Panasonic GH6

[projectwoofer]

7 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Wow! Is that with V-Log only or have you seen it with other profiles too? I’ll do some tests with my S5, I’m curious if I can reproduce this.

[hyalinejim]

Here's a lovely little piece with vintage cine lenses and some very nice colour:

 

 

[projectwoofer]

9 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Yeah, I quickly tested that. It is much less pronounced with HLG rather than V-Log, which is not a good choice for underexposured images anyway and only starting to be visible with 5 or more stops of underexposure. In which point the image lacks so many details and contrast that is in my humble opinion unusable anyway even without the horizontal lines. When and why would anyone want to use an image underexposed by 5 or 6 stops is beyond me to tell you the truth. Not in my use scenario...thanks for pointing this out though, it was a fun experiment!

[Mmmbeats]

11 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I noticed that as well. 

[Mmmbeats]

1 hour ago, projectwoofer said:

Yeah, I quickly tested that. It is much less pronounced with HLG rather than V-Log, which is not a good choice for underexposured images anyway and only starting to be visible with 5 or more stops of underexposure. In which point the image lacks so many details and contrast that is in my humble opinion unusable anyway even without the horizontal lines. When and why would anyone want to use an image underexposed by 5 or 6 stops is beyond me to tell you the truth. Not in my use scenario...thanks for pointing this out though, it was a fun experiment!

Over / under tests are not just literally about over and underexposing, they also give you information about what is happening at the various extremes of your normally exposed image.

For example, if a camera performs badly in over tests with colour degradation, you can reasonably surmise it is going to have difficulty retaining highlight information in a properly exposed shot. 

[projectwoofer]

2 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Over / under tests are not just literally about over and underexposing, they also give you information about what is happening at the various extremes of your normally exposed image.

For example, if a camera performs badly in over tests with colour degradation, you can reasonably surmise it is going to have difficulty retaining highlight information in a properly exposed shot. 

Ok I see, makes sense now.

[PannySVHS]

S1, S5 and S1H are low light beasts. They don´t show any mushyness because of codec mambo jumbo. A7s3 shows mushyness in very low light fi.

[webrunner5]

It does look like a darn nice camera other than the AF. It is just too bad it is priced so high. With all it has in it I think it really is worth it, but there a lot of other cameras in that price range that a good also.  

But as a Cine camera it probably is the best thing out there for the masses.

[PannySVHS]

I assume, that low light performance is very good by Mft measures. But what could be even better that it does not show the mushyness of codec compression at high isos under low light. Especially Prores should help to avoid that if implemented sufficiently, also the All-Intra and Long GOP flavours should do if as good as good implemented as in the full frame offerings from Panasonic. If it had Prores LT, 422, HQ in the other video modes already and LT in the current available modes I would start to dream about that camera right away. Good night:)

[TheDudeAbides]

This was posted already, but this is the Vimeo version, which looks better to me on screens larger than a phone.

I really think this thing is a winner. I do wish it either had that home run feature like internal nd's, or near top of class autofocus, but all in all Panasonic has done an amazing job with this camera. 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

17 hours ago, projectwoofer said:

Yeah, I quickly tested that. It is much less pronounced with HLG rather than V-Log, which is not a good choice for underexposured images anyway and only starting to be visible with 5 or more stops of underexposure. In which point the image lacks so many details and contrast that is in my humble opinion unusable anyway even without the horizontal lines. When and why would anyone want to use an image underexposed by 5 or 6 stops is beyond me to tell you the truth. Not in my use scenario...thanks for pointing this out though, it was a fun experiment!

Yeah, I haven't tested out a lot, but in general I have found at higher ISOs with VLOG (above the 4,000 second gain stage) it is just better to crank the ISO then underexpose and try to push it in post.

[sanveer]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:45 PM, Django said:

info:

Panasonic is being distinctly tight-lipped about the fabrication process, which strongly suggests the camera isn't using the Stacked CMOS technology that's underpinned the latest generation of high-end cameras. Although we don't have absolute confirmation, we think it's extremely likely to be a BSI design. The GH6's sensor, which we're told is 'not made by the company everyone always assumes we use,' features a dual output gain design. This is not to be confused with the switchabledual gain sensors we've seen in an increasing majority of modern cameras, but instead is closer to the design used in Arri and some Canon cinema cameras. The sensor has two, parallel output paths and at high ISO settings, the output from both paths is combined to give both highlight and shadow detail.

So it isn't a Sony sensor for a change(?). It wouldn't be TowerJazz Semiconductor/ Tower Semi, I am guessing, either. Like someone on some rumours blog suggested (photorumors/ 43rumors?), it's probably an ONSemi sensor. Maybe by not having 14-bit ADC and impressing it for a 16-bit image (having it limited to 12-bit, both ways, meaning recording and delivery), they could substantially reduce sensor costs, and not have a conflict of interest with Arri. Arri has like a few hundred sensors manufactured each year, and Panasonic hopes go have a few thousands, thus leveraging economies of scale and tech specs to (substantially) lower costs.

Sony does dual gain, but that's quite different. Also, I am not sure Canon supplies sensor to Panasonic (they could if they don't see issues with specific markets). I also vaguely remember Panasonic saying it's similar to Arri or something on those lines.

Interestingly, while some testers are mentioning banding lines when pointed towards lights, I though that that's something that's visible for the majority of CMOS sensor. Maybe even super fast sensors like the Z9 or A1 would have it under certain scenarios (the A9 did, I clearly remember). People seem to notice it now, because one guy mentioned it and everyone is pointing it towards flickering LED light sources now.

Maybe having different rates of lights and sensor readout acerbates the problem (use the Synchro Scan feature to figure the right frame rate and shutter speed for you?).

[sanveer]

I don't know if this has been posted before, but this review is very important from a user's perspective (IMHO). Also, he tests a lot of things, especially in comparison to many previous M43 cameras, and also the A1 (for autofocus). 

 

[kye]

9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

I assume, that low light performance is very good by Mft measures. But what could be even better that it does not show the mushyness of codec compression at high isos under low light. Especially Prores should help to avoid that if implemented sufficiently, also the All-Intra and Long GOP flavours should do if as good as good implemented as in the full frame offerings from Panasonic. If it had Prores LT, 422, HQ in the other video modes already and LT in the current available modes I would start to dream about that camera right away. Good night:)

I think there's a chance that they'll implement the other flavours of Prores in a firmware update.  They've promised to have Prores HQ in 4K and 1080p in a firmware update, and adding the other flavours would make sense at that point.

I suspect that they pushed to get the 5.7K Prores HQ in-camera for the pre-production models because it's a headline feature, so that would have been a priority.

I'm working on a Prores vs H264 test now, so depending on what I find I might be posting a new thread on it if I find something worth sharing.

[Davide DB]

Sorry guys, I really don't get you. Where are all these problems on low light?

I'm not an influencer nor an ambassador so I can only watch other people's GH6 reviews but I shot with Lumix camera underwater in though conditions since GH1.

Among the countless GH6 reviews I've been watching, this has real world examples and compares GH6 directly with Sony A7SIII. So ATM it's the only review I found which shows different camera clips side by side.

BTW this guy tests and uses a bunch of gear but basically he is a Sony A7 guys. 

Well, by his own admission, GH6 images are way better under most conditions. While images sucks for both cameras at 6400 already, GH6 surrenders to A7SIII at ISO 12800.

Repeat with me: I - S - O  1 - 2 - 8 - 0 - 0

my question is: who shoot at ISO 12800?

Hereafter some bookmarks for GH6 Vs A7SIII:

• 9:05 onwards GH6 resolution is better.
• 15:20 onwards ISO test. GH6 wins hands down up to ISO 6400.
• 27:00 onwards DR test. Again GH6 is better.

Other facts: 

• AF sucks but it's usable under some conditions.
• IBIS is the best out there.
• probably the best cheap anamorphic camera of all time.
• Tons of terrific ergonomic features for video users (as all the other GH camera)

So when I read so many rants about it, what I'm missing?

 

 

[newfoundmass]

Low light is always one of those things people complain about even though it's one of the easiest things to work around. I've never had problems with the GH5 even in concert venues and filming pro-wrestling.

[elgabogomez]

The best cheap anamorphic camera is more likely to be the z-cam e2m4 at us$1500, it records open gate 4:2:2 10 bit pro res hq internally. The gh6 in open gate is long gop and 4:2:0 in h265. Same issue the S1H has in open gate, no all i and no 4:2:2 and since the internal all i 400mbps 16:9 or 17:9 is so good, you feel like you are missing so much by going open gate.

[TomTheDP]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:19 PM, hyalinejim said:

6 stops under is dramatic but this issue shows up at 2 stops under. I have noticed in RAW its not there, even at 6 stops under its not there.

 

[webrunner5]

 

[Mark Romero 2]

8 hours ago, Davide DB said:

my question is: who shoot at ISO 12800?

I did shoot some cityscape video over the last couple of christmas seasons on the S1 and the 12,800 footage looked surprisingly good.

Of course, I haven't had time to edit any of it in to anything coherent.

But I get your point. It's a lot less common to shoot at ISO 6400 or above.