Please advice on anamorphic starter setup

[ultra909]

Hello guys,
I'm new here but seems that's the proper place to ask questions.
Instead of asking the question about what lens to get, I've made a research on the internet and of course on Tito's videos and picked some of my favourite things to start with the anamorphinc with my A7iii.

So far, I've found a few affordable solutions. I can't simply spent a few k$ for some anamorphic lens from which you would need occasional art film look once, meanwhile you do rest of your job on workhorse AF-C lenses.

I see anamorphic glares now almost in any recent Netflix movies and seems that glares will be on every wedding films soon.
Apart of the budget thing, I also want to have as compact setup as possible. I.e if possible to not pick my rails and single focus basically run&gun solution

So:
1) 
SLR Magic Anamorphot-40 1.33x Anamorphic Adapter (Compact) - $499
+
SLR Magic Rangefinder Cine Adapter (Near/Normal) - $ 279 - That rangefinder is also one of the cheapest on the market, but seems needs 77 to 62 downscale ring to connect to Anamorphshot-40.
+
add normal lens in the range of 35-70mm.

Seems the most popular lenses will be Helios 44 (easy and cheap, $ 50+) or also could be micro primes - both options has directly 52 mm filter thread.
Helios being a 58mm with 1.33x adapter will be around 44mm normal view. 1.33x will not give you lots of oval bokeh, however Helios already has it a bit, isn't?
So in total $ 828+ for a such a starter combo.

2) Anamorphic Store offers Schneider and Isco kits but even the simplest signle solution without taking lens will cost $ 1.549 + taking lens. As an option, is possible to get rangefinder only for let's say $679 and then look for Isco/Kowa lenses at eBay ($300+) and then make clamps to fit them together etc., so let's say that more DIY solution will costs around $1k+

Any thoughts on both?
Am I thinking right?

I personally think I have to choose anamorphic system first and then look for pairing lenses which are easier to pick.
Of course Anamorphot-40 is more like for crop and with FF you have to use Anamorphot-50 better...
Thank you for the comments!

[CfFilmmaker]

Depends on how small you need it to be! Here's a few setup recommendations from my experience.

 

1) The Anamorphot 50 with the Rangefinder is a classic setup, and the flares work well together. The full kit can be had for less than $800 if you wheel and deal on ebay. If you stay stoped down and don't use lenses with long focal lengths (85mm+) that is a great one to start with. People make a deal about it not being sharp due to the Rangefinder, but at the right aputure and focal length settings, it does a great job.

2) If you don't mind getting a little bigger, the Kowa prominars are all awesome. I'd recommend most iterations of them. These are around $350-$750. They are fairly compact and sharp. They also flare nicely. If you get one with blue flares, which will be most of them, the SLR magic plays well with them.

3) If price is your main concern and you don't mind going bigger still, the Hypergonar Hi Fi 2 is about as much Anamorphic character as you can pack for less than $200 The flares are golden and have an excellent pattern, the footage is organic, raw, a litttle distorted, and a little soft wide open, though the lens can get sharp with the right combo. Don't go for a Hypergonar S.T.O.P. though, as you know Tito isn't a huge fan. 

Other lenses worth a little research are the Proskar, Aivascope, Isco Ultrastar, and the Schneider Cinelux. My biggest recommendation is that you order yourself a Rapido FVD-16 variable Diopter. Great sharpness, not flare tinting, and a front filter size that makes much more sense than a Rectilux. It goes for $550 currently too. You can go for one of those Isco Kits on ebay, but you'll pay for convenience. If you've got the money though, the single focus system is sharp and not tinted as well. 

That's what I got! If you have any questions reply and I'll see if I can answer!

[heart0less]

Listen to CfFilmmaker, he listed some great points there!

2) Anamorphic Store knows to how to run a marketing campaign, but their stuff is really shady and totally not worth it. Way overpriced items, which are badly made.

You can get a whole better setup for the money.

 

I used ISCO Ultra Star HD Plus 2.1 on my a7III for a few months (sold a7III a week ago) and it was a really nice setup. Double focusing is pretty hard, though.

Feel free to join Anamorphic Shooters group on Facebook.

[Julien416]

4 hours ago, CfFilmmaker said:

Don't go for a Hypergonar S.T.O.P. though, as you know Tito isn't a huge fan. 

I really don't get the hate for the hypergonar. There are six different iterations. Tito only tested one, the biggest and latest, and honestly it looked kinda good even though the lens looked misaligned. I have the first iteration, the rarest, the glass is larger than the rest of the bunch. I guess I was fortunate to get it. And even though it's not in the best shape, it's probably one of the most organic and best anamorphot I have. And I do have a LOT of them, Kowa 16h, Kowa B&H, dyaliscope junior, kowa 16D, Cinelux, ruralscope... You name it. But the hypergonar is definitely one of my personnal favorite. Soft yet sharp, a lot of anamorphic characters, blue flares. And small.   

Tito has been more and more critical of the old anormorphic projection lens. I kinda get it. But honestly, on a TV series I am directing, I have been intercuting shots taken with my Hypergonar 16 / rectilux combo with shots taken on Panavision B series and no one ever noticed the difference. The old cinema anamorphics are REALLY soft and full of flaws, and not that different at least image wise from a GOOD projection lens combo. And I've shot with a LOT of different cinema anamorphics when doing commercials.

Of course, in practical terms of course they are not in the same league and that's probably why Tito can't be bothered with projection lens anymore

[Tito Ferradans]

I heard my name and *poof!*

It's not that I don't like the look of the Hypergonar (that's of my most eye-pleasing tests), but all the hassle that comes from bigger setups. Not just from Hypergonars, but the whole big projection scope lot.

I'm a weakling - aka I don't do too well carrying a lot of weight - and I don't like how long the setups get. Attached is a photo I took of the setup for that video. This is the Contax 135/2.8 behind the Hypergonar, and the FVD is at the front of the system for single focus. I don't realistically see myself shooting something with that. I fear it'd snap at the mount, or be impossible to balance on a tripod/shoulder rig.

Then I don't like how narrow the FOV gets, forcing you to telephoto taking lenses.

If not properly rigged and supported, you end up getting some angle on the lens itself, shifting your focus plane and rendering weird out-of-focus areas that shouldn't exist.\

I also get what @Julien416 is saying about me being bothered by projection scopes. I tested a lot of them. For three years every week almost. So we built this weird relationship in which their flaws started to really get on my nerves. There are a few exceptions and surprises out there, but the hassle just makes it unbearable for me. On top of that, I'm on the cusp of getting a set of LOMO squarefronts, which changes the game completely for me.

I shoot a lot of low-budget indie stuff in which the shooting itself is ALWAYS in a rush, so adding an element that's time consuming and not everyone can understand gets immediately pushed aside (which is why most of what I shoot is NOT anamorphic and I want to change that).

[CfFilmmaker]

8 hours ago, Tito Ferradans said:

I heard my name and *poof!*

It's not that I don't like the look of the Hypergonar (that's of my most eye-pleasing tests), but all the hassle that comes from bigger setups. Not just from Hypergonars, but the whole big projection scope lot.

I'm a weakling - aka I don't do too well carrying a lot of weight - and I don't like how long the setups get. Attached is a photo I took of the setup for that video. This is the Contax 135/2.8 behind the Hypergonar, and the FVD is at the front of the system for single focus. I don't realistically see myself shooting something with that. I fear it'd snap at the mount, or be impossible to balance on a tripod/shoulder rig.

Then I don't like how narrow the FOV gets, forcing you to telephoto taking lenses.

If not properly rigged and supported, you end up getting some angle on the lens itself, shifting your focus plane and rendering weird out-of-focus areas that shouldn't exist.\

I also get what @Julien416 is saying about me being bothered by projection scopes. I tested a lot of them. For three years every week almost. So we built this weird relationship in which their flaws started to really get on my nerves. There are a few exceptions and surprises out there, but the hassle just makes it unbearable for me. On top of that, I'm on the cusp of getting a set of LOMO squarefronts, which changes the game completely for me.

I shoot a lot of low-budget indie stuff in which the shooting itself is ALWAYS in a rush, so adding an element that's time consuming and not everyone can understand gets immediately pushed aside (which is why most of what I shoot is NOT anamorphic and I want to change that).

That makes total sense. In a business environment- which I think most of us would like to find ourselves in if we can make it happen- it's not practical to jump through that many hoops for something a lot of clients frankly don't even notice. (unless you've been hired specifically for it) Those square fronts are going to be sick! How long until you think you'll be able to get them?

 

[Julien416]

The longer focal length are indeed a PITA. But with a 50 or 58, or even 85, you can honestly have a quite practical and manageable setup if you combine your diopter with the metal jackets from rapido technology. 

It weighs about 1.7 kgs which is not that different from any (small) anamorphic cinema lens. But obviously it's a little longer and it's quite front heavy because of the rectilux.

@Tito Ferradans The Square front are very nice, but I hope you like optical flaws (and mumps for the 35mm) because they are full of it :))

Flares are exceptionnaly nice though.

[Tito Ferradans]

33 minutes ago, Julien416 said:

The longer focal length are indeed a PITA. But with a 50 or 58, or even 85, you can honestly have a quite practical and manageable setup if you combine your diopter with the metal jackets from rapido technology. 

It weighs about 1.7 kgs which is not that different from any (small) anamorphic cinema lens. But obviously it's a little longer and it's quite front heavy because of the rectilux.

@Tito Ferradans The Square front are very nice, but I hope you like optical flaws (and mumps for the 35mm) because they are full of it :))

Flares are exceptionnaly nice though.

That is A LOT more manageable, not shooting full frame makes the experience way easier and enjoyable. ?

As for the square fronts, I love the artifacts.

 

[seku]

if you go m43 like in this picture, you can go quite a bit smaller as well.

Here is my most portable setup. Does either 4k 21:9ish or 6k 16:9ish

[ultra909]

wow, guys, thank you so much for the replies.

I didn't receive any email notification but check manually the forum almost every day.

So, I just ordered SLR Magic Rangefinder. Is just a move so I don't have any way back  so while it is delivering I'm thinking on further rig

I really like the rigs above and probably should rename that topic to 'show me your portable anamorphic rigs'.

@CfFilmmaker

Thank you for the inspiring words. I would like to have more lightweight setup of course and dealing with clamps isn't super gun-n-run solution I believe, especially when it comes to aligning the lenses. I mean how strong and solid the whole construction will be (without rails, lens support etc). 

SLR Anamorphshot 50 x2 is definitely an interesting option I'm strongly considering while oversleeping it and making next decision. Could you tell what is its size difference with 1.33 or 2x version?

I also spoke with Eddie from Vid-atlantic and they offer front filter ring 72mm for Sankor. So with step up 72-77 ring I will fit securely rangefinder to the front but the clam will be needed anyway. Stupid question - do you need to cover the area where clamp is fixed so no light is getting in from the outside?

 

[TurboRat]

On 2/8/2019 at 4:47 AM, seku said:

if you go m43 like in this picture, you can go quite a bit smaller as well.

Here is my most portable setup. Does either 4k 21:9ish or 6k 16:9ish

Is that a Sankor anamorphic? and what's the taking lens?

[seku]

It's a Bolex 8/19 1.5x stretch anamorphic, on a Voigtlander Ultron 40mm II lens.

[ultra909]

topic update: I've got the cheapest solution so far.sankor16c + rangefinder and vid-atlantic clamps.

Waiting for Helios44m to arrive. Just did some tests with my Sony 28-70 kit lens. Best results were using Super35 mode with maximum focus 70mm (equivalent to let's say 105mm). In that case I got no vignetting and pretty decent quality (min. apperture at 70mm is f5.6 no need to stop anywhere down).

Now I can surely say every newbie MUST try is basically 2x anamorphic on 16:9 sensor  Picture is so interesting but has to be cropped heavily. I learned it in a hard way but for a pretty decent price. Whole construction is sorta wobbly. I didn't put it on the rails yet as it would be smart to put some lens support element before the follow focus.

Single focus solution sorta works, but is difficult to focus as peaking don't really works great at f/5.6 and dark conditions.

https://youtu.be/bfkol6bcIEw

https://youtu.be/0heobCB9ym4

My next step: I definitely want to try Anamorphot 40 as I said initially in the topic. Pretty sure Helios44 will pair well with it (probably super35 or a bit of clear image zoom will do the job to remove slight vignetting). SLR magic have lots of dealers in UK so I still have around a month to get things before brexit without customs clearance 

Another thing: I don't really want to open another topic, but are there list of lenses that work well with Anamorphot 40? There are tiny but interesting pancakes from Samyang (24, 35mm 2.8). I'm thinking about FE 55mm 1.8 - I purchased DLSR Videoshooter video guide for A7iii and Caleb explained how he does AF-C video focus manually tweaking Anamorphic adapter (without rangefinder). Is that a great solution?

 

[ultra909]

Here is same setup, just with Helios, shot wide-open or closed to f/4.

Not pretending to be anything a cool demo, just fast test as is. 

Not really happy with the clamps as for each lens has to adjust them and even flares are true horizontal, lens doesn't always stay straight into the clamps.

Helios used in super35 mode, however I believe is better to use FF mode in 4k and crop heavy in post , otherwise full 2x squeeze on 16:9 sensor is just unuseable for watching. On mobile devices in vertical position especially  Rolling shutter increases so badly, must turn carefully. 

 

[ed.ge]

You don't have to spend too much money for a decent set up. I have designed several practical rigs for different cameras and anamorphic  lenses ( Lomo, modified Lomo, Meopta Anagon, Rathenhower). Please check Anamorphic rig examples for some ideas. If you want one of a kind set up let me know.