thebrothersthre3 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: The NX1 sucks ass also but people seem to be able to make them work, and love them. One of the reasons I didn't purchase the NX1. Too bad they never came out with an NX2. Still better rolling shutter than the A6300? webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Yurolov said: I find it funny how people on here think the average consumer could care less about RS but for some reason they care so much about 4k, which codec they can't even edit on their laptops. For the average person the m50 is a much better option: the price is more appealing, has a proper screen, more aesthetically pleasing, better brand name recognition, and ergonomically a treat with that nice touch screen interface. Most people watch youtube (I'd hazard a guess at around 80%) on their phone, for which 480p is good enough. I used to own a a6300 and sold it. That thing was so sharp you could see every pore and blemish on your face. I put it on 1080p and - ah - so much better for my appearance haha. I don't see vloggers spending the extra money over a m50 - it would be a stupid decision. 100%. I think some people here are living in a 4K dream land. No Vlogs (or nearly any content I watch) on YT is available in 4K and I can guarantee 99% of people who are buying an entry level Vlogging camera aren't going to be editing and uploading in 4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 hours ago, tweak said: Vloggers want reliable autofocus unfortunately. I'd agree a G85 is a much nicer camera otherwise, but it's falls short in the one key feature in which most vloggers care about most. I think for most blogging use the G85's auto focus is more than adequate, though I don't use it for that purpose. I've used it in far more difficult situations than almost any vlogger would and I've been satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Mokara said: This market segment is aimed at consumers, not vloggers. You might use them for vlogging, but that is not what drives the sales. Modern Sony AF is very good as well. The main differences IMO likely come from how responsive the lens is, not the camera itself. People might not vlog much in 4K, but so what? Not everything these cameras are used for is vlogging, and I would say that most video shot with them is NOT vlogging. In a consumer camera it would be for better home video than what you otherwise might get from a cell phone, and for that the Sony is going to beat the Canon. You probably have the peaking tolerances set incorrectly. Sony marketing seems pretty Vlog heavy right now... I don't doubt this camera will sell regardless, but also don't underestimate the m50s sales, it's already been one of Canons best selling entry cameras in a long time (especially in Japan and China). If I wasn't Vlogging I wouldn't even consider an 6400 anyway, lots of better options out there as Andrew has already said. The overheating aspect turns me off the a6000 series instantly, living in AUS you film like 5mins or less and your camera is toast. GH4/5 basically never overheat. I need a camera that works reliably (also where the m50 gets some credit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: The NX1 sucks ass also but people seem to be able to make them work, and love them. Interesting to see Canon got their 4k RS in the 1D bodies down to 14.7ms (24/60fps), from 25ms on the 1DC. That would be cool if they get to single digits in the next one that should release within a year. I think the 5D iv & Eos R have around 40? lol, I still think the worst one I have experienced was the a6500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: I think for most blogging use the G85's auto focus is more than adequate, though I don't use it for that purpose. I've used it in far more difficult situations than almost any vlogger would and I've been satisfied. Well I gave my partner the GH5 with updated firmware and she wasn't stoked on the AF. Personally I never use AF and the times I have (shooting sports) it wasn't real reliable. It works but those moments where it doesn't are pretty jarring (in comparison to DPAF which almost never lets you down). FYI I shoot majority of time with GH5/ 5Diii, occasionally with Red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, tweak said: Well I gave my partner the GH5 with updated firmware and she wasn't stoked on the AF. Personally I never use AF and the times I have (shooting sports) it wasn't real reliable. It works ut those moments where it doesn't are pretty jarring. The GH5's AF has really, really improved since the last firmware. Even Sony / Canon users have taken note: A big part of working with the G85's auto focus is learning how it acts, since it's not perfect. Once you kinda figure it out you get better results. You really though don't even need to do that for most vlogging work. Set it up, connect your phone, touch your face to focus and you're really good to go. I don't know if vloggers just don't understand how easy it is with the phone app, given how crappy the Sony phone apps are, but I'm able to do this during shoots with the Panasonic app while across the room working on something else. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, newfoundmass said: The GH5's AF has really, really improved since the last firmware. Even Sony / Canon users have taken note: A big part of working with the G85's auto focus is learning how it acts, since it's not perfect. Once you kinda figure it out you get better results. You really though don't even need to do that for most vlogging work. Set it up, connect your phone, touch your face to focus and you're really good to go. I don't know if vloggers just don't understand how easy it is with the phone app, given how crappy the Sony phone apps are, but I'm able to do this during shoots with the Panasonic app while across the room working on something else. Yep, as I said it was with updated firmware. It has improved for sure (before it was useless IMO), but it's not DPAF level. The type of stuff where it falls apart is when you're walking around holding the camera, moving into shadows and then bright light whilst turning the camera to show people things then turning it back to your face. DPAF can deal with this, G85/GH5 can not. This is a pretty regular 'Vlog" situation. Trust me, I would have bought a G85 if I could! I like Pana, I own GH5's already it would have made way more sense for me ? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, Snowbro said: Interesting to see Canon got their 4k RS in the 1D bodies down to 14.7ms (24/60fps), from 25ms on the 1DC. That would be cool if they get to single digits in the next one that should release within a year. I think the 5D iv & Eos R have around 40? lol, I still think the worst one I have experienced was the a6500. 5D4/EOS-R RS in 4K is 31ms. Terrible but yeah not quite A6xxx bad. Canon supposedly has a GS FF sensor in the works. Remains to be seen in what camera line that will appear.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said: I don't mind them using an old sensor, like you said a lot of old sensors are awesome. However the A6300 sensor was shit when it came out and its still shit now. A6300 has a shit sensor?? damn what are you smoking, I want some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Mako Sports said: A6300 has a shit sensor?? damn what are you smoking, I want some. I just like when companies steadily improve rather than getting progressively worse. frontfocus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 The A6300 sensor was very good, though the overall package I thought wasn't great. It had the same flaws most of those Sony cams had / have. But it had very good 4K from what I recall after using it once or twice when it came out. It'd have done better if the A6500 hadn't come right out almost immediately. It was kinda comical how many used A6300s hit the used market so quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 This camera DOES seem like an improvement over the A6300 though. Sure it isn't a A6500 but it isn't meant to be and it seems priced right (but still beyond me these days). Even the A6000 still gets a lot of love by many people. As for the screen being blocked by a mic, I thought you were not supposed to use a mic on camera for vlogging for best use of sound? You can always use a bracket or just pug into the mic jack can't you? It seems to have excellent AF for stills and I do think stills are what is going to sell this more than video (want a Sony camera for video, get something else though I think it wont be bad and may well be better than most who get it need. Is it the same sensor? Probably but people say the same thing about the A7iii sensor but I think that is not the same as the A7ii ETC, just similar. What do I know though, I am still wanting Sony to put out an A3600 and having fun using a Canon A4000 and Olympus VR-350 eight year old point and shoot cameras with HD only that I have been given (the Oly had an error when switched on but it was just a corrupt memory card and seems like it had hardly been used at all). EDIT, if this post seems addled, it is 44 degrees Celsius today and has been over 40 all this week and will be tomorrow as well (45 yesterday and more to come next week) and I don't have air con. 100 degrees f is about 37.5 c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 55 minutes ago, newfoundmass said: The A6300 sensor was very good, though the overall package I thought wasn't great. It had the same flaws most of those Sony cams had / have. But it had very good 4K from what I recall after using it once or twice when it came out. It'd have done better if the A6500 hadn't come right out almost immediately. It was kinda comical how many used A6300s hit the used market so quickly. The 4k image was fantastic but it has the worst rolling shutter of any camera I can think of, by a decent margin too. Its weird that a full frame camera would have considerably better RS performance. And then the HD went from stellar on the A6000, to terrible. Then they keep it in the A6500 and now the A6400. Yes I am a hater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 The rolling shutter on all of those Sony cameras are awful, ha ha. It didn't really improve until the A7iii. Sony mirrorless cameras were / are pretty much useless for the bulk of my work because of the rolling shutter, so I wouldn't say you're a hater since that's a valid criticism. But I also wouldn't say their sensors are terrible. They just aren't good for my kind of work (fast moving objects and people.) I'm sure in more controlled situations they're great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salim Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 hours ago, webrunner5 said: The A6400 is a killer camera for the price. The people buying them are not going to be making 3 hour Feature films with them. ...Great AF, touchscreen, face, eye detection, WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS , on and on...People want it because of the flip up touch screen and great AF, and the price. Exactly right! @Andrew Reid assessment is wrong here. He is not looking at this camera in the big picture of Sony's product line and product strategy roadmap. Sony if offering a great camera, small with amazing AF capabilities (Sony A9 level). APS-C 4k video. It flips for doing selfies (which is I think their biggest market focus and not as much the vloggers market). It's clear that Sony is going to ratchet up product announcement from least exciting to the most exciting as the year progresses. They have said the new updated firmware for A7III/A7RIII is coming in April which might indicate the release timing of the A7Siii. The 6400 is going to be an amazing entry-level camera for any new users that wants to step up from mobile phone or P&S or debating an interchangeable lens camera vs P&S. Not long ago, a camera with this kind of AF speed and FPS would have cost $4-8K. It's now an entry-level camera. This will make the 6400 the gateway drug into Sony's ecosystem. Both Canon and Nikon are now forced to react and up their games to acquire new users. So yes, the 6400 is not a "turkey" but a good product-market strategy and Sony has given this a lot more thought than you give them credit. Both Canon's and Nikon's APS-C future mirrorless offering at the sub $1000 market will be compared against the 6400. webrunner5, Mako Sports and noone 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 It is not a camera meant for us. But it sure is a camera you would want to give to your wife, girlfriend, children to take Photos and Video that are actually in Focus. Who doesn't want that. And Sony is Finally doing a half decent touchscreen, Yea, and a touch screen you can use in multiple positions. I think Sony has done some head scratching and come up with a fairly cheap, small, light, reasonable solution on the low end of their market. Like it or not I bet it will be a pretty big hit for them. Mako Sports and salim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Sports Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: It is not a camera meant for us. But it sure is a camera you would want to give to your wife, girlfriend, children to help them Get the Shot. Hell AF is what it is all about photo, or video. And it looks like this camera can deliver the goods. And Sony is Finally doing a half decent touchscreen, Yea, and a touch screen you can use in multiple positions. I think Sony has done some head scratching and come up with a fairly cheap, reasonable solution on the low end of their market. Like it or not I bet it will be a pretty big hit for them. exactly I should make an article saying the M50 or EOS R is total turkey because its not as good 1dxmkii salim and webrunner5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Kuźniar Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 13 hours ago, newfoundmass said: adequate No it's not. You wanna know why? I have plenty of out of focus footage from when my gf was helping me on a shoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 17, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted January 17, 2019 11 hours ago, salim said: So yes, the 6400 is not a "turkey" but a good product-market strategy and Sony has given this a lot more thought than you give them credit. So we should all rush out and but the camera with the best product market strategy!? Doesn't seem like much fun to me. Personally I will buy what works for me, preferably that which is well designed and innovative. frontfocus, tweak, Jerome Chiu and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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