Panasonic GH6

[PannySVHS]

German test site Slashcam states, that Prores will also be enabled for various 4k and HD modes later via firmware update. Would love that and would love to hear that info from Matt Frazer, who did a great job on representing the GH4 and GH5 back then.

[Roger]

From cined.com

"Planned firmware update

Panasonic already mentioned some features that will be unlocked with a future firmware update. These include (but are not limited to) the following:

Apple ProRes 422 and 422 HQ for DCI 4K and Full HD resolutions

Direct recording to an SSD via the USB-C port

4K 120fps HDMI video output during live view

4K 120fps HDMI raw video data output to Atomos Ninja V+

Panasonic did not yet disclose when exactly we can expect this update."

Matt and Sean confirm the firmware updates in this video at 27.20

 

[sanveer]

38 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

German test site Slashcam states, that Prores will also be enabled for various 4k and HD modes later via firmware update. Would love that and would love to hear that info from Matt Frazer, who did a great job on representing the GH4 and GH5 back then.

This is a screengrab from the livestream.

P.S. I JUST noticed that @Roger posted it above

[hyalinejim]

56 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I hope Panasonic release a chart like Blackmagic does for the Shadows and Highlights

They do have a chart of sorts - it's a few posts back.

Short answer:
Normal VLog = 4 point something stops above, the rest are below
DR Boost VLog = 5 point something stops above, the rest below middle grey

[kye]

9 hours ago, Django said:

Just checked the CineD labtest and it says a bit more than that:

About 12 stops can be identified above the noise floor, plus a faint 13th and a hint of a 14th stop.

What's most interesting is DR increases in H265 to 11.5-12.8! They conclude:

So, you actually have a nice choice here: ProRes HQ preserves the “raw” sensor image in a better way leaving all options for postprocessing but is a tad noisier, whereas H265 is very efficient in storage space and gives good DR values out of the box without the need for much postprocessing. 

But the DR latitude test is really where this DGA/DGO tech usually shines and sure enough:

All in all, that leads to 7 stops of exposure latitude (3 over to 4 under)! Wow, that is really good for an MFT camera – it is actually on the same level like the full-frame Sony a7S III which is using a 4 times larger (full-frame) sensor. 

The best (consumer) full-frame cameras like the Panasonic S1H or the Sony A1 manage 8 stops of exposure latitude. For reference, the ARRI Alexa Mini LF that we tested here showed 10 stops of exposure latitude (5 over to 5 under). 

So all in all pretty damn impressive results from this little sensor!!!

Awesome - that makes sense - DR is about latitude and so the over/under tests are where it's at.

Maybe the GH5 has so little DR that I've not paid much attention to the thing I didn't have! 😂😂😂

The addition of full V-Log is excellent as I'm assuming it will mean you can do severe exposure and WB changes without running into tint problems.  That has been my problem working with GH5 (and the S1) footage - when you're pushing and pulling it has these colour warps in the shadows and highlights.

9 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

At 25MP the pixel pitch is quite small so I would assume BSI would help here by increasing surface area on sensor to capture light.

Makes sense, I'll have to read a bit more about it.

6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

Also, in the official Lumix launch video Matt was talking about in the USA they will be offering free CFExpress Cards with preorders. He was very specific about telling people that the cards will support all recording formats (so it isn't some cheap card) and all FUTURE recording formats that are coming and he was hinting that there was more to come. He also misspoke about being able to shoot ProRes RAW and then caught himself.

I honestly think this camera is going to get Internal ProRes RAW recording in firmware update down the line.

A few reviewers mentioned it would get Prores RAW in a future update.  It's not something that will entice me, but seems a pretty good thing to offer now that people expect RAW from cameras at this price-point.

6 hours ago, PPNS said:

has anyone made any comparisons to what seems to me like an obvious similar product, the p4k? or has anyone tried to make anything resembling something a well lit and good looking short? or has anyone tried to record some intentful footage using cine lenses?

also expecting internal prores raw is goofy. glad they did regular prores, something that should be a bare minimum on any camera tbh

The Media Division review contains a test short near the start of their review.  It was in the tunnel they use for testing, and isn't exactly a nicely lit environment, but the footage looked pretty nice actually, so that's worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.

Also, PotatoJet filmed the talking head part of his review using the GH6, including using the AF which he said did an awesome job, and that's a nice lighting environment for skintones etc.

5 hours ago, PPNS said:

anyway the camera seems decent, but i'm not going to 'upgrade' from my p4k. 

The GH6 isn't an "upgrade" to the P4K, they're fundamentally different cameras.

People think that because they are similarly sized and priced that they're comparable, but not so - different cameras for different tasks.

4 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I honestly wish M43 cameras had more cropped sensors so you could use S16 lenses easier. Give me a 3x crop lol.

The GH5 in 4K is about a S16 crop using the ETC mode (1:1 readout), I haven't done the math but the GH6 will likely be something like that.  

The new frame guide function (that looks MUCH improved from the GH5 one which was pathetic) would help you shoot within the s16 frame if the crop was a little wide.  You'd have to crop the files in post, but that's easily done.

2 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

The extra DR provided by Boost is nice. However, if you'd like to shoot at f2.8 on a sunny day you'll need 9 stops of ND, by my calculation. My Vari-ND is a maximum of 6.

Yeah.  Just a matter of buying a fixed ND that takes the Base ISO down to the normal non-boosted DR Base ISO, then you can use your normal NDs.

I also liked that they have a new super-fast maximum shutter-speed, which may be necessary for shooting wide open in that mode in Aperture priority (how I shoot).

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

By definition Depth from Defocus (DfD) achieves focus by this pulsing of focus. I’m not sure you can completely eliminate it…except for…you know…using phase detection instead.

I didn't know if there was a way for the processor to do it computationally and then apply it to the recorded image. 

[PPNS]

15 minutes ago, kye said:

The Media Division review contains a test short near the start of their review.  It was in the tunnel they use for testing, and isn't exactly a nicely lit environment, but the footage looked pretty nice actually, so that's worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.

The GH6 isn't an "upgrade" to the P4K, they're fundamentally different cameras.

 

frankly i was a bit disappointed with that media division short, because i've seen them do much better. seemed more of a test of flailing around a gimbal in high frame rates than an actual short. i also dont think it looks very nice considering its mostly shot using available light in a tunnel and you can kinda see some nasty clipping going on occasionally (due to the change in HFR codecs and dynamic range modes i presume). 

[kye]

9 minutes ago, PPNS said:

frankly i was a bit disappointed with that media division short, because i've seen them do much better. seemed more of a test of flailing around a gimbal in high frame rates than an actual short. i also dont think it looks very nice considering its mostly shot using available light in a tunnel and you can kinda see some nasty clipping going on occasionally (due to the change in HFR codecs and dynamic range modes i presume). 

Fair enough, it was a stress test after all. I'm guessing it will look much nicer in its sweet spot.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks with the Prores in FHD and DR boost mode, which is how I'll shoot with it.  Getting the benefits of down sampling with the grain and texture retention of Prores and the full VLog capability will be an interesting mix.

I'm also keen to see what treatments there are for VLog around, both LUTs and power grades. Maybe Juan Melara will give it his Alexa matching treatment, etc.

[kye]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Cool camera. Finally a m4/3 response to the P4K from a major manufacturer that makes shooting simpler. Sure I wish it was a little cheaper... I'm a cheapskate. But it's better than the rumored price... so that's something.

If Micro 4/3 is dead... then MAN... this is an honorable way to pass.

 

Yeah, if you're set on AF then there's the OM-1 and if not then there's this.

Maybe the zombie apocalypse is actually thousands of people running around outside making films with dead-format cameras having a great time and the FF purists huddling in their fortified caves afraid that they'll get overrun by the impure hordes!

[hyalinejim]

1 hour ago, kye said:

The addition of full V-Log is excellent

It looks to me like full V-Log is only needed in this case to accommodate the extra stop in the highlights when using DR Boost. In normal V-Log the highlight clipping point is the same as V-Log L. So it might as well be V-Log L.

1 hour ago, kye said:

I'm assuming it will mean you can do severe exposure and WB changes without running into tint problems

It won't make any difference, other than giving another stop of highlight recovery when using DR Boost.

1 hour ago, kye said:

my problem working with GH5 (and the S1) footage - when you're pushing and pulling it has these colour warps in the shadows and highlights.

That's because you're using a colour correction tool that operates in a different gamma or contrast curve than the one you're shooting in. A helpful exercise that I think you'd enjoy is to shoot an evenly and constantly lit grey card at one stop increments from clipping to noise floor by adjusting shutter speed. Then extract a crop from each exposure level and distribute them horizontally in the frame. This will give you a step wedge and show you what the contrast curve of your profile looks like. Now look at this on a waveform while you attempt to do some colour balancing. You'll probably notice that, for example, the colour correction takes place mainly in the highlights and hardly at all in the shadows. That's what accounts for your difficulty in colour correcting footage with the wrong WB while avoiding colour casts. You need a colour correction tool that will evenly balance shadows, midtones and highlights. You can do this in RAW or in ACES. Maybe also the log grading tools in Resolve, I haven't checked that out.

[hyalinejim]

@kye I'm at risk of slightly derailing this thread and for that I apologise, but here's what I'm talking about

Top: WB in ACES (every stop is evenly warmed up)
Middle: reference
Bottom: WB in Lumetri (the warming correction is concentrated in the highlights)

[billdoubleu]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

With that said, like with raw video, 90% of the members of this site, do not need ProRes

Very true, and my mind is always fixated on Blackmagic's codec rather than any true RAW data collection. I feel like it's a technology that isn't getting enough respect in a Prores dominated world. It is young yet though.

I would most likely be using a flavor of h265 most of the time on the GH6. Especially having an M1 Mac makes working with those files possible.

Regardless, bottom line, the GH6 looks like one sweet picture making machine. I think my next camera is going to have to be my forever camera, and this is on the short list.

[mercer]

33 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

Very true, and my mind is always fixated on Blackmagic's codec rather than any true RAW data collection. I feel like it's a technology that isn't getting enough respect in a Prores dominated world. It is young yet though.

I haven't had the pleasure to use bRaw, but it seems like a nice codec to work with, especially if you primarily use Resolve. I'm an FCPX user, so ProRes appeals to me on that level as well.

34 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

I would most likely be using a flavor of h265 most of the time on the GH6. Especially having an M1 Mac makes working with those files possible.

My only experience with h.265 is from an old NX500 I had and the codec was torturous on my computer. I had to convert the footage to ProRes, which is fine, I've always done that anyway, but it took forever to convert. I can convert twice as much ML Raw footage to from the native MLV files to cdng to ProRes a lot quicker than I could go from h.265 to ProRes. One of my next purchases is an M1 Mac... I cannot wait. Do you have a MacBook Pro?

38 minutes ago, billdoubleu said:

Regardless, bottom line, the GH6 looks like one sweet picture making machine. I think my next camera is going to have to be my forever camera, and this is on the short list.

Haha, I hear ya. I think I already may have mine. I don't produce enough material as it is, so I really don't need another camera. Of course, I can't stop eyeballing the dropping prices of the FP, so I may have to take one for a test drive.

The GH6 looks amazing, but I couldn't justify anything over $2000 right now... or for the foreseeable future. Plus, I really like full frame.

[Video Hummus]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

One of my next purchases is an M1 Mac... I cannot wait. Do you have a MacBook Pro?

M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max will eat H265 all day everyday. It's basically a non-issue for those computers. Just get as much RAM as you can afford.

[kye]

3 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

It looks to me like full V-Log is only needed in this case to accommodate the extra stop in the highlights when using DR Boost. In normal V-Log the highlight clipping point is the same as V-Log L. So it might as well be V-Log L.

It won't make any difference, other than giving another stop of highlight recovery when using DR Boost.

That's because you're using a colour correction tool that operates in a different gamma or contrast curve than the one you're shooting in. A helpful exercise that I think you'd enjoy is to shoot an evenly and constantly lit grey card at one stop increments from clipping to noise floor by adjusting shutter speed. Then extract a crop from each exposure level and distribute them horizontally in the frame. This will give you a step wedge and show you what the contrast curve of your profile looks like. Now look at this on a waveform while you attempt to do some colour balancing. You'll probably notice that, for example, the colour correction takes place mainly in the highlights and hardly at all in the shadows. That's what accounts for your difficulty in colour correcting footage with the wrong WB while avoiding colour casts. You need a colour correction tool that will evenly balance shadows, midtones and highlights. You can do this in RAW or in ACES. Maybe also the log grading tools in Resolve, I haven't checked that out.

Yes, this is exactly the challenge I was talking about - the direct support in NLEs so they will adjust the image appropriately.

I know you said that it can be done with V-Log-L , but I don't have that and considering how old the GH5 is I didn't think that it was worth the huge asking price for the upgrade, so I'm looking forward to having that ability.

[mercer]

18 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max will eat H265 all day everyday. It's basically a non-issue for those computers. Just get as much RAM as you can afford.

Thanks, I'm hoping it can handle a 1hr. 20min. 1080p ProRes4444 timeline? Would 16gb RAM be enough?

[hyalinejim]

Have CineD slipped up again in their tests? They measured normal VLog dynamic range at ISO 800, which they maintain in the comments is base ISO despite Panasonic's specs claiming 250 as base ISO.

Has anyone seen any review vids that show base ISO in VLog?

[hyalinejim]

Never mind, Gerald Undone reiterates base of 250 in regular VLog

 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Thanks, I'm hoping it can handle a 1hr. 20min. 1080p ProRes4444 timeline? Would 16gb RAM be enough?

I have a M1 Pro 10-core CPU and 16-core GPU with 16gb of RAM and have had no problems with a 4 hour multicam timeline in ProRes 422 with each camera color corrected and motion graphics/lower thirds. I'd be very surprised if you had any issues. 

[TomTheDP]

9 hours ago, kye said:

The GH5 in 4K is about a S16 crop using the ETC mode (1:1 readout), I haven't done the math but the GH6 will likely be something like that.  

The new frame guide function (that looks MUCH improved from the GH5 one which was pathetic) would help you shoot within the s16 frame if the crop was a little wide.  You'd have to crop the files in post, but that's easily done.

 

Yeah it could be a nice camera for S16 lenses. Seems to have the best DR of M43 cameras. I do prefer when you can use the whole sensor though. A 6k or native 4k S16 camera would be neat. Pretty niche though.

The color on the GH6 looks superior to previous GH cameras and maybe even superior to the S1 series. It doesn't retain highlights as well as the S1 but the shadows look a lot better potentially. The internal prores and fast RS make it a big want for me. Maybe I can sell my S1 and get it haha.