Panasonic GH6

[webrunner5]

This is Panasonic's hillbilly battery grip that is supposed to work with the GH6. I guess you are supposed to stick a V Mount battery hooked up to it up your ass. 😮 

Like my mother used to say when stuff was fucked up, "Some man must have designed it".

 

https://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/camera-accessories/camera-parts-power-battery/dmw-dcc17

[deezid]

18 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

@deezid what do you think of the GH6 1080p versus GH5 for aliasing and softness? Is it as good?

Didn't try it out yet, but sharpening is gone entirely in the 4K modes on the GH6, which now look identical to the 5.7/5.8K recordings. So 1080p may be even better, less processed looking now.

4K and especially 1080p on the GH5 had way too much sharpening applied for my taste. Glad the overprocessing is a thing of the past. 🙂

[hyalinejim]

20 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

I think I remember seeing resolution chart shots of GH5 1080p and 4k video stills

I found it! It's the "video stills comparison tool". However, they didn't test HD modes on the GH6 😞 Regardless, you can see how GH6 4k is indeed more detailed and less sharpened than GH5. But you can also see how ghastly 1080p is on the S series cameras (except for the S1H) so for me it's still unconfirmed about GH6 1080p video quality. And I like 1080p an awful lot because of the advantages of smaller file sizes and smoother editing.

[TomTheDP]

3 hours ago, deezid said:

Didn't try it out yet, but sharpening is gone entirely in the 4K modes on the GH6, which now look identical to the 5.7/5.8K recordings. So 1080p may be even better, less processed looking now.

4K and especially 1080p on the GH5 had way too much sharpening applied for my taste. Glad the overprocessing is a thing of the past. 🙂

The nice thing about the GH5 HD was that it was downsampled, aside from the sharpening it looked really really good. The S1 series used line skipping or pixel binning and the HD looks like completely garbage. I think the GH6 is not downsampling to HD either. I guess they figure people don't care or the sensor just can't do it for some reason.

[hyalinejim]

12 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

I think the GH6 is not downsampling to HD either.

😭

[kye]

I'd wait for the firmware update with the Prores for the 4K and 1080p modes.  They rushed Prores implementation on everything but the full resolution to get it out the door, so might have rushed the other aspects of the other resolutions too perhaps.

To me the GH6 is like the GH5 was for ages - half baked.  Drawing any conclusions on the camera at this point, considering Panasonics track record with these things would really say more about the reviewer than it would about the camera.

... and in reference to the video clip that everyone hated the grade on, if you're going to criticise a camera for what one person does with it, well, may as well just poke your own eyes out with a fork because you'll never see images from a camera that you'll like.  That video looked incredibly good compared to some footage I've seen shot with an Alexa!

[webrunner5]

Olympus and Panasonic top end cameras seemed to always have about 10 firmware updates on them. Not sure if that is a good thing or a rushed bad thing in the beginning? Probably a little bit of both I would guess.

Part of it is they seem to take for EVER to come out with a new model as of late.

[Mark Romero 2]

13 hours ago, kye said:

I'd wait for the firmware update with the Prores for the 4K and 1080p modes.  They rushed Prores implementation on everything but the full resolution to get it out the door, so might have rushed the other aspects of the other resolutions too perhaps.

To me the GH6 is like the GH5 was for ages - half baked.  Drawing any conclusions on the camera at this point, considering Panasonics track record with these things would really say more about the reviewer than it would about the camera.

... and in reference to the video clip that everyone hated the grade on, if you're going to criticise a camera for what one person does with it, well, may as well just poke your own eyes out with a fork because you'll never see images from a camera that you'll like.  That video looked incredibly good compared to some footage I've seen shot with an Alexa!

I think I might have just been airing my frustration in general with some of the limitations in codecs in general (on all mirrorless camera brands), and also the overuse of the term "cinematic" by youtubers with a GH6 (or a RED or an Alexa). 

I guess to me one of the big factors in making something look "filmic" or "cinematic" is how the highlights roll off, especially on the face. I can live with reduced dynamic range and blown highlights, just much prefer blown highlights that don't have that halo of supersaturated color around them. 

Of course, as you alluded, a lot of that is how well the operator sets exposure (on the face). But I know with my Sony cameras, if I used any profile OTHER than S-LOG 2, I would get nasty super saturated colors when luminesce values get near clipping. (It is slightly better on the S1 / S5 as far as I have experienced, but I almost ALWAYS use V-LOG on the S1 / S5 so I can't really say for sure that the NON v-log codecs are better than the Sony ones in this regard).

I am still totally thinking of getting a GH6. I could sell my Oly E-M1 MK II and my three sony aps-c cameras to help offset the cost a bit. But the thing is, E-M1 MK II just works. I don't ask a lot of it (just 8-bit natural profile at 30fps) using the 14-42mm kit zoom lens and it gets the job done.

It's the perfect PhD camera (Press Here, Dummy!)

I think if I got the GH6 I would spend too much time overcomplicating things :)

[hoodlum]

Bill Claff posted the sensor results from the GH6

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66095681

 

[webrunner5]

Seems pretty low, doesn't it?? That is the photo side, video usually is even worse.

[webrunner5]

Wrong button lol.

[webrunner5]

I give up lol. If you go to that site and check other cameras other than an iPhone that DR sucks ass. If really true I would not take it let alone buy it.

[hyalinejim]

Both of the contributors state that they reckon the implementation of the GH6's sensor is designed to favour video rather than photography.

Interceptor121 compared VLog dynamic range of GH6 to GH5M2 and found it favourable:

And Bill Claff of Photons on Photos found that the dynamic range in RAW stills is pretty much bottom of the barrel

 

 

[kye]

DR always gets peoples knickers in a bunch, especially when they misinterpret it!

DR is only relevant when you can compare the results of the test to other tests of other cameras.  For this, CineD seems to have the biggest back-catalogue of tests.

Their results for the GH6 are 11.0 / 12.2 stops:

but this is Prores HQ which has lots of noise:

Here is the h.265 results, which has compression suppresses noise - magically it's 11.5 / 12.8 stops:

Think the P6K will do better?  It's RAW, and has a larger sensor..  well, it gets 11.8 / 12.9 stops:

but look at the noise.....

That looks like it's got less noise than the GH6, and the 13th and 14th stops are barely peaking out from below the noise floor...   Just like the GH6!

Just to really put things in perspective, here's the Alexa Mini LF:

It gets 13.4 / 14.7 stops on the same test setup.  Their comment about it is "Quite interestingly, it’s a tiny bit less (at SNR = 2) than for the ALEXA Classic – it seems that the internal signal processing was changed a bit going even more towards a “raw” signal with less noise filtering. However, more zones are identified and 3 additional stops are buried in the noise floor."

Let's look more closely at what is going on.  This is the GH6 (from above) and the 10th stop is completely separate from the noise floor, but the 11th is touching.

and the Alexa (also from above) has the 13th completely separate, but closer than the 10th on the GH6.

So, does that mean that the GH6 is only 3 stops behind the Alexa LF?

Well, it depends on what you think a "stop" really is.  

Do you think that these stops here: 

 

are as useful as these stops here?

Maybe I'm missing something, but the 14th stop (and the fuzz slightly beyond that) seems like its not going to make much difference to anything in the real world....  

That h.265 result of 11.5 / 12.8 is the best MFT sensor that CineD have ever tested as far as I know, so that should put it in perspective.

And if you want some real perspective, this is the GH1:

If you'd paid good money for that 8th stop then you might feel a little cheated!

[webrunner5]

I have always read DR stops as if you can't see some black on the bottom of the stop it is nothing but noise. So, I see 9 stops on the GH6 and 12 on the Alexia. 10 on the BM.

If the GH1 would have had Vlog it would be pretty close to the GH6. They haven't come very far. Size matters. Hard for M4/3 to have any edge.

[kye]

7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

If the GH1 would have had Vlog it would be pretty close to the GH6. They haven't come very far. Size matters. Hard for M4/3 to have any edge.

Are you saying that the GH1 had similar DR than the GH6 does when comparing photo modes?

[webrunner5]

I would think so. It had less MP, but I doubt it has advanced that much, especially from the GH2. The GH1 came out in 2009, the Arri Alexa was in 2010, the GH2 in 2011. The Canon C100 came out in 2012 same year the Canon 1DC did. 

 We have really made hardly any advances in the basic 1080p. Sure we have 8K now and yeah, we get bit more DR because you have stacked sensors, a bit better tech. But nothing is earthshattering compared to 10 years ago other than a somewhat useless MP race. I don't think there has been a camera that had better 1080p than the C100 to this day, And the Codec was on paper crap, or better 2.7k than the original Arri Alexa.

Sure, it is somewhat better overall now, but we sure daydream and buy old cameras for a reason, and some have better DR than what we have out new now.

[hyalinejim]

Well, Mr. Claff's measurements don't stretch as far back as the GH1, but he does include the GH2. Here it is versus the GH6 and, to take a selective view, at its lowest ISO setting it is actually on a par with the the GH6:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Panasonic Lumix DC-GH6,Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2

[webrunner5]

Have you ever owned a GH2? If you look on the web you will find plenty of great pictures and I think probably better filmic footage with the hacks than the GH6 does in 1080p

My old Panasonic G7 had better looking 4K than my GH5 had to my eyes. I don't think they are going forward at all.

[webrunner5]

Stops and all of that don't mean anything, look at the Canon 1DC. 12 stops, in C Log old tech, a bloated 8 bit Codec. It was just better than they have now. Cystal clear is what they have now. My iPhone does that, a GoPro does that, Drones do that.

Sure the GH6 is better, but is it??