hansel Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Hey Guys and Kaylee, so I am adding the finishing touches to my first "proper" coorperate image clip, man what a cluster fuck but still fun and quite a steep learning curve on every level, communication wise, shooting and editing aswell. To get to the point. Some clips I have shot espacially ones where tripod panning it feels like I am back in Canon t2i country resolution wise. On top of that I have shot the pans in 50p and when rolling in 25p it seems fairly choppy, slowmo seems to sober it up abit. I was wondering if someone has a trick for Resolve to even out the chops? Further would the precieved resolution los (maybe just motion blur?) be less when shooting in raw as the compression can't really handle it and mushes it up? Just in general I am trying to get to grips with how it works as pretty much all the glide cam shots i did seem to be super smooth (as in not choppy) AND sharp but they are not straight pans. Is it a sensor readout problem? Anyway maybe so can enlighten me a bit, cheers. kaylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I've always asked me the same, and it's true, in RAW footage the motion blur looks really epic, I often find myself admiring and extracting blur Frames out of sequences. No real answer but I find that following the 180 degree shutter rule and recording raw Never looks choppy no matter how Hard the Pans are. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 When using aconstant bitrate interframe codec, any movement in the frame will have quality degradation. The more motion, the more quality loss. Shooting raw will eliminate such issues. An interframe codec would also eliminate motion artifacts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart0less Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 It's just magic (aka motion cadence). ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 Haha, ok so what you are saying is: I can blame the camera, or me for doing pans. Great. Can't wait to get my hands on RAW then. One more question if you shoot 4k and pan and then convert to 1080p would this make it less shit? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, hansel said: Haha, ok so what you are saying is: I can blame the camera, or me for doing pans. Great. Can't wait to get my hands on RAW then. One more question if you shoot 4k and pan and then convert to 1080p would this make it less shit? Cheers. I don't think so, but motion judder is less evident on small screens, that's why while I'm filming on the d800 everything looks great, but once I open it on my computer I have to puke because of what nikon does with it's crappy codec. You could buy an eos m for 80€ and try raw, looks pretty good if you aim for 1080p. hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, hansel said: Haha, ok so what you are saying is: I can blame the camera, or me for doing pans. Great. Can't wait to get my hands on RAW then. One more question if you shoot 4k and pan and then convert to 1080p would this make it less shit? Cheers. Downscaling is essentially adding a blur to your image. It might help reduce compression artifacts--if that is indeed what you are seeing, that was just my first guess without having seen the image itself. You might get better mileage out of a directional blur rather than downscaling. hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted January 22, 2019 Author Share Posted January 22, 2019 No, there are no artifacts it just turns to mush. And yes exactly when I check video on a small tablet or smart phone everthing is gravy but reviewing on my screen gives me eye cancer. A well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightsFan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, hansel said: No, there are no artifacts it just turns to mush. And yes exactly when I check video on a small tablet or smart phone everthing is gravy but reviewing on my screen gives me eye cancer. A well.... Yup, sounds like simple compression artifacts to me. Downscaling might make it subjectively more pleasant to look at, but won't recover any details that have been mushed. The only real solution would be to use a higher bitrate or better codec to begin with. Raw of course solves every problem, but is usually overkill. High bitrate intraframe codecs are ideal for fast pans, but even using a higher bitrate interframe codec would improve the image. However, a better acquisition format doesn't fully solve the problem. If you distribute on a streaming service, then it will be compressed into mush, whether you shot in Raw or not. The delivery format is often the limiting factor these days. hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Here some sample from a video where I accidentally pressed record while testing ML raw 50fps hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 hours ago, hansel said: Hey Guys and Kaylee, so I am adding the finishing touches to my first "proper" coorperate image clip, man what a cluster fuck but still fun and quite a steep learning curve on every level, communication wise, shooting and editing aswell. To get to the point. Some clips I have shot espacially ones where tripod panning it feels like I am back in Canon t2i country resolution wise. On top of that I have shot the pans in 50p and when rolling in 25p it seems fairly choppy, slowmo seems to sober it up abit. I was wondering if someone has a trick for Resolve to even out the chops? Further would the precieved resolution los (maybe just motion blur?) be less when shooting in raw as the compression can't really handle it and mushes it up? Just in general I am trying to get to grips with how it works as pretty much all the glide cam shots i did seem to be super smooth (as in not choppy) AND sharp but they are not straight pans. Is it a sensor readout problem? Anyway maybe so can enlighten me a bit, cheers. What is a "cooperate image" clip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylee Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 this is a good question i would like a shutter readout so fast its practically global. my 5d3 raw is far from that tho... one thing you could do, if possible, is pan as slowly as possible, and speed it up in post. could that help? hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 hours ago, hansel said: Hey Guys and Kaylee, so I am adding the finishing touches to my first "proper" coorperate image clip, man what a cluster fuck but still fun and quite a steep learning curve on every level, communication wise, shooting and editing aswell. To get to the point. Some clips I have shot espacially ones where tripod panning it feels like I am back in Canon t2i country resolution wise. On top of that I have shot the pans in 50p and when rolling in 25p it seems fairly choppy, slowmo seems to sober it up abit. I was wondering if someone has a trick for Resolve to even out the chops? Further would the precieved resolution los (maybe just motion blur?) be less when shooting in raw as the compression can't really handle it and mushes it up? Just in general I am trying to get to grips with how it works as pretty much all the glide cam shots i did seem to be super smooth (as in not choppy) AND sharp but they are not straight pans. Is it a sensor readout problem? Anyway maybe so can enlighten me a bit, cheers. In terms of what you can try to improve the clips you've already shot, here are some thoughts. Try using the stabiliser to smooth out the pan a little. The stabiliser will crop into the image, but if you're only wanting to stabilise a slightly jerky pan then it shouldn't have to crop much at all to really help. Here's a useful video: If you're really seeing compression artefacts then you can attempt to hide them by adding a small amount of blur to smooth them over and then adding a small amount of sharpening after that to match the look with your other shots. This is a pretty nasty thing to do to your footage and if you add too much of this treatment it will look like very low quality footage, but if you add a tiny tiny bit of this then it might improve things a small amount. I'd suggest using the OFX plugin called something like Soften and Sharpen which allows you to soften/sharpen small/medium/large textures individually, so you can do it all in one place and just turn it on/off to check if you're making things better or worse Nice work on plowing through a paid gig - hopefully the first of many? kaylee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylee Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 heres a stupid question: if my (slow) sensor readout runs left to right, top to bottom, is that a factor in moving the camera? like a camera whip to the left would be going the opposite direction of the readout, so to speak, so panning to the right might look a little better? any truth to that? this is the kind of "article" im going to write for kayleerumors lmaooo hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, kaylee said: heres a stupid question: if my (slow) sensor readout runs left to right, top to bottom, is that a factor in moving the camera? like a camera whip to the left would be going the opposite direction of the readout, so to speak, so panning to the right might look a little better? any truth to that? this is the kind of "article" im going to write for kayleerumors lmaooo The biggest delay is from the top to the bottom of the frame (or at least, it is in every camera I've seen - maybe others are different?) so if you're panning left-right or right-left then it won't make much difference. Think about those RS tests where people just move the camera left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right and the whole thing is wobble-vision. Technically each line is a little compressed or expanded horizontally when you move sideways, but the jello effect of the rolling shutter is mostly just vertical. If you had some magical way of eliminating the vertical effect (a plugin that lined up all your vertical lines perhaps) then maybe you'd notice a compression or expansion when panning, but I suspect it's too small to really be of much importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 hours ago, Mokara said: What is a "cooperate image" clip? Haha, is this a typo? Image video about a company, dadida?!? Like: "Our company does this and that, nice B-Roll, while someone talks over it, cut back to the guy talking, dramatic music after he makes a good point and so on... 5 hours ago, kaylee said: heres a stupid question: if my (slow) sensor readout runs left to right, top to bottom, is that a factor in moving the camera? like a camera whip to the left would be going the opposite direction of the readout, so to speak, so panning to the right might look a little better? any truth to that? this is the kind of "article" im going to write for kayleerumors lmaooo Very good point! It seems (on my cam) that pans up and down are smoother. Maybe right to left panning might be better. Also one could turn the camera upside down. Or shoot 4k portrait and crop the picture in post landscape :D . It's not like I am wip panning like a crazy fool, just a tat to fast for the codec to catch up, damn. 8 hours ago, kye said: In terms of what you can try to improve the clips you've already shot, here are some thoughts. Try using the stabiliser to smooth out the pan a little. The stabiliser will crop into the image, but if you're only wanting to stabilise a slightly jerky pan then it shouldn't have to crop much at all to really help. Here's a useful video: If you're really seeing compression artefacts then you can attempt to hide them by adding a small amount of blur to smooth them over and then adding a small amount of sharpening after that to match the look with your other shots. This is a pretty nasty thing to do to your footage and if you add too much of this treatment it will look like very low quality footage, but if you add a tiny tiny bit of this then it might improve things a small amount. I'd suggest using the OFX plugin called something like Soften and Sharpen which allows you to soften/sharpen small/medium/large textures individually, so you can do it all in one place and just turn it on/off to check if you're making things better or worse Nice work on plowing through a paid gig - hopefully the first of many? Thanks, It might be just good enough that they will hire me again one day. On the clip there is writing on the wall and that is just fairly jumpy, that's were I can notice it the most. Will definetly check the Video and see what I can do. kaylee and kye 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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