of the smaller camera.

[tweak]

4 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

 

I'm not posting this bc I'm proud of it, but this is something I shot last night with 1x3 1504x1920... I got the viltrox focal reducer and the Tamron 45mm VC 1.8, in hopes of lessening the rolling shutter... Don't think it helped, maybe a little less of the vibrations, RS is definitely still there; yes, I know the walking shots were doomed from the get-go, I won't blame that on the camera. (Sometimes there are also still micro vibrations- I assume the VC is working bc it has a switch on the lens, can't image the adaptor somehow is disabling it?)

This whole thing has been pretty incredible to play with, and what Magic Lantern has been able to do is pretty incredible as well, but I think I may let go of this... aside from the RS, I just can't get past the live view... So many of these shots are out of focus because you can't really see much with live view... If you set to Framing as I do, the fps in the view gets really slow when recording and it's really really hard to follow the focus that way. If you set to real-time, the stretched image you see isn't even the center of the image so it's really kind of useless. I guess I might be ok with the 1080 settings (RS is a lot more manageable) but hate that its just short of HD, don't like having to scale up... if HD is all I'm after, I'm almost tempted to go and buy a used BM Pocket for $400, had that camera for years and loved it. 

This is the second time I've gone out and bought an EOS-M bc of ML (last time was last Aug, back when 1080mv was the latest development)... Maybe I'm too impatient but I doubt the liveview will ever get better. If it does, maybe I'll buy the camera a third time and come back to it.

 

BTW, no pink frames for me at all with this shoot, and sd_overclock was on.

That image is f#cking lovely! Man every time I see MLRaw I'm impressed, I need to shoot more with it again.

 

[mercer]

4 minutes ago, tweak said:

That image is f#cking lovely! Man every time I see MLRaw I'm impressed, I need to shoot more with it again.

 

Yup, on occasion I think about buying another camera until I look at my footage.

As far as the eos-m and @Brian Williams video... I totally agree. It looks great. In some ways, the camera seems like a fun experiment in impromptu filmmaking. 

[Emanuel]

yeah yeah but, seems there's no way how to properly monitoring... That is, the basics, framing. Have I misunderstood it? Please tell me so...

@meudig

@Brian Williams

@Nikkor

@Alpicat

@ZEEK

[kye]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Yup, on occasion I think about buying another camera until I look at my footage.

I completely agree that ML footage looks wonderful, but for me so does all RAW footage.

Do you notice a big difference between your 5D ML footage and other RAW cameras?  or is it just that RAW loveliness?

[Emanuel]

RAW coupled to color depth... which requires proper bit rate ; -)

[mercer]

1 hour ago, kye said:

I completely agree that ML footage looks wonderful, but for me so does all RAW footage.

Do you notice a big difference between your 5D ML footage and other RAW cameras?  or is it just that RAW loveliness?

All Raw looks pretty good to me but there is just something special about 14bit FF Raw with that little punch from Canon’s color filter array.

[heart0less]

Damn you, guys.. 

I just bought an used 5D Mk II because of you.. 

[kye]

17 minutes ago, heart0less said:

Damn you, guys.. 

I just bought an used 5D Mk II because of you.. 

You're welcome!!

???

2 hours ago, mercer said:

All Raw looks pretty good to me but there is just something special about 14bit FF Raw with that little punch from Canon’s color filter array.

I figured there might be some extra love in there for Canon.

Is Canon + ML the only hybrid setup that does 14-bit?  I never focused on what bit-depth the BM cameras operated on, or what external setups could offer.

I remember those 10-bit vs 12-bit vs 14-bit conversations we had where most liked 12-bit over 10, and some even preferred 14 over 12.

[Alpicat]

6 hours ago, Emanuel said:

yeah yeah but, seems there's no way how to properly monitoring... That is, the basics, framing. Have I misunderstood it? Please tell me so...

That's true and is a big consideration if you're thinking about getting this camera. In general the eos m has never been very usable for video and things haven't really changed that much. If you want a camera that's easy to use - i.e. with proper framing - you'd be better off with a bmpcc or something else. With the eos m you're basically shooting partially blind in some of the modes. 

I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but in all the raw modes on the eos m you have a choice between shooting with a real time preview that is cropped, sometimes not correctly centred and in some cases stretched vertically by ~ 2x or more extreme in the case of 1x3 mode (the preview looks like uncorrected anamorphic with the bottom half of the frame not displayed)... or you can shoot with correct framing preview but then the display is very pixelated and plays at slow frame rate. It's hard to shoot anything in this mode, unless it's a static shot. I only ever use this mode briefly to check framing before I start shooting.

The exception to all the above is movie crop mode which we'd spoken about in the previous eosm thread - that mode provides a fully correct preview, but the crop is 4.66x (approx 1/2 inch sensor size) and max res is 1800x1024. Here's an example video using that mode: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/26577-is-the-eos-m-the-digital-super-8-camera/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-227334

 

[mercer]

3 hours ago, kye said:

I figured there might be some extra love in there for Canon.

Is Canon + ML the only hybrid setup that does 14-bit?  I never focused on what bit-depth the BM cameras operated on, or what external setups could offer.

I remember those 10-bit vs 12-bit vs 14-bit conversations we had where most liked 12-bit over 10, and some even preferred 14 over 12.

Yeah, I am pretty sure it is the only hybrid that does 14bit. But to be fair, ML is the only option for any hybrid photo/video Raw... especially internal. Otherwise, you’re looking at the Alexa for 14bit. And I think ProRes Raw from Zenmuse X7 may be 14bit but not lossless.

[ZEEK]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

All Raw looks pretty good to me but there is just something special about 14bit FF Raw with that little punch from Canon’s color filter array.

Agree. My favourite ML Fullframe camera is definitely the Canon 6D. The footage it produced was un-earthly, especially when paired with Zeiss lens. 

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, Alpicat said:

That's true and is a big consideration if you're thinking about getting this camera. In general the eos m has never been very usable for video and things haven't really changed that much. If you want a camera that's easy to use - i.e. with proper framing - you'd be better off with a bmpcc or something else. With the eos m you're basically shooting partially blind in some of the modes. 

I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but in all the raw modes on the eos m you have a choice between shooting with a real time preview that is cropped, sometimes not correctly centred and in some cases stretched vertically by ~ 2x or more extreme in the case of 1x3 mode (the preview looks like uncorrected anamorphic with the bottom half of the frame not displayed)... or you can shoot with correct framing preview but then the display is very pixelated and plays at slow frame rate. It's hard to shoot anything in this mode, unless it's a static shot. I only ever use this mode briefly to check framing before I start shooting.

The exception to all the above is movie crop mode which we'd spoken about in the previous eosm thread - that mode provides a fully correct preview, but the crop is 4.66x (approx 1/2 inch sensor size) and max res is 1800x1024. Here's an example video using that mode: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/26577-is-the-eos-m-the-digital-super-8-camera/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-227334

 

Still waiting for listening the other ML EOS M shooters... Thanks for your input.

One of the more interesting modes looks like the 1x3 binning 2.35:1 1504x1920. How's the situation there as far as 'framing conditions' (funny to use the expression : D)  concerns?

The other mode is the one used by @ZEEK, but he's here and hasn't added anything on topic...

To be able to have half of the frame between left and right limits (with the upper half of the frame at least) can result in a workaround. That is, if we get used to it. Especially if we consider the price to pay ending as highest as possible resolution where we may raise and park the bar.

Stretched vertically for binning modes doesn't sound so bad under the circumstances in the end.

To be able of an accurate framing preview even pixelated (a trouble for focusing but we can alternate and mix both preview routes or no?) before start shooting can be a workaround for static shots, we can just fairly guess. Or where you have to put the framing borders inside (y)our head.

Does AF work at least?

And what about HDMI for external monitoring?

[meudig]

@Emanuel My experience coincide with what @Alpicat has mentioned above, with an addition to me having had similar problems with the crop mode as well, albeit perhaps in an older version of ML.

The problem of a stretched preview is easy to notice and all you have to do at that point is to reboot the camera and hope for it to be properly initialized. The crop and decentering can be harder to notice, but what you can do is to frame up your shots in regular video mode, before enabling ML - a method that works to combat decentering, but is a lot trickier regarding crop.