Panasonic GH6

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, kye said:

Ie, a downgrade.

Maybe. Maybe not. You'd also be shooting with a larger pixel size. 

[kye]

14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Maybe. Maybe not. You'd also be shooting with a larger pixel size. 

That's true.

Would that mean that it would be 420 colour?  That's what the 5K mode is currently.

Maybe it will happen and then I'll be happy I switched to 1080 - it's not like YT is good enough to tell between 4K and a 1080p up-res anyway....

[newfoundmass]

I'm in agreement that the GH6 needs to continue leading the way to remain relevant, and one way is through progressive features that Sony and Canon might be able to match, but will be very hesitant to do because of how protective they are of their cinema lines. 

Making the GH6 into a true M43 powerhouse would likely not affect their full frame and cinema camera plans too much, and might even help by being credible b or c cameras for them. Given the trends though, I don't think releasing a forward thinking and powerful M43 camera would negatively impact those because, simply put, there are going to be people that just won't entertain using a M43 camera no matter the features. Fuck em, I say, and reward those loyal M43 shooters and those that aren't opposed to "downgrading" with something really special and forward thinking. 

We don't just need higher resolution. Functionality is what's most important. Wanna give us 6K? Fine, but don't just give us a 6K version of the GH6. Woo us like you did with the GH4 and the GH5. Exceed our expectations in the functionality department. 

[Amazeballs]

I wish Panasonic were reading this topic. 

[Amazeballs]

Personally besides all that was said, I would love Panasonic to bring AF that would work with 3rd party lenses. Adopted glass with speedbooster gives around 1.3 crop on GH5 which is awesome. And I love my adopted glass. Sigma 18-35 is glued to my camera. New Tokina 11-20 2.8 looks awesome and cheap. I would keep on collecting Canon ef glass if I knew the AF will work someday. 

[Amazeballs]

About Super35/Aps-c sensor - I would vote for that or at least they could make 2 GH6 modifications with normal m43 and enhanced S35 sensor. I'd probably buy a whole set of Sigma primes for m43 (16, 30, 56) and they would all work as S35 glass. There is plenty of other 0.95 manual glass that was designed for APS-C, I want that too. 

Also there is an army of GH5 fans who love Panasonic for their features and ergo and waiting for GH6 to be announced to make their decesisions. 

[Video Hummus]

I don’t much care for the two variants in the same model paradigm they did with the GH5 and the 5S. If they need or want to go S35 that’s fine but please don’t leave out key brand features like IBIS. And having a MFT GH6, a S35 GH6S with the S1 and now S5 doesn’t make much sense.

The key technologies that must be there for sure are Dual ISO, IBIS, and Handheld HiRes composite images  as they have become key LUMIX brand features and help expand the usability of MFT in areas where a smaller sensor can fall short (mostly lowlight and lack of Megapixels). Otherwise they just need to expand on a lot of features they have going like their 6K photo mode for instance.

[Parker]

7 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

I wish Panasonic were reading this topic. 

No need to wish! Last year a Panasonic rep I met (you'd recognize him from YouTube interviews on some pretty popular channels) legit told me, while showing off a then still in pre-production S1h at a local camera store, that panny employees do in fact frequently read EOSHD and other industry sites, not just for fun but actually as a part of their job, in order to follow discussion on their products and gauge consumer reaction. 

I even made a joke that I wanted his job, since I browse camera forums all day anyway, I'd love to get paid for it. 

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

If they need or want to go S35 that’s fine but please don’t leave out key brand features like IBIS.

I believe that, and low resolution photos may have been one of the reasons for the rather disappointing sales of the GH5s, compared to the GH5. 

[Kisaha]

On 8/25/2020 at 6:09 PM, currensheldon said:

For MFT and GH6 to survive now that everyone has caught up with the GH-series but in full-frame (10-bit, All-I, 60fps in 4k, etc) is to offer things that will take another 3-4 years for other manufacturers to do (especially since Canon and Sony have just put out their mirrorless video flagships):

- high frame rates (for sure), including 120-180fps in 4k at good bit rates (and not insane ones like R5). Maybe even 480fps in HD?
- e-ND - they HAVE to have internal ND filters.
- GH5s or better low light - just to at least be in the same ballpark as Super35/full-frame (meaning usable to 6400 ISO, which is 98% of use cases)
- Internal raw or at least some form of 12-bit compression that gets you close to raw quality (BM Raw?) 
- Great XLR capabilities - perhaps a better version of the grip that is also dual XLRs? I would prefer this than the hotshoe one so there is still a place to mount a microphone without a cage (or to keep your monitor centered over camera).
- Global Shutter or miniscule rolling shutter - MFT has always been good for this, but now to take it a step further. 
- $1799 or lower - Has to be cheaper than entry-level full-frame and something like the XT3. 
- Tof AF? - I don't care a ton about AF (always seems to fail me in critical moments with Canon/Sony so I don't use it), but so many people care A LOT, that they have to do something.
- Insanely good IBIS - This has always been Panasonic's strong suit, but Canon has caught up. So 8-10 stops of IBIS and improved mechanism for walking forward to create close-to-gimbal like movement. 

Pair this camera with the 10-25mm f1.7 and video shooters are set.

haha! that is 100% (as a whole) undoable! 

Parts of it, doable ofcourse.

- 4K/60 is enough for me, some kind of bigger resolution for re-size/frame, stabilize would be great, 6K/60p would be amazing and if yes, then 4K/120 would be possible, and enough, and 180/HD.

- e-ND, we wish, this is like my #1 need, but noone has done it before, so we wish, but they do NOT have to. 

- at least GH5S low light is already present on a GH camera, so I would be certain about it. 6400 ISO in 98% of use cases? Not everyone shoots on dungeons or tunnels or mines.

- Internal RAW is not happening. period. BM is a rival, not a friend, in no way they will use BM raw.

- There is already the XLR thingy, they had the old UGH (I do not remember the name) for the GH4 and it was a huge disappointment. The thingy is enough, and it works, right now.

- Global shutter, no way, miniscule rolling shutter, extremely positive.

- 1799$ would be a fair price, but maybe it is not possible.

- Why noone uses ToF AF? they need to step up their AF game, for sure.

- Whatever they can do with IBIS, they are already quite good I believe.

I already have my perfect m43 lens, Olympus 12-100mm 4f, thank you very much.

[thebrothersthre3]

10 bit up to 4k 120p would be expected for me. Canon and Sony are doing it with full frame sensors. Good low light performance is expected and IBIS. 

To really change up the game, some sort of 12 bit recording or E-ND would be huge and really give a big reason to stick with M43, even if AF still sucks. 

[sanveer]

50 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

4K/60 is enough for me, some kind of bigger resolution for re-size/frame, stabilize would be great, 6K/60p would be amazing and if yes, then 4K/120 would be possible, and enough, and 180/HD.

This, the GH5 already does. So having 4k/60 makes no sense. Atleast 4k at 120fps. The A7siii already offers this.

51 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

e-ND, we wish, this is like my #1 need, but noone has done it before, so we wish, but they do NOT have to. 

Before Panasonic nobody did 10-bit video internally, either. So Panasonic must lead the way. Like Olympus and Panasonic have led the way in Mirrorless for the last decade and everyone is catching on now (with IBIS, customs buttons and functions in menu, the missing mirror, live view, 4k and 6k, limitless recording etc). e-ND seems quite possible, especially with filters growing smaller and smaller, and the fact that the eND doesn't require multiple physical NDs and so, it can be Tiny.

55 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

at least GH5S low light is already present on a GH camera, so I would be certain about it. 6400 ISO in 98% of use cases? Not everyone shoots on dungeons or tunnels or mines.

ISO6400 is more than usable for most situations. I agree with you on this. Also, I suspect, with the current generations of sensors, the GH6 may be ok with ISO12800 with the correct noise reduction algorithms. 

56 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

There is already the XLR thingy, they had the old UGH (I do not remember the name) for the GH4 and it was a huge disappointment. The thingy is enough, and it works, right now.

Maybe Panasonic offer the Yagh again, Re-Designed to be 1/3rd the size of the original, with XLR and Also a Compression System for Raw. To have multiple flavours from the HDMI RAW output, for easier management of the codec (of its RAW). 

58 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Global shutter, no way, miniscule rolling shutter, extremely positive.

The GH5 already has pretty respectable rolling shutter. The R5 and A7siii apparently have even better rolling shutter. So with rhe next generation of sensor, the GH6 could easily reduce the already great rolling shutter to even lower levels. Global shutter may not be needed. 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

1799$ would be a fair price, but maybe it is not possible.

The G9 offers a Lot More in terms of hardware to the GH5 (much faster burst rates for photos, better processing, much better IBIS, HighRes mode, a top LCD etc), for $999. So the GH6 could easily use the G9 body and be priced at $1599. 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Why noone uses ToF AF? they need to step up their AF game, for sure.

Agree. A ToF and Laser autofocus combo could possibly even match PDAF.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Whatever they can do with IBIS, they are already quite good I believe.

Agree. But they could improve it further, especially for walking while shooting video. On the G9 level (not the GH5 level).

 

49 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

10 bit up to 4k 120p would be expected for me. Canon and Sony are doing it with full frame sensors. Good low light performance is expected and IBIS. 

To really change up the game, some sort of 12 bit recording or E-ND would be huge and really give a big reason to stick with M43, even if AF still sucks. 

Agree. 12-bit is easily possible. If Panasonic thinks it's too much, let users pay, like they did for VLog. Another $200-300 for the key. They also need to redesign the Yagh again, with the main purpose of  ompressing RAW into various compression ratios, within the Yagh, from 1/3 all the way to 1/12. They could have 14-bit RAW to ensure the image doesn't fall apart with the compression. 

 

 

[Video Hummus]

GH5S has enough lowlight Performance for what I’ve needed it for.

So If GH6 can match that but also give me 20MP+ stills, and 4K120p, 6K24p, and at least 10-bit 420 everything...I’d be ecstatic.

I was very surprised when using it in a trip to Senja, Norway. Shot 8000 ISO, candlelight only, with the 12-35 f2.8 In HLG. Did de-noise in post on a few shots.

If I would have had my 10-25mm f/1.7 Which is permanently attached to my camera, I could have dropped ISO from 8000 to 4000 or even 3200 which is a piece of cake for the 5S. Use a voighlander 0.95 and I’m not sure you would have problems with much of anything besides moonlight only or pitch black.

Shot northern lights no problem with built-in time lapse feature. Although it was my first time and I learned a lot! Next time I will shoot a RAW sequence and assemble in post.

ISO performance from the A7SIII is amazing but for me is quite niche, really.

[Video Hummus]

Screenshots of what I’m talking about:

 

[Mmmbeats]

5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

6400 ISO in 98% of use cases? Not everyone shoots on dungeons or tunnels or mines.

I think currensheldon meant that 6400 or below covers 98% of use cases, rather than that most were actually shot at 6400. 

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

- 4K/60 is enough for me, some kind of bigger resolution for re-size/frame, stabilize would be great, 6K/60p would be amazing and if yes, then 4K/120 would be possible, and enough, and 180/HD.

We know from the Terra 4K that the current generation GH5 sensor is already capable of 160fps 4K if they throw enough processing power at it. 
 

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

- e-ND, we wish, this is like my #1 need, but noone has done it before, so we wish, but they do NOT have to. 

Does Sony have patents blocking this from happening?
 

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

- at least GH5S low light is already present on a GH camera, so I would be certain about it. 6400 ISO in 98% of use cases? Not everyone shoots on dungeons or tunnels or mines.

I think the GH5S sensor in a GH5 body (i.e. with IBIS) would be epic. 
But the GH5S sensor runs very hot, thus the GH5S couldn't have IBIS as that would prevent it from cooling down. Has enough time passed by for Panasonic to solve this problem, is it even possible? Dunno. 
 

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

- There is already the XLR thingy, they had the old UGH (I do not remember the name) for the GH4 and it was a huge disappointment. The thingy is enough, and it works, right now.

It's name was YAGH, but "UGH" is more appropriate!

They've got now the Panasonic DMW-XLR1 XLR Microphone Adapter, and I hope they keep compatibility with the GH6 so the DMW-XLR1 works with it too (the DMW-XLR1 already works with the GH5/GH5S/S1/S1R/S1H).

But also I'd like to see a "Panasonic DMW-XLR2" which adds:
An independent SDI output
BNC connector for switchable in/out timecode
3.5mm stereo input for recording channels 3/4

12 hours ago, sanveer said:

The G9 offers a Lot More in terms of hardware to the GH5 (much faster burst rates for photos, better processing, much better IBIS, HighRes mode, a top LCD etc), for $999. So the GH6 could easily use the G9 body and be priced at $1599.  

Aside from anamorphic features, and DMW-XLR1, why would I still choose the GH5 over the G9 with DMW-SFU1?

 

[kye]

@sanveer @thebrothersthre3 have you run into situations where the 10-bit had issues?  Or just wanting to push closer to raw?

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

We know from the Terra 4K that the current generation GH5 sensor is already capable of 160fps 4K if they throw enough processing power at it. 

Now we're talking!!

Seriously though, a 5.2K sensor should easily be enough for everyone except those who want to digitally re-frame, and even then you can still upscale to something like 150% and add a bit of sharpening and there's no perceptible difference.

Another increment in the endless upgrading of modes from 420 to 422 and from 8-bit to 10-bit and from IPB to ALL-I would be great.  

I imagine that upgrades to the 120p mode would be very popular - anything over 50/60p from the GH5 is limited to 1080p 100Mbps 420 8-bit IPB.  Even a modest bump for 120p up to 200Mbps 420 10-bit would be hugely beneficial.  

Reconforming 120p down to 24p means that at current you're effectively watching 24p at 20Mbps 420 8-bit IPB.  If you're shooting a film then pairing 1080p 20Mbps 420 8-bit shots with 200Mbps 422 10-bit ALL-I 1080p or 400Mbps 422 10-bit ALL-I 4K is a very significant mis-match!

Having a GH5 for sports is actually a great setup.  You have MFT and the crop factor gives you access to much longer equivalent focal lengths for less money than the big zooms, the IBIS is great, and the viewfinder works in harsh lighting.  The only real Achilles heel for sports is the codec.

[currensheldon]

On 8/26/2020 at 7:03 PM, Mmmbeats said:

I think currensheldon meant that 6400 or below covers 98% of use cases, rather than that most were actually shot at 6400. 

Correct. Shooting BELOW 6400 ISO is 98% of use cases. But I usually shoot (75% of the time) at whatever the native ISO is (640 ISO for GH5, if I remember correctly?).

Even with the S1H, I almost never go above 4000 ISO. 

[Amazeballs]

There is also one feature I've been dying to see - a big 4.5-5 inch flip out screen. And a fuckin bright one. The never released Sharp prototype of 8k camera nailed it. 

[Kisaha]

8 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Correct. Shooting BELOW 6400 ISO is 98% of use cases. But I usually shoot (75% of the time) at whatever the native ISO is (640 ISO for GH5, if I remember correctly?).

Even with the S1H, I almost never go above 4000 ISO. 

Sorry for misunderstanding you. I totally agree!

That is why is great to have dual native ISO, one for day time and one for night. The GH5S, EZ and Pocket sensor is really liberating for me and negates the one issue I have with the GH5, which admittedly isn't that great at 3200 and more.