EOSHD Opinion - The Sony A6400 is an absolute turkey

[androidlad]

Quote

Regarding the removal of 29:59 recording limit:

Sony said in a press reception that they are not able to retrospectively remove the recording limit on older cameras as it would require new serial numbers per EU law.

 

[tweak]

7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

'O ye, of little faith' LoL.

I just don't expect Sony has changed their dated LSI or heat sinks (especially not on a budget model).

[webrunner5]

Field Test of the A6400.

 

[androidlad]

16 hours ago, tweak said:

I just don't expect Sony has changed their dated LSI or heat sinks (especially not on a budget model).

They upgraded the sensor to IMX293 with 20nm lithography and new readout circuitry, only the analog photosites remain unchanged.

[Mokara]

On 1/18/2019 at 1:34 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

I don't know at least for me the jello effect is less noticeable on wider lenses. I do get the point on barrel distortion. 

Stabilization definitely helps alleviate the issue in many circumstances but even if the camera is on a tripod say you are shooting a train passing or really anything moving, the effects of the rolling shutter will be noticeable. Not that most people are shooting trains passing by frequently. ?

The issue will be most noticeable with cheap wide angle lenses with objects relatively close to the camera and a distant background. The sort of thing people would do when vlogging. Small movements allow the camera to "see around" an object, and that causes the background to look like it is wobbling. The further away from the lens the foreground subject is, the less of an issue it will be. It is a problem with pretty much any sort of stabilization that relies on moving elements of the optical system.

You pretty much need to keep the camera steady to avoid it.

22 hours ago, tweak said:

I just don't expect Sony has changed their dated LSI or heat sinks (especially not on a budget model).

Since the camera is using the latest focusing system, and since that is a property of the LSI, it absolutely has a new LSI.

[thebrothersthre3]

27 minutes ago, Mokara said:

The issue will be most noticeable with cheap wide angle lenses with objects relatively close to the camera and a distant background. The sort of thing people would do when vlogging. Small movements allow the camera to "see around" an object, and that causes the background to look like it is wobbling. The further away from the lens the foreground subject is, the less of an issue it will be. It is a problem with pretty much any sort of stabilization that relies on moving elements of the optical system.

You pretty much need to keep the camera steady to avoid it.

 

Yeah when I said stabilization I meant like a tripod or gimbal. 

If this can do 4k without a time limit that is pretty awesome. 

[tweak]

6 hours ago, androidlad said:

They upgraded the sensor to IMX293 with 20nm lithography and new readout circuitry, only the analog photosites remain unchanged.

Good to hear, lets see how it goes!

[Andrew Reid]

7 hours ago, androidlad said:

They upgraded the sensor to IMX293 with 20nm lithography and new readout circuitry, only the analog photosites remain unchanged.

But it still has the same slow rolling shutter?

It seems like the old sensor to me, but a new cooler running LSI.

[tweak]

30 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

But it still has the same slow rolling shutter?

It seems like the old sensor to me, but a new cooler running LSI.

The plot thickens.

[androidlad]

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

But it still has the same slow rolling shutter?

It seems like the old sensor to me, but a new cooler running LSI.

Sony never use multiple column parallel ADCs for video, only for stills. It's always single ADC for video mode readout, hence the rolling shutter. A9 is a prime example.

[BasiliskFilm]

If the A6400 has ninja focussing skills then it could be a niche product for wildlife and action stills photography. More reach than the A9  too. A big upgrade at the price point, but presumably there will be a (more expensive) video-focussed release  with stabilisation and less rolling shutter, which would presumably require a next generation sensor.

[thebrothersthre3]

4 hours ago, BasiliskFilm said:

If the A6400 has ninja focussing skills then it could be a niche product for wildlife and action stills photography. More reach than the A9  too. A big upgrade at the price point, but presumably there will be a (more expensive) video-focussed release  with stabilisation and less rolling shutter, which would presumably require a next generation sensor.

A7000 baby, its coming! No way Sony is going to give Fuji a pass on the best APSC camera. 

[Andrew Reid]

10 hours ago, androidlad said:

Sony never use multiple column parallel ADCs for video, only for stills. It's always single ADC for video mode readout, hence the rolling shutter. A9 is a prime example.

That doesn't seem right to me. There would be no way of achieving a 6K full pixel readout for video without multiple column ADCs and Sony have advertised the feature before, as have others. It's pretty standard in 2019.

IMX293 is the wrong sensor code for the A6400. Google it.

[androidlad]

36 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

That doesn't seem right to me. There would be no way of achieving a 6K full pixel readout for video without multiple column ADCs and Sony have advertised the feature before, as have others. It's pretty standard in 2019.

IMX293 is the wrong sensor code for the A6400. Google it.

So explain to me how 6K full pixels are readout? It's literally one ADC scanning line by line.

IMX293 info has not been made public yet, Google can't tell you anything.

[Mokara]

23 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

But it still has the same slow rolling shutter?

It seems like the old sensor to me, but a new cooler running LSI.

The a6400 has more CDAF points than the a6300, so it is a new sensor. Basic acquisition specs however may be similar.

On 1/21/2019 at 1:21 PM, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah when I said stabilization I meant like a tripod or gimbal. 

If this can do 4k without a time limit that is pretty awesome. 

Micro focus hunting (even thought the overall image itself appears to be in focus) will do the same thing, since adjusting the focus point changes perspective slightly as well. You might not be aware that focus breathing is happening if you are using stabilization such as DIS or (possibly) IBIS, and that would create distortions that don't superficially appear to be lens related. Like I said, a lot of these things have to do with the quality and nature of the lens being used rather than the camera itself. RS will make things worse of course, since it will amplify the distortions.

[thebrothersthre3]

48 minutes ago, Mokara said:

 

Micro focus hunting (even thought the overall image itself appears to be in focus) will do the same thing, since adjusting the focus point changes perspective slightly as well. You might not be aware that focus breathing is happening if you are using stabilization such as DIS or (possibly) IBIS, and that would create distortions that don't superficially appear to be lens related. Like I said, a lot of these things have to do with the quality and nature of the lens being used rather than the camera itself. RS will make things worse of course, since it will amplify the distortions.

Yep I've seen that on other cameras, though pretty much shot all my A6300 stuff on manual glass tho.

[aldolega]

9 hours ago, Mokara said:

The a6400 has more CDAF points than the a6300, so it is a new sensor. Basic acquisition specs however may be similar.

CDAF is software-based, nothing to do with the sensor physically.

[androidlad]

15 hours ago, Mokara said:

The a6400 has more CDAF points than the a6300, so it is a new sensor. Basic acquisition specs however may be similar.

Micro focus hunting (even thought the overall image itself appears to be in focus) will do the same thing, since adjusting the focus point changes perspective slightly as well. You might not be aware that focus breathing is happening if you are using stabilization such as DIS or (possibly) IBIS, and that would create distortions that don't superficially appear to be lens related. Like I said, a lot of these things have to do with the quality and nature of the lens being used rather than the camera itself. RS will make things worse of course, since it will amplify the distortions.

A6400 has a base ISO of 500 in Slog2/3, this points to a refresh in conversion gain design. A CMOS sensor can be considered as having two layers - analog (photosites) and digital (ADC and readout circuitry). In this case A6400 kept the analog layer unchanged, but refreshed it with 20nm lithography and redesigned the digital layer.

[Mokara]

On 1/22/2019 at 11:34 PM, aldolega said:

CDAF is software-based, nothing to do with the sensor physically.

The sensor returns information from specific pixels to the LSI for AF purposes, so it cannot be the same sensor if it has more points. 

[Adam Kuźniar]

That jello is absolutely disgusting